[sander99]

Smyth is still struggling with their mailing list(s). I did not receive updates #58 and #59 in the mail.

I guess it also means that measuring rooms should be possible directly via HDMI, without using the 16 channel outputs, otherwise it wouldn't possible to measure 24 speakers.

Not necessarely. It just wouldn't be possible to measure 24 speakers in one go using the analog outputs, but you could measure them is two groups (like it is already possible now).
Also the asynchronous measurement method could be updated to support 24 channel measurements, also no need for sweeps over HDMI out in this case.
(It would need some work on the UI, PRIR sound rooms would have to support 24 channels, of which a part would no longer be associated with analog outputs - which is irrelevant for the async method. Actually I can think of many different ways to approach the new situation, let's just see what they come up with.)

I am hoping however that the new hardware does support multi channel LPCM out via HDMI (I'll have a look at the data sheets), but then the next question still would be: is Smyth going to do anything with that?

 

[sander99]

Unfortunately I can not post comments on the A16 kickstarter comments page, but I want to react to the following comment there:

Thierry JEAN-AMANS about 4 hours ago
This obligation of change is not normal (use of an obsolete component) and is the result of the loooong delivery time. We are now faced to the request to pay €497 to get the update when we already have the A16 (ie we are first time backers). This is UNFAIR and SCHOKING.
I fear that if we do not make the hardware update, we have a product that will never receive any software update or bug correction. Again this is not acceptable.
There is only one solution : make the hardware update free for your backers who have already suffered from your delay.
I expect a fast answer. Is it too much to ask ?
Best Regards

I'll just write my reaction here, maybe he reads it.

In an ideal world it would be nice if your wish would be fulfilled. But you do realise that Smyth probably already makes a loss at the kickstarter price? You do realise that as a backer you got your A16 for an incredible low price? (Even if the new retail price was not the original plan, still it is true.) And how do you propose Smyth should execute this plan of yours: delay the remaining orders - and the other work that still has to be done to get DTS X and Auro 3D - for another year while upgrading all units that have already been shipped out? Look, I agree that everything that has happened is far from ideal, but it is what it is, and Smyth is doing it's best to get us all our A16's, even if their planning and communications leave a lot to be desired. They could have decided long ago to just go bankrupt or something like that and leave us all out in the rain, but they are hanging on. And what exactly are you complaining about: you got your 16 channels of Atmos, as promised. So the "lucky" ones who are still waiting will get eARC and 8 extra channels (for single user only) bonus, additional, an extra that we never anticipated in the first place. Yes, you don't have your DTS X and Auro 3D yet but that holds for all of us. They are saying in the update that they will continue working on firmware for both hardware versions so I don't see a problem there. Yes, that will be a bit of extra work for Smyth, but apparently they consider it doable and as far as I can tell that seems logical (if they organise this cleverly, seperating the common stuff from the version specific stuff, and parameterize some parts).

 

[Fox1977]

I received another email this afternoon saying “You will receive the new updated A16 at the end of this month.”
Now I’m wondering if I will be asked for an extra fee. It’s not mentioned though...

Gilles actually corrected a mistake he made. The upgraded A16 will still be labeled A16 and not A16S.

 

[You Gene]

According to the French importer (email update, the 2nd today) :

- the new hardware is to be delivered in Paris in May 2020 in one and only shipment for his orders only
- this is going to be for him a one shot opportunity considering that only the required number of new hardware (new decoding card) will be ordered. No way later on to change your mind if you have the old version.
- there is always the possibiltiy ( no certainty) of a new hardware update in the future considering the evolution of electronics.
- he is going to Ireland next week for a training course regarding this modification
- the update are not free of charge for them (fees to pay for licenses, new hardware and work hours)
- there is no way to change the cards by yourself

Just to keep you informed in those changing times.

 

[raband]

There goes the idea that they had all the hardware etc in stock/on hand and were only needing to assemble the units

 

[phoenixdogfan]

One of my A-16s is on its way back for repair also. James readily agreed to update it with the new hardware. Despite all the communications issues and delays, my experience with Smyth customer support, after receiving my units, has been first rate.

I'm wearing a big smile about this as well.

