[Sordel]

  Would the A16 properly emulate the sound of a subwoofer? And how would that work exactly?
 
Would it EQ a headphone like the HD800 (which does not have that much bass) to have the appropriate amount of bass that the subwoofer is outputting in a particular speaker setup?

Clearly the A16 cannot make headphones generate a frequency that is below (or above) the physical capacity of the headphone to produce. I think that your guess is right, in that the A16 will effectively eq the headphone so that it is able to produce a frequency range that reflects the actual system being modelled, but for a true audiophile frequency response you could always use a subwoofer in tandem with the A16: either output from your amp/player or ... am I right in remembering that the A16 actually has a subwoofer out??
 
In any case, when you take your readings I imagine that you have two options: to do them with the subwoofer connected or not. Much the best approach would seem to me to do the settings with the subwoofer off so that the A16 only ever models the sound in the audible range, without having do calculations for subsonic (and close-to-subsonic) bass. In that event the A16 would never even "hear" the subwoofer so the question wouldn't arise: but you'd have to remember to set your bass crossover so that the speakers were pushing as much of the audible spectrum as possible. (I have my crossover set quite high normally so that my sub shares some of the work with my small surround speakers.)

 

[Danz03]

I think even if the headphones could generate very low bass frequencies it wouldn't have the same impact as real speakers would, and it doesn't look like it that the A16 has a specific subwoofer out.
 
I'd use the SubPac S2 (I have the M2, but don't think it's as good as the S2 personally) for LFE, it gives great physical bass impact while keeping it quiet. Bass frequencies lower than 80Hz is mostly omni directional and shouldn't affect the surround soundstage.
 
Quote:

 
Clearly the A16 cannot make headphones generate a frequency that is below (or above) the physical capacity of the headphone to produce. I think that your guess is right, in that the A16 will effectively eq the headphone so that it is able to produce a frequency range that reflects the actual system being modelled, but for a true audiophile frequency response you could always use a subwoofer in tandem with the A16: either output from your amp/player or ... am I right in remembering that the A16 actually has a subwoofer out??
 
In any case, when you take your readings I imagine that you have two options: to do them with the subwoofer connected or not. Much the best approach would seem to me to do the settings with the subwoofer off so that the A16 only ever models the sound in the audible range, without having do calculations for subsonic (and close-to-subsonic) bass. In that event the A16 would never even "hear" the subwoofer so the question wouldn't arise: but you'd have to remember to set your bass crossover so that the speakers were pushing as much of the audible spectrum as possible. (I have my crossover set quite high normally so that my sub shares some of the work with my small surround speakers.)

 

[Fox1977]

 

I'm interested in getting the Subpack S2 to add the extra bass sensations that will be missing with the A16. I hear that it's superior to the M2.
Yet, the S2 is supposed to be strapped to a chair, but i generally watch movies from my couch. Even if i was managing to strap the S2 on it (which doesn't seem to be doable), i would have to pretty much seat still on it during the whole movie if i want my back to stay in contact with it. However, i like to move, sit, sometimes lie down, etc.
My question is then the following : could I be strapping the S2 on myself somehow as if it was the M2, and wouldn't it be uncomfortable to use it if i'm half lying on my couch ?

 

[Danz03]

Hmmm, it's a little bit more complicated than that.

Actually I have the S1, not the S2, but I think the pads are more or less the same, the amp and controllers are different. I don't strip mine on to the chair, I just put it on my chair and sit back on it. The problem is, like subwoofers and speakers, the heavier they are and more firm the floor they are on the better and stronger the bass. You can strap the M2 as firm to your body as possible but it still doesn't have anything solid and fixed to lean against. Whereas the weight of your body leaning on the S1/2 against the back of the chair will give you the max bass impact. The M2 is also lighter and thinner, probably for practical reason, so I don't find it very comfortable nor great in producing very low and punchy bass. But then, I'm sure many ppl are quite happy with the M2 since it's their flagship product. Best if you could try them out before you purchase if mobility is your priority. I guess you will feel the sub bass even if you're lying on the S1/2 on your couch

The main problem I find with the SubPac products are their amps. I'm not a big amp person myself but the SubPac headphone amps are really terrible, even my iPod nano's is a 100 times better; they are hissing and low quality sounding. So it helps if you have a headphone amp that have 2 headphone outs and you can have one for your phones and one for the SubPac. Hope it helps.

