[sahmen]

The update was posted on Kickstarter. It is identical to the email.

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...al-3d-audio-headphone-processor/posts/2044034

Thanks. Incidentally, I just received the update from James Smyth this morning too. So I hope I have got my name on the right mailing list now.

 

[esimms86]

Thanks. Incidentally, I just received the update from James Smyth this morning too. So I hope I have got my name on the right mailing list now.

Also if you had a PRIR made for you at one of the shows I hope they can find it in their database.

 

[sahmen]

Sahmen, I get the feeling you possibly misunderstand something here. As if you are thinking the filter-information (PRIR) is somehow moved to the Yarra. Just to make it absolutely clear: this is not the case. The A16 does what it always does, generate a 2 channel signal using the PRIR, the 2 channel signal goes to the Yarra (via spdif, analog stereo or stereo over HDMI), and the Yarra does not do any binauralisation (in this case, using it with the A16), it only beams 1 channel to the left (and only the left) ear, and the other channel to the right (and only the right) ear effectively replacing the headphones. (Although the channel-seperation will not be as perfect as with headphones, but good enough for it's purpose). As a consequence, the limitations of the Yarra's decoding capabilities are unimportant, because the A16 does the decoding and the binauralisation all formats that the A16 can handle, all upmixing of the A16, and up to 16 simulated speakers (on every conceivable position, at the ceiling, on ear level, on the ground if you wish, just measure it where you want it) are possible.

You're right. My understanding of who does what in the A16/Yarra interface was somewhat "cross-wired," and thanks for setting that straight. I guess the success of this operation will hinge on the Yarra's ability to beam out to the ears, all the decoded and binauralised signal information that it is receiving from the A16, without actually doing any of the decoding and binauralizing on its own. I'm assuming (without being sure of it) that the Yarra would have a setting that allows its own decoding/binauralizing functions to be bypassed in this way, but is there anything in the available literature about Yarra that speaks to how well it can sonically project within its beaming technology such signal information that it has not natively decoded or binauralized? I am guessing not, but I am intrigued and am willing to wait to find out how well the Yarra will do in this particular role, and whether it would not act as if it has "bitten more than it can chew" so to speak.. By the way, I appreciate your insight about possible imperfect channel separation in the Yarra's rendering of the A16's signals, and hope that is the only issue one would have to contend with.

By the way, I did order the Yarra, in spite of my uncertainties. Since I have more than two listening stations, I figured I can still redeploy it to work in standalone mode in another system if it does not play as nice working with the A16 as I am expecting it to. Either way, no harm will be done.

 

[sahmen]

Also if you had a PRIR made for you at one of the shows I hope they can find it in their database.

Unfortunately, I have not had any PRIRs made ever, and that is one of the sources of concern I currently have, living as I do in Western Massachusetts. I would gladly go to any nearby suitable studio or brick and mortar store that is equipped to take such PRIR measurements (and by "nearby," I mean anywhere within reasonable driving distance, either within Massachusetts itself, or in any of the neighboring States), but I have no clue where to turn as yet.

There ought to be a way to find out online where to go for such measurements, but exactly where does one go to look for such things?

Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Erik Garci]

I'm assuming (without being sure of it) that the Yarra would have a setting that allows its own decoding/binauralizing functions to be bypassed in this way, but is there anything in the available literature about Yarra that speaks to how well it can sonically project within its beaming technology such signal information that it has not natively decoded or binauralized?

The Yarra's own decoding/binauralizing is automatically bypassed when it receives a 2-channel signal from another device such as the Realiser. The beamforming performs just as well whether the 2-channel signal was produced by the Yarra's own decoding/binauralizing or by another device. In other words, the beamforming does not care where the 2-channel signal came from. However, the Yarra's own decoding/binauralizing might be tuned/optimized to sound better as a generic/non-personalized HRTF as opposed to the Realiser's personalized HRTF.

 

[Erik Garci]

There ought to be a way to find out online where to go for such measurements, but exactly where does one go to look for such things?

Any thoughts or suggestions?

The Realiser Exchange Directory will supposedly have a list of local studios.

Or you can make a PRIR on your own even with just one speaker.

 

[esimms86]

Unfortunately, I have not had any PRIRs made ever, and that is one of the sources of concern I currently have, living as I do in Western Massachusetts. I would gladly go to any nearby suitable studio or brick and mortar store that is equipped to take such PRIR measurements (and by "nearby," I mean anywhere within reasonable driving distance, either within Massachusetts itself, or in any of the neighboring States), but I have no clue where to turn as yet.

There ought to be a way to find out online where to go for such measurements, but exactly where does one go to look for such things?

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Ironically, I live in Southeastern Massachusetts. I had my PRIR done last year at CanJam New York 2017. Assuming that Smyth and company show up at the next CanJam NY 2018, you'll hopefully be able to get one done there. BTW, it's scheduled for February 17th and 18th which hopefully(fingers crossed!) is within a few weeks of when the A16 begins to ship to Kickstarter backers. Oh, and CanJam is a blast!

Esau

P.S.
- At CanJam NY 2017 the Smyth brothers were scheduled every 10 or so minutes to prepare PRIRs using a 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos setup with Yamaha powered monitors. The Yamahas do not in any way represent the Holy Grail of speaker systems but they are very good and highly enjoyable. Erik Garci is also correct in stating that, once you get a handle on the PRIR making process and with a little patience, you can make your PRIR using a single speaker and moving it around between measurements.

 

[illram]

You can also download pro measurements and for a fee mix them with your own measurement (done with whatever speaker you have lying around).

