Smyth Research Realiser A16

[arnaud]

Quick feedback on my first foray with the A16 today:
- unit arrived this week (kickstarter #63) with 2 headtrackers per order
- i could hook it up to my 2019 imac (osx mohave) through USB (installed the driver which made it recognized as 16 channel sound card)
- i could load my aix prirs (A8 files) and store fine
- i could make an hpeq of my verite headphones although I had to adjust hp and mic gain settings a bunch of times (and never could get the signal to be green for the whole sweep)
- I had the latest firmware installed when I received the but an older firmware in the micro-usb card when I loaded the prirs files from aix
- I am not sure if the realiser automatically looked for this firmware but fact is that, as I had setup automatic firmware update upon bootup option, a firmware update occured when I started the unit
- i did not pay much attention to the firmware versions and copied the latest firmware to usb , went through the manual firmware update process just to be sure before proceeding with trials
- i also disabled the firmware update check on startup since it probably makes little sense

Trial 1 (mac USB out):
- i was able to test 5.1 and 7.1 speaker layout using the midi control panel on the mac (each speaker was properly virtualized after I set the output channels)
- however there was no way to store the speaker layout settings (it always defaults back to 2.1)
- as a result of this, I was never able to playing a multichannel stream properly through USB input in the realiser (any channel beyond 2.1 was messed up, played each on L/R or mix or none of them)
- i tried many different dolby test tracks (5.1, 7.1, 9.1.x etc) but all failed the same
- I tried multiple settings using itunes, vlc, and quicktime players, none worked

Trial 2 (mac hdmi out through an owc thunderbolt 2 dock):
- The mac realised a 1080p device was connected through hdmi (it would switch the display resolution)
- However, I could never get the audio stream to be picked up by the realiser
- I tried bistream and pcm, various encodings to no avail, this thing doesn’t work as advertised...

Trial 3 (blu ray, and atv connected to realiser through hdmi, hdmi passthrough to the tv):
- I could finally play movie from atv but with major lip sync issue (dolby room)
- I need to play more with this but it’s going to be near useless without some lipsync feature
- Interestingly though, I then tried a blue ray with a 5.1 DTS HD soundtrack and, while I expected it would not play, it actually rendered fine through ... dts room?
- even more interesting, there is no noticeable delay there.
- Could it be that the BR play is decoding the dts stream and sending that as pcm through hdmi because the realiser does not accept dts bitstream?
- Furthermore, does it mean the bulk of the delay I notice is coming from the decoder in a16 rather than the convolution engine?
- only issue I have now with this is lack of audio passthrough which is a major pita as I certainly would prefer not to have to buy an AV receiver just for that...

I hope the experts perusing this thread may have suggestions or ideas

arnaud

 

[arnaud]

Other issue I forgot to to mention:
- the 5.1 sound track plays fine on my 5.1 aix prir
- however, the speaker solo mode does not work for the 2 surround channels (never get any sound out of them)
- same behavior with input signal or test mode
- on the other hand, I can isolate the 7.1 channels fine when using the 7.1 aix prir...

 

[sander99]

- Could it be that the BR play is decoding the dts stream and sending that as pcm through hdmi because the realiser does not accept dts bitstream?

Most likely yes, others have noticed the same.

- Furthermore, does it mean the bulk of the delay I notice is coming from the decoder in a16 rather than the convolution engine?

(copy paste) Most likely yes, others have noticed the same.

- however, the speaker solo mode does not work for the 2 surround channels (never get any sound out of them)

The A16 distinguishes between surround speakers (used for 5.1) and side surround speakers (used for 7.1), for one of the two pairs you first have to assign solo keys.

I've "resolved" this by assigning two unused keys to Ls and Rs for SOLO key assignment, so that I can now hear those two side speakers in my 5.1 PRIR.

 

[audiohobbit]

There are Mac USB Drivers for download on the Smyth page. Did you try these?

With HDMI as you see, a normal player works fine. So it's more a problem of the Mac, or the Mac in combination with the Realiser and maybe the cable also.
HDMI itself is often pita...


I did not recognize any difference in lip sync between Dolby and PCM. That's a bit strange. The whole lipsync thing is strange.
I got it on the list of missing features, maybe I put it on top and stress the need for this next time I send the mail to Smyth.
Although I still don't know if they even read it...

Seems that I'm lucky about the lipsync thing, I have no issues so far. I'm using a player with lipsync setting and my projector seems to have a great delay in video because of processing.

Few pages before on this thread I remember a report about a strange delay and I think Smyth said that this had to do with presets not properly loaded or speakers in the preset from an earlier setting not entirely deleted or anything like that, can't remember correctly, but should be gone with the new FW? So maybe you try to reassign all the loudspeakers in the preset again.