 

[Got the Shakes]

I actually emailed James expressing interest in updating the HDMI board in my A16. It would actually solve an issue I thought I would be running into at some point this year once HDMI 2.1 consoles and graphics cards start shipping.

I’m planning on buying a new LG OLED with HDMI 2.1 from my C8 with 2.0. I worried though that if I ran those through my A16 I’d be missing out in the video/gaming features offered by HDMI 2.1. An A16 with eARC would solve that in theory though as I could run the new consoles through the 2.1 ports of the LG OLED and then use eARC to send Atmos or uncompressed audio to the A16.

 

[kh36267]

I actually emailed James expressing interest in updating the HDMI board in my A16. It would actually solve an issue I thought I would be running into at some point this year once HDMI 2.1 consoles and graphics cards start shipping.

I’m planning on buying a new LG OLED with HDMI 2.1 from my C8 with 2.0. I worried though that if I ran those through my A16 I’d be missing out in the video/gaming features offered by HDMI 2.1. An A16 with eARC would solve that in theory though as I could run the new consoles through the 2.1 ports of the LG OLED and then use eARC to send Atmos or uncompressed audio to the A16.

my thinking as well. i would prefer to switch inputs on my TV between devices and keeping the one eARC cable to the A16 vs. constantly switching inputs on the A16 (which is not the easiest to view from a distance).

 

[Got the Shakes]

my thinking as well. i would prefer to switch inputs on my TV between devices and keeping the one eARC cable to the A16 vs. constantly switching inputs on the A16 (which is not the easiest to view from a distance).

Yeah. At first I didn’t think too much of it and then I realized it would futureproof the A16 for my use and potentially make my setup a bit easier to navigate.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Another question for the community. Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro 3D are object based codecs. Does this mean that the codec will place the virtual speakers at the precise location called for by the standard of the particular codec. For example. will a Ltf be placed in an Atmos sound field at a determined location regardless of where the original speaker was located in the original room where the a PRIR was measured?

If so, is it really necessary, for example, to elevate the speakers measured for top speakers? This could obviously be quite important for capturing PRIRs. I realize the 7.1 speakers from the legacy codecs will have to be in the right place for proper capture; but the top speakers? Since they only are offerred on the new formats so is it possible to just create them by re-measuring the floor standers and labeling them with top speaker labels for analog outputs 9-16?

I suppose someone could argue that a Ltf has a distincitive ambiance which would not be captured by this method, but I kind of think that when you have 16 speakers, you want the "ambience" to come from the direct output of the surround speakers, rather than the contribution of the room. The offshoot of this being that speakers witth the narrowest dispersion and most consistent directivity will be the best for this kind of multichannel output.

 

[audiohobbit]

A speaker to be measured HAS to be at the spot where it has to be according to Dolby whitepaper for example. Relative to your head of course.
You perceive the direction of the sound arriving at your ear because of your individual HRTF. (even in an anechoic room)
So a Ltf speaker to be measured has to be in the left top front position relative to your head. There is no way you can move another speaker virtually to another direction.

The advantage of the Realiser is the term "relative to your head". For example a front speaker can be measured as a side surround speaker when you rotate your head or yourself to the side so that this speaker is to the side of you.

 

[mrmac]

Wow! After all this long silence from Smyth, they out of the blue announce a mayor hardware update. I can't help but wonder what's the reason for this... I always thought all the Kickstarter and preorder units are already assembled and lying on there shelves ready for shipping. If so this means replacing 100's of boards... That feels like this is something they are "forced" to do for some undisclosed reason. They even called this situation an "upheaval". I'm sure some backers will be disappointed if they just received the "old" version, and missed this by a nose...

Question for this brain pool! What is the truth with the scalability of home version of Atmos? Scalable as in any track can be expanded to 34 channels (the true maximum for the home version (24.1.10)). In my experience virtually every blu ray I watched recently max out at 7.1.4. I have struggled to find any conclusive data on this. Some Dolby white papers state that it is scalable, but some content is defined as 7.1.4., and you get no sound out of wides and all of the top speakers. So is it depending on the track? Is some tracks scalable and some not...? If most Atmos tracks were to be truly scalable this would be a worthy upgrade, but currently I feel the wides are hardly used...