My understanding is if you utilize your own speaker(s) the virtualization will sound like that speaker, i.e. if it's a crappy little tweeter you will have a 7.1 virtual system of crappy little tweeters...hence the service provided where they mix your measurements with a good sounding system.

 

[J.Villain]

Unfortunately, I have not had any PRIRs made ever, and that is one of the sources of concern I currently have, living as I do in Western Massachusetts. I would gladly go to any nearby suitable studio or brick and mortar store that is equipped to take such PRIR measurements (and by "nearby," I mean anywhere within reasonable driving distance, either within Massachusetts itself, or in any of the neighboring States), but I have no clue where to turn as yet.

There ought to be a way to find out online where to go for such measurements, but exactly where does one go to look for such things?

Any thoughts or suggestions?

As others have suggested, if you can get them done at Can Jam that is probably your best bet.

If you do some simple testing at home with just some cheap speakers or even in your car just to get the process down then the world is your oyster. Once you know how it is done Google is your friend. "Massachusetts recording studios", "Massachusetts home theater" etc. See what comes back and start sniffing around their web sites. Finding an hour in a decent stereo recording studio should be pretty easy. Finding an hour in a 5.1 post studio or high end home theater dealer with an in store theater or listening room should be a challenge but doable if your determined. What is going to be a bear for most of us is finding rooms with more than 5.1. Hence I suggest you make plans for Can Jam at least as a backup if you can.

While I think the Smyths will find some places willing to do them in the big cities in the US and maybe a few countries in Europe, they are a small team and the world is a big place. I am expecting once the A-16 is out the Smyth crew or dealers will be hitting a lot more of the audio shows.

 

[sander99]

In a 5.1 studio you could create PRIRs for more channels too with the usual tricks. For example turn your chair 180 degrees and measure the front left and right speakers now as being your surround back speakers. Also you could turn it 90 degrees right and measure the fronts as being the left wide and left (side) surround speakers and similar for the other side. And for getting height channels look down at the appropiate angle in front of the front speakers etc.

 

[Lamerhouse]

if someone does not know him here is the folder in Dropbox with PRIR A8 free for various tests and various rooms anyone who wants to share his PRIR always happy
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wipepbk9pbcpyeu/4O-sO6ivtM

 

[anach]

if someone does not know him here is the folder in Dropbox with PRIR A8 free for various tests and various rooms anyone who wants to share his PRIR always happy
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wipepbk9pbcpyeu/4O-sO6ivtM

That's very kind, thanks for sharing!

 

[462429]

... I guess the success of this operation will hinge on the Yarra's ability to beam out to the ears, all the decoded and binauralised signal information that it is receiving from the A16, without actually doing any of the decoding and binauralizing on its own. I'm assuming (without being sure of it) that the Yarra would have a setting that allows its own decoding/binauralizing functions to be bypassed in this way, but is there anything in the available literature about Yarra that speaks to how well it can sonically project within its beaming technology such signal information that it has not natively decoded or binauralized? I am guessing not, but I am intrigued and am willing to wait to find out how well the Yarra will do in this particular role, and whether it would not act as if it has "bitten more than it can chew" so to speak.. By the way, I appreciate your insight about possible imperfect channel separation in the Yarra's rendering of the A16's signals, and hope that is the only issue one would have to contend with. ...

The Yarra's own decoding/binauralizing is automatically bypassed when it receives a 2-channel signal from another device such as the Realiser. The beamforming performs just as well whether the 2-channel signal was produced by the Yarra's own decoding/binauralizing or by another device. In other words, the beamforming does not care where the 2-channel signal came from. ...

S. Smyth once wrote:
"... virtual loudspeakers will not sound good when played over real loudspeakers because your loudspeakers create a second convolution. The effect of two convolutions is to make the audio sound like you are listening inside a cave."
How to understand this statement in the context of the expected Realiser-Yarra cooperation?

 

[sander99]

S. Smyth once wrote:
"... virtual loudspeakers will not sound good when played over real loudspeakers because your loudspeakers create a second convolution. The effect of two convolutions is to make the audio sound like you are listening inside a cave."
How to understand this statement in the context of the expected Realiser-Yarra cooperation?

There is one aspect of the use of the A16 with the Yarra that has not really been talked about here before (although for example Erik Garci mentioned something that is related to this: the fact that there already is in-front localisation because the Yarra is in front of you, and if you turn your head the Yarra is still in the same position so for sounds intended to come from the front head-tracking is not needed).
Because the Yarra stands in front of you, a neutral sound coming from the Yarra wil reach your ear HRTF filtered by your own head and outer ear. But the Realiser will already have done this filtering as part of the simulation so it is done kind of double. But maybe that is not a problem: this extra filtering effect can be compensated for with the HPEQ! just do a HPEQ measurement with the Yarra looking straight forward, and select this HPEQ when using the Yarra with the A16. Only reflexions/reverberations that originate from the Yarra's sound will not be compensated for. If this would spoil things after all? Let's hope not too much.
[Edit: Smyth maybe was talking about normal speakers without beamforming, then of course the cross talk would be "double" too]

 

[Erik Garci]

S. Smyth once wrote:
"... virtual loudspeakers will not sound good when played over real loudspeakers because your loudspeakers create a second convolution. The effect of two convolutions is to make the audio sound like you are listening inside a cave."
How to understand this statement in the context of the expected Realiser-Yarra cooperation?

Typical loudspeakers add crosstalk (each ear hears both channels). The Yarra is different in that it uses beamforming to prevent this crosstalk (left ear hears left channel only, and right ear hears right channel only, similar to headphones).