 

[Chillzone21]

Quick feedback on my first foray with the A16 today:
- unit arrived this week (kickstarter #63) with 2 headtrackers per order
- i could hook it up to my 2019 imac (osx mohave) through USB (installed the driver which made it recognized as 16 channel sound card)
- i could load my aix prirs (A8 files) and store fine
- i could make an hpeq of my verite headphones although I had to adjust hp and mic gain settings a bunch of times (and never could get the signal to be green for the whole sweep)
- I had the latest firmware installed when I received the but an older firmware in the micro-usb card when I loaded the prirs files from aix
- I am not sure if the realiser automatically looked for this firmware but fact is that, as I had setup automatic firmware update upon bootup option, a firmware update occured when I started the unit
- i did not pay much attention to the firmware versions and copied the latest firmware to usb , went through the manual firmware update process just to be sure before proceeding with trials
- i also disabled the firmware update check on startup since it probably makes little sense

Trial 1 (mac USB out):
- i was able to test 5.1 and 7.1 speaker layout using the midi control panel on the mac (each speaker was properly virtualized after I set the output channels)
- however there was no way to store the speaker layout settings (it always defaults back to 2.1)
- as a result of this, I was never able to playing a multichannel stream properly through USB input in the realiser (any channel beyond 2.1 was messed up, played each on L/R or mix or none of them)
- i tried many different dolby test tracks (5.1, 7.1, 9.1.x etc) but all failed the same
- I tried multiple settings using itunes, vlc, and quicktime players, none worked

Trial 2 (mac hdmi out through an owc thunderbolt 2 dock):
- The mac realised a 1080p device was connected through hdmi (it would switch the display resolution)
- However, I could never get the audio stream to be picked up by the realiser
- I tried bistream and pcm, various encodings to no avail, this thing doesn’t work as advertised...

Trial 3 (blu ray, and atv connected to realiser through hdmi, hdmi passthrough to the tv):
- I could finally play movie from atv but with major lip sync issue (dolby room)
- I need to play more with this but it’s going to be near useless without some lipsync feature
- Interestingly though, I then tried a blue ray with a 5.1 DTS HD soundtrack and, while I expected it would not play, it actually rendered fine through ... dts room?
- even more interesting, there is no noticeable delay there.
- Could it be that the BR play is decoding the dts stream and sending that as pcm through hdmi because the realiser does not accept dts bitstream?
- Furthermore, does it mean the bulk of the delay I notice is coming from the decoder in a16 rather than the convolution engine?
- only issue I have now with this is lack of audio passthrough which is a major pita as I certainly would prefer not to have to buy an AV receiver just for that...

I hope the experts perusing this thread may have suggestions or ideas

arnaud

Other issue I forgot to to mention:
- the 5.1 sound track plays fine on my 5.1 aix prir
- however, the speaker solo mode does not work for the 2 surround channels (never get any sound out of them)
- same behavior with input signal or test mode
- on the other hand, I can isolate the 7.1 channels fine when using the 7.1 aix prir...

Was regretting not getting in early on the kickstarter for the A16, but after seeing all the issues, glad to be still using the A8 trouble free for so many years. Everyday it still blows my mind, awesome audio quality.

 

[arnaud]

Thank you @audiohobbit and @sander99 , I’ve checked the issues and wish list, great job there!

I’ve given up on trying to use mac (I don’t use it to watch movies anyhow so this was more out of curiosity).

On the other hand, with no AV receiver atm, putting the A16 between the sources and the TV has been a bit disruptive. As workaround to the lack of audio passthrough on HDMI, I finally figured out how to make use of AV mode. It’s still a very very clunky solution as we then only get audio through the analog outputs so I can no longer make use of the digital e.q. i had going for my 2 channel system.

It would have been so much more intuitive so simply allow the bypass of convolution engine when in « speaker mode » and simply redirect the stream to analog and digital outputs (downmix to stereo for the headphone out, downmix (or not) to analog and digital outs according to the listening mode selected.

Another question: has anyone tried to use a camera (or is it AV actually) adapter for ipad to pass audio to the realiser? I know the reputation of these adapters is terrible at best on apple store and I’d prefer to get feedback from a user to avoid wasting money on this.

cheers,
Arnaud

 

[arnaud]

I forgot to mention about the source selection... The kids are mad at me because it’s such a convoluted mess to change input source. At this stage between this, lack of audio passthrough, delay with dolby decoding / lack of dts decoding, you’re much better off attacking the realiser from a receiver that takes care of source selection, decoding and routing of audio to regular speaker system.

Basically, I think of the A16 as and A8 with atmos support. The rest of features (decoding, usage as AV processor) are wishful thinking as of today’s firmware...