I'm a bit worried about the statement "a limited-time return-to-factory upgrade service". Why do they have to limit the timeframe on this? Since content beyond 9.1.6 is scarce, I feel no rush to do this upgrade, but I would absolutely like to have this as an option for the future. Wouldn't it be easier for the Smyth's to do some of these upgrades once the mayor dust settles and all the preorders are sent out.

I'm a long time projector user and since have currently no use for eARC. But If the TV is the "hub" with all the accessories connected to it (like in Smyth's example), why don't modern TV's have a dedicated HDMI output (for sound) that can connect to an AVR, soundbar etc. I though eARC was just needed when the TV was the endpoint but you wanted sound back to the AVR, a sort of two way connection if you will.

Anyway, I'm super glad that Smyth is still very much working on improving an already incredible device. I find it audacious and shows they mean business. Just fingers crossed that this upgrade will be available in the future and that firmware updates will not be to delayed because of this.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Wow! After all this long silence from Smyth, they out of the blue announce a mayor hardware update. I can't help but wonder what's the reason for this... I always thought all the Kickstarter and preorder units are already assembled and lying on there shelves ready for shipping. If so this means replacing 100's of boards... That feels like this is something they are "forced" to do for some undisclosed reason. They even called this situation an "upheaval". I'm sure some backers will be disappointed if they just received the "old" version, and missed this by a nose...

Question for this brain pool! What is the truth with the scalability of home version of Atmos? Scalable as in any track can be expanded to 34 channels (the true maximum for the home version (24.1.10)). In my experience virtually every blu ray I watched recently max out at 7.1.4. I have struggled to find any conclusive data on this. Some Dolby white papers state that it is scalable, but some content is defined as 7.1.4., and you get no sound out of wides and all of the top speakers. So is it depending on the track? Is some tracks scalable and some not...? If most Atmos tracks were to be truly scalable this would be a worthy upgrade, but currently I feel the wides are hardly used...

I'm a bit worried about the statement "a limited-time return-to-factory upgrade service". Why do they have to limit the timeframe on this? Since content beyond 9.1.6 is scarce, I feel no rush to do this upgrade, but I would absolutely like to have this as an option for the future. Wouldn't it be easier for the Smyth's to do some of these upgrades once the mayor dust settles and all the preorders are sent out.
I always thought all the Kickstarter and preorder units are already assembled and lying on there shelves ready for shipping
I'm a long time projector user and since have currently no use for eARC. But If the TV is the "hub" with all the accessories connected to it (like in Smyth's example), why don't modern TV's have a dedicated HDMI output (for sound) that can connect to an AVR, soundbar etc. I though eARC was just needed when the TV was the endpoint but you wanted sound back to the AVR, a sort of two way connection if you will.

Anyway, I'm super glad that Smyth is still very much working on improving an already incredible device. I find it audacious and shows they mean business. Just fingers crossed that this upgrade will be available in the future and that firmware updates will not be to delayed because of this.

"I always thought all the Kickstarter and preorder units are already assembled and lying on there shelves ready for shipping" Obviously this development belies that theory, but, then again, so did the fact that they didn't just ship all their outstanding orders in a quick month or so after they determined to release the product.

 

[GeorgeA]

Another question for the community. Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro 3D are object based codecs.

To the best of my knowledge, Auro 3D for home is not object based whereas the other two immersive formats are. Have a look at the attached photos, which reflect my speakers’ setup while rendering decoded Dolby Atmos and Auro-3D signals.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

A speaker to be measured HAS to be at the spot where it has to be according to Dolby whitepaper for example. Relative to your head of course.
You perceive the direction of the sound arriving at your ear because of your individual HRTF. (even in an anechoic room)
So a Ltf speaker to be measured has to be in the left top front position relative to your head. There is no way you can move another speaker virtually to another direction.

The advantage of the Realiser is the term "relative to your head". For example a front speaker can be measured as a side surround speaker when you rotate your head or yourself to the side so that this speaker is to the side of you.

Yes, I suppose the point is less how the room is influencing the speaker and more how and to what degree your head blocks or allows access to its direct sound, depending where in relation to your head its sound is propogating from.