[J.Villain]

Yup, communications is a real problem. People and companies survive all kind of disasters if they get out in front of it. That isn't the case here. How much better would this have gone down if they had changed the tone and maybe posted a couple of pictures of all the boards they got. Maybe a picture of the head tracker samples. Gave us an update on when the compliance testing is going to begin. Maybe a story about creating the BIR for a studio that will be available though the exchange. Lots of things they could have done that would take very little effort.Not their style I guess.

 

[cachi]

It might be possible that Smyth has partnered with private investors and therefore cannot divulge so much detail as it would be strictly forbidden under most capital investor agreements. I don't think the kickstarter contract requires any exclusivity with its backers

 

[illram]

I think they just don't want to get people's hopes up with delivery dates given they have been unrealistic/wrong in the past. It appears a lot of things are out of their control (when certification is going to be done, when parts they source to other factories are returned in a satisfactory state, etc.).

Sometimes there just isn't much new to report. "Still waiting on all the stuff we were waiting on 2 weeks ago."

 

[Fox1977]

People can understand that crap happens and that there can be delays, but 1) in this case, bad news is better than no news or evasive news 2) when you reach nearly one whole year of delay, you think that they are professionals, they knew that may 2017 was an impossible date to achieve the A16. They are not newbies in the business, and it sounds more like a "trick" to convince more backers that they wouldn't have to long to wait to get something for the money they invested.
Had they given a "Spring 2018" release date, they probably would have got significantly less than 330 backers.
With a transparent and regular communication, there would be much less frustration.

 

[musicday]

I think the original number of backers is indeed 330 but i do also believe there have been many other units sold during the campaign. I believe their advertising is not the best and who has heard the A16 around 90% have ordered one?
Anyway let's wait for other news , hopefully won't take as long as last time.
And many photos of the actual units will be very appreciated.
One can hope

 

[esimms86]

I think the original number of backers is indeed 330 but i do also believe there have been many other units sold during the campaign. I believe their advertising is not the best and who has heard the A16 around 90% have ordered one?
Anyway let's wait for other news , hopefully won't take as long as last time.
And many photos of the actual units will be very appreciated.
One can hope

The best news here is that they have committed to bringing a completed A16 to CanJam LA on April 7th. I read this to mean that the most significant holdup, firmware and UI development, will be in their rear view mirror by that date. This, of course, does not mean that A16’s will begin shipping by then. However, keep in mind that they plan to begin assembly of A16’s sometime in mid to late February. Incidentally, it would be great for Smyth to provide an update in early March in which they also posted pictures of assembled A16 stock.

While I would be thrilled to have an A16 in my hands by the end of March, I also realize(no pun intended) that it is also possible that I will not see my unit until sometime in May. That would be a relative disappointment but it would quickly be forgotten once I eventually finally began to enjoy the final product. I believe we are in the home stretch here(tomorrow is February 1st, after all) and I anticipate that Smyth will be giving shipping dates to people attending CanJam LA 2018.

 

[462429]

...
There is no LPCM digital output via HDMI on the 867 as there is on the Oppo 103, which is why I tap the 8-channel preamp analog audio outputs of the 867 instead, to feed the A8 via discrete 8-channel analog input.
...

You probably know that Oppo can handle ARC too. In such solution I see two benefits for your system - ARC avoids additional DA/AD conversion and also, Oppo gets direct connection to the TV.

Previous update: (under UI info)

We hope to have completed the core measurement and playback components by the end of December, allowing us to begin the Dolby and DTS compliance testing in January.

This update:

The user interface for the A16 is still under construction. We’re estimating a working version will be ready in about 3 weeks. Some of the firmware routines may also need to be re-written after the UI is complete.

Seems even the "short term" goals are having troubles.
...

I think this comment is essential and I give it my 'like'.
So, promises and new shipping dates don't have their meaning any more.

 

[dsperber]

You probably know that Oppo can handle ARC too. In such solution I see two benefits for your system - ARC avoids additional DA/AD conversion and also, Oppo gets direct connection to the TV..

I don't have the TV connected directly to the Oppo, because I have multiple A/V sources (provided through the 867 AVR) and only wanted a single HDMI cable (for video only) going to the Panny which is wall-mounted and the cable run is through the wall and is probably 17 feet from the AVR area. So it's the HDMI cable from the AVR, not from the Oppo, which feeds video-ARC HDMI2 on the Panny. Hence why the Oppo feeds its HDMI1 output to the AVR for video-only and its HDMI2 output to the A8 for audio-only.