Cheers,
Arnaud

 

[bcwang]

Thank you @audiohobbit and @sander99 Another question: has anyone tried to use a camera (or is it AV actually) adapter for ipad to pass audio to the realiser? I know the reputation of these adapters is terrible at best on apple store and I’d prefer to get feedback from a user to avoid wasting money on this.

cheers,
Arnaud

I haven’t tried that one specifically but can tell you the hdmi adapter for the iPad works. I’ve used it to listen to tidal without having to power on the tv so I can enjoy music with virtual stereo speakers.

 

[sander99]

On the other hand, with no AV receiver atm, putting the A16 between the sources and the TV has been a bit disruptive. As workaround to the lack of audio passthrough on HDMI, I finally figured out how to make use of AV mode. It’s still a very very clunky solution as we then only get audio through the analog outputs so I can no longer make use of the digital e.q. i had going for my 2 channel system.

It would have been so much more intuitive so simply allow the bypass of convolution engine when in « speaker mode » and simply redirect the stream to analog and digital outputs (downmix to stereo for the headphone out, downmix (or not) to analog and digital outs according to the listening mode selected.

You have a 2 channel "real speaker system"? It is possible to switch the headphones outputs (including the corresponding optical and coaxial spdif outputs) to normal (non SVS processed) stereo mixdown. Then you can connect one of those headphone spdif outputs to your 2 channel system.
See the manual 10.4.7 Stereo (mixdown).
In short:
AV mode must be disabled AND stereo (downmix) should be enabled.
Go into the Stereo Mixdown menu (see Figure 10-27 page 89) to check the settings there. (Channels should be turned on, levels something like you see in Figure 10-27).
After that you can switch between SVS processing and normal stereo mixdown with the speaker icon key and the headphone icon key (that normally - when AV mode is enabled - are used to switch to and from AV mode).
(But I am a bit lost now on where to find all above settings in the menu structure, I don't have my A16 yet so I can not fiddle around to get familiar with it...)

 

[Eich1eeF]

I forgot to mention about the source selection... The kids are mad at me because it’s such a convoluted mess to change input source. At this stage between this, lack of audio passthrough[...]

For more efficient source selection, you can get a Logitech Harmony or similar remote control that handles all that. Considering audio pass through, I've recently acquired a second hand HDFury Vertex, which can extract the audio on a separate HDMI link.

Another question: has anyone tried to use a camera (or is it AV actually) adapter for ipad to pass audio to the realiser? I know the reputation of these adapters is terrible at best on apple store and I’d prefer to get feedback from a user to avoid wasting money on this.

If you just want audio, have you considered any of the various audio interfaces that support i-devices?

 

[audiohobbit]

Yes stereo mixdown would be a solution (can be found in the Preset-Settings for User A) but then the Realiser must always stay on when more or less doing nothing.
I'd recommend a simple HDMI-splitter/switch though.

For more efficient source selection, you can get a Logitech Harmony or similar remote control that handles all that.

I don't see how a Logitech Harmony will help in selecting inputs on the Realiser. I doubt that Logitech does have the remote codes by now. Anyone checked their database?

 

[arnaud]

@sander99 , thank you again for being so helpful! And that’s without the unit in your hands, I can’t believe this

The stereo mixdown worked after I set the levels and feed to channels per the figure you mentioned and got it working.

I started to discuss with the wife it’s about time to replace our 12 y.o. Lcd TV with the olympics next year and the kids watching tv now and then. No luck so far though lol. I’ve been longing for an oled for years but been waiting for the A16 and compatibility issues to settle. Looking at the LG C6, I notice it can work just fine as a source selection and I’d pass the audio through to the A16. I need to find better arguments than olympics because the wife and kids don’t care about that though lol.

One hypothetical question though, could I expect atmos signal to pass through (say from a hdr player or atv 4k connected to the LG) to the A16? E.g. if I understood previous comments correctly, what will happen is that atmos will passthrough but through a lossy DD+ protocol because the A16 does not support eARC? How about DTS HD and other higher quality soundtracks?

cheers,
Arnaud

 

[AppleheadMay]

How many people have been getting their Realisers so far?
Anyone from the preorders yet?

 

[audiohobbit]

Roundabout 70 KS backers + a handful of regular buyers that paid the full price.
No preorders so far as I know. Looks like they start delivering the preorders after the KS backers. So mid next year maybe...
(IF they have enough units.. At least as a preorder you can hopefully get your money back when they can't deliver. As KS backer no chance)
Nobody knows how many pre-ordes they have.

 

[Fox1977]

Roundabout 70 KS backers + a handful of regular buyers that paid the full price.
No preorders so far as I know.

Actually, since shipping started, the french preorders who went through Gilles Gérin have been receiving there units little by little. I don't know exactly how many got theirs, but i'd day roughly 10-12.