I'm interested in getting the Subpack S2 to add the extra bass sensations that will be missing with the A16. I hear that it's superior to the M2.
Yet, the S2 is supposed to be strapped to a chair, but i generally watch movies from my couch. Even if i was managing to strap the S2 on it (which doesn't seem to be doable), i would have to pretty much seat still on it during the whole movie if i want my back to stay in contact with it. However, i like to move, sit, sometimes lie down, etc.
My question is then the following : could I be strapping the S2 on myself somehow as if it was the M2, and wouldn't it be uncomfortable to use it if i'm half lying on my couch ?

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I have the S2, and I have never listened to my LCD X's of my SD Modded HD 800 through subpacs amp.  Instead, you need to use a $8 splitter, to split the signal out of your amp.  One end of the line out goes to the Subpac, and one end goes to the headphones.  Works great, no need to EVER use subpacs headphone amp, ever.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I use the subpac on my Ikea Poang chair back, where is strap it on, and I use it while lying in bed.  Works great either way. The main thing, since it moves your torso forward, is to put an extra pillow under  your head, so it's suppored and you neck is not strained.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Using Out of Your Head, and EQing my HD800 for flat bass response with Sonarworks, I find they can output the infrasonic material in 128 Harps by Four Tet, over my subpac S2.
 
I doubt the A16 will be unable to output the infrasonic component, and EQ'd, with a tactile sub, an HD 800 or Audeze LCD, or HiFi man, or any other quality headphone should be flat to below 20 hz.

 

[Hugo S]

Hi,
 
FWIW in the above mentioned HCFR interview (in English) of Stephen Smyth concerning the A16, Stephen specifically talks of how bass frequencies and the LFE channel can be reproduced with the A16, eventually with a tactile device, see here (time codes 55:40 -> 1:03:22) :
 
https://soundcloud.com/hcfr-podcast/hcfr-le-podcast-tech-v32-entretien-avec-stephen-smyth
 
Hugo

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Sounds like a job for the SubPac.

 

[Hugo S]

In our case Subpac S2 + HD800S (& balanced amp via Aune X7S/XP1).
 
Hugo

 

[Evshrug]

I don't know... "rumble chairs" have always seemed like a gimmick to me. I have felt sound pounding at my chest, fun to feel the beat but usually I only felt it when the music was painfully loud. I haven't tried the subpac or buttkicker, but so far feeling a motor vibrating at my back has not recreated anything that makes my brain think of a "sonic experience." I usually end up turning rumble chairs off.

 

[darinf]

I don't know... "rumble chairs" have always seemed like a gimmick to me. I have felt sound pounding at my chest, fun to feel the beat but usually I only felt it when the music was painfully loud. I haven't tried the subpac or buttkicker, but so far feeling a motor vibrating at my back has not recreated anything that makes my brain think of a "sonic experience." I usually end up turning rumble chairs off.

I've had a SubPac S1 for a long time and use it with our software.
 
The thing about these tactile devices is that they are not all the same. The "rumble chairs" as you mention are not good. The problem is that they pretty much just vibrate your chair. But the Subpac doesn't just vibrate, it has actual frequency response. You can "feel" the frequency response rather than just shaking the chair. You could actually follow a bass-line, etc. That is a huge difference as far as I am concerned. With the SubPac levels adjusted low enough, it really enhances the experience for both music and movies. When done right, it's very effective and believable.
 
-Darin

 

[travis-bickle]

I've had the subpac s2 and m2 for direct comparison at home. for me the m2 has the same or better response, not just rests on the low back like the s2, no constant correction of the seating position because it is strapped to your back, feels more ergonomic or comfortable and of course you have the possibility to use it for vr.
either of them will let you come a giant step closer to silent cinema perfection

 

[phoenixdogfan]

As Darin pointed out, the real trick in using the SubPac is turning the volume down, so the device doesn't call attention to itself.  If you achieve the correct volume setting, it just seems like you have the extra octave of bass you would experience in a speaker based system with good sub woofers.

 

[Hugo S]

  As Darin pointed out, the real trick in using the SubPac is turning the volume down, so the device doesn't call attention to itself.  If you achieve the correct volume setting, it just seems like you have the extra octave of bass you would experience in a speaker based system with good sub woofers.

 
IMO in an A16 context (aka multi channel Atmos type of reproduction with headphones) a SubPac shouldn't be used above 30Hz or maybe 40Hz max as above that, the tactile effect would become subjectively distractive, as it would become non coherent with the "precision" perceived through the headphones.
 
Singularly with what Stephen said concerning the global coherence of how bass frequencies will reproduced by the A16.
 
Just my 2cts... 
 
Hugo