And of course, this is an A8 which doesn't have built-in decoding, and it also only has one HDMI input. Hence why my arrangement required the use of the 8-channel analog inputs to serve as my way of supporting two conceptual audio inputs to the A8. I understand about the extra D/A conversion for ARC-audio going on in the Yamaha in order to feed its analog preamp outputs, and then an A/D conversion conming back into the A8. I agree, it would be nice to avoid that, say if the A8 (or A16) had TWO HDMI INPUTS.

To be honest, in my original attempted equipment setup back in 2013 when I got the Panny and 867 and HDMI-enabled A8, I actually had the A8 in-line directly from the Oppo's HDMI1 output, and then used the A8's HDMI output to relay on to the Yamaha, which then relayed its own HDMI1 output to the Panny. Theoretically that should work, if the in-line A8 input/output functionality worked. However because of an obvious HDMI handshake incompatibility, for some reason the audio capabilities of all devices downstream from the Oppo were not being correctly communicated such that the Oppo was not correctly advised that it could send out multi-channel digital audio over HDMI. Instead, it was obligated to only send 2-channel stereo (as if it had been connected to a TV which only had 2 speakers and could not handle or accept DD5.1 digital audio). So the audio received from the headphones connected to the A8 (which was being fed only 2-channel stereo from the Oppo) was only 2-channel LPCM stereo, not the correct discrete multi-channel LPCM.

After discussing this with Smyth (and Lorr Kramer was at my house at that moment, and he was surprised and embarrassed about the HDMI handshake incompatibility with the Yamaha AVR, resulting in the downgrade by the Oppo so as to only deliver 2-channel stereo via HDMI), we decided to reconfigure things to let the A8 get audio-only via HDMI2 of the Oppo and be the "end" of that HDMI chain, and feed video-only from the Oppo via HDMI1 to the Yamaha. At that moment I hadn't even thought to consider ARC and how to provide that type of audio (from the Panny) through the A8 as well.

Note that I only have this extra HDMI vs. analog concern for streaming apps that are only on the Panny and not also on the Oppo, as that is the only situation in which ARC would be used. This includes Amazon and Hulu, as Netflix and YouTube are available through the Oppo. For Netflix and YouTube I use the Oppo, and its HDMI audio to the A8.

 

[Richter Di]

Yup, communications is a real problem. People and companies survive all kind of disasters if they get out in front of it. That isn't the case here. How much better would this have gone down if they had changed the tone and maybe posted a couple of pictures of all the boards they got. Maybe a picture of the head tracker samples. Gave us an update on when the compliance testing is going to begin. Maybe a story about creating the BIR for a studio that will be available though the exchange. Lots of things they could have done that would take very little effort.Not their style I guess.

So true!

People can understand that crap happens and that there can be delays, but 1) in this case, bad news is better than no news or evasive news 2) when you reach nearly one whole year of delay, you think that they are professionals, they knew that may 2017 was an impossible date to achieve the A16. They are not newbies in the business, and it sounds more like a "trick" to convince more backers that they wouldn't have to long to wait to get something for the money they invested.
Had they given a "Spring 2018" release date, they probably would have got significantly less than 330 backers.
With a transparent and regular communication, there would be much less frustration.

I am not sure I would have backed it! I believed them when they said May 2017. I thought, finally some guys who know what they are doing on Kickstarter.
You know who delivered? Some Australian guys creating a not so easy battery driven Nesspresso machine: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/xsprofix/xsprofix-first-portable-lithium-battery-espresso-m
And when they where only a few weeks behind schedule they paid customs for everybody. So nobody who got their product had to go to customs. All prepaid!

 

[462429]

...
I agree, it would be nice to avoid that, say if the A8 (or A16) had TWO HDMI INPUTS.
...

Don't forget the fact that you can multiply Realiser's or/and Oppo's HDMI input by means of simple HDMI switcher.

 

[dsperber]

Don't forget the fact that you can multiply Realiser's or/and Oppo's HDMI input by means of simple HDMI switcher.

Aargh! Another potential HDMI handshake issue to contend with.

I've inserted these in the past trying to utilize assorted setups, and inevitably the fact that the end-to-end path includes an additional device, which may or may not be on an "open" or "closed" path, means that the power-on sequence of the assorted devices really complicates things. And in the end exposure to the same basic problem might still occur, of the source device simply deciding that the end device (as it is determined to be) cannot accept multi-channel audio, and it still shuts down to 2-channel stereo. Still a gamble.

Honestly, the quality of the D-to-A conversion done in the Yamaha AVR, and the quality of the A-to-D conversion done in the Realiser... they're excellent. Would I prefer eliminating these extra two conversions and running pure HDMI? Sure. But again, the A8 does not have its own built-in decoders so that it must be fed its HDMI input in already-decoded discrete multi-channel LPCM, which the Yamaha AVR cannot put out as the Oppo can. Hence using an HDMI switcher with the A8 isn't really an option with the AVR one of the HDMI sources.

Perhaps when the A16 arrives I will give an HDMI switcher another shot.

 

[462429]

Aargh! Another potential HDMI handshake issue to contend with.
...

I have three devices on my Oppo's back HDMI input (HDMI switcher) and it works good. I only take care that the two inactive devices are shut off.
But, let me return to my initial proposal which is without HDMI switcher. Now I express it more precisely:
Make your Oppo the center of your system and not Yamaha. Let Oppo process everything (including ARC signal from your Panny's streaming apps and the signal from your external device) and send PCM to the Realiser (via HDMI2) and video direct to Panny (via HDMI1). Use your Yamaha as an amplifier only, by sending analog 5.1 audio from Oppo's analog outputs (via analog cables), if possible - direct to the power amp stage, which is possible thanks to the Oppo's software ('variable') volume control. If you don't have loudspeakers system, you don't need Yamaha at all.

 

[dsperber]

I have three devices on my Oppo's back HDMI input (HDMI switcher) and it works good. I only take care that the two inactive devices are shut off.
But, let me return to my initial proposal which is without HDMI switcher. Now I express it more precisely:
Make your Oppo the center of your system and not Yamaha. Let Oppo process everything (including ARC signal from your Panny's streaming apps and the signal from your external device) and send PCM to the Realiser (via HDMI2) and video direct to Panny (via HDMI1). Use your Yamaha as an amplifier only by sending analog 5.1 audio from Oppo's analog outputs (via analog cables), if possible - direct to the power amp stage, which is possible thanks to the Oppo's software ('variable') volume control. If you don't have loudspeakers system, you don't need Yamaha at all.

Hmmm... interesting suggestion. I do now understand how using the Oppo and HDMI switcher dealing with INPUT to the Oppo's external HDMI input(s) would completely eliminate the use of the Realiser's analog inputs, and let the Oppo handle everything and still feed decoded LPCM audio out HDMI2 to the one HDMI input of the A8.

Of course without video going from the Yamaha to the TV there isn't any way to see onscreen display for configuration of the AVR. on the rare occasion when that is needed. There is that little screen on the front of the unit, but it's nothing like the GUI which would otherwise be displayed on the TV.

I actually do use the Yamaha (in "party mode", which down-mixes the multi-channel main input (HDMI or analog) audio into 2-channel stereo and puts it out ZONE 2, with its own separate volume control) as a power amplifier for my two external speakers, when I just want to casually listen to non-critical TV show sound via speakers rather than "serious watching/listening" of multi-channel HDTV or disc/streaming movies through the A8 and headphones. Actually, I use the Oppo to do the down-mixing of the multi-channel audio into 2-channel stereo going out its L/R analog outputs, which then feeds the main L/R analog inputs of the Yamaha (no other main inputs are connected, so that the Yamaha is really just passing through the 2-channel stereo down-mixed by the Oppo). The ZONE 2 2-channel analog output of the Yamaha then goes in/out of my DBX 14/10 EQ to provide my "full-range analog tone control" for the speakers.

But I do now see how it wouldn't change anything as far as my 2-speaker situation (which still would be feeding the Yamaha 2-channel stereo from the L/R of the Oppo), to reconnect the TV directly to the Oppo HDMI1 output instead of from the Yamaha. And this definitely would eliminate the analog use of the A8 and stay always HDMI into the A8 no matter if even using ARC from Panny to the Oppo. The only issue really is loss of the Yamaha's OSD configuration, since it's no longer connected to the TV.

 

[462429]

...
The only issue really is loss of the Yamaha's OSD configuration, since it's no longer connected to the TV.

If you don't have free HDMI inputs on the TV for the Yamaha, in those rare occasions, when you configure the AVR, you could manually switch the end (actually, the beginning) of the TV's HDMI cable from Oppo's to Yamaha's output for a moment.

 

[sander99]

If you don't have free HDMI inputs on the TV for the Yamaha, in those rare occasions, when you configure the AVR, you could manually switch the end (actually, the beginning) of the TV's HDMI cable from Oppo's to Yamaha's output for a moment.

Or even just add a composite video cable if the Yamaha and the TV both still support that. Bad picture quality doesn't stop you from reading the On Screen Display.