[Oggranak]

I am now not sure what sibilance means... are we talking about when there seems to a be a piercing/harsh emphasis on some frequency in the treble? If that's the case, I think it's a bit of both. My DT770s and DT880s are far more harsh in this respect than my DT48Es, which never sound like that. On the other hand, some tracks have more of it than others. I find that "The View" by Modest Mouse has a bit of that and Pearl Jam's stuff has a bit of that as well, whereas stuff like Radiohead and Talk Talk have very little.

Is that what we're talking about? I thought we were talking about that background hiss noise present in some tracks, which was why I blamed it solely on the recording...

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Time /img/forum/go_quote.gif Coincidentally, I was listening to one free internet radio station earlier and was hearing way too much sibilance. I switched to a different station and the same song was playing, but the sibilance was gone.

That's Optimod, man.

 

[rhythmdevils]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglejo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I meant to direct that Grizzy Bear question to rhythmdevils.

show was great! It was their last show for this North American tour, they were off to europe next, so there was a sense that they were putting a lot into it. Sounded a bit different than the album, a little less organic, but all the harmonies were there, and they rocked out pretty hard

 

[k3oxkjo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's Optimod, man.

Should have bought the Omnia...

 

[xkRoWx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oggranak /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am now not sure what sibilance means... are we talking about when there seems to a be a piercing/harsh emphasis on some frequency in the treble? If that's the case, I think it's a bit of both. My DT770s and DT880s are far more harsh in this respect than my DT48Es, which never sound like that. On the other hand, some tracks have more of it than others. I find that "The View" by Modest Mouse has a bit of that and Pearl Jam's stuff has a bit of that as well, whereas stuff like Radiohead and Talk Talk have very little. Is that what we're talking about? I thought we were talking about that background hiss noise present in some tracks, which was why I blamed it solely on the recording...

It's the pronounced "S", "Sh", "Z", and "Ch" sound from singers. Usually these consonants are produced via the small "tunnel" your form with your teeth and tongue.

Apparently these consonants are found within 5kHz to 10kHz. If a 'phone is "sibilance", these's a spike in this general area of the frequency response graph.

I personally think there's gotta be sibilance in every recording, it's normal. If two different headphones outputting the same source, gear and volume shows different level of sibilance, then the headphone is to blame.

 

[Max F]

Don't most recordings of singers who are naturally sibilant go through some type of "De-essing"?

I once had a sibilance problem in my speaker setup. It got to a point where I was blaming the recordings for the problem. Turned out it was a glass toslink cable i was using causing the problem. I have not idea why. Changed it out with a better (but plastic) one and problem was gone.

I think people just blame the recordings. If this was really a problem wouldn't you think that engineers are very aware of this and try to prevent it? I'm guessing that it is a problem for some singers and they do correct for this. I'm not an expert by any means though.

While some say that a piece of equipment is "revealing" the sibilance it could be that it is actually just "emphasizing" this frequency (mid-upper treble).

 

[Donald North]

Some microphones have a peak around 10kHz in their frequency response, causing a sibilance emphasis.

At the same time, I know some people who naturally talk with very strong S-es, which isn't the most pleasant on the ears.

 

[intoart]

I have never heard headphones that make everything (or even most things) sound sibilant.
I have heard recordings that sound sibilant on nearly all headphones.
Yep, it's the source!

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max F /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't most recordings of singers who are naturally sibilant go through some type of "De-essing"? I once had a sibilance problem in my speaker setup. It got to a point where I was blaming the recordings for the problem. Turned out it was a glass toslink cable i was using causing the problem. I have not idea why. Changed it out with a better (but plastic) one and problem was gone. I think people just blame the recordings. If this was really a problem wouldn't you think that engineers are very aware of this and try to prevent it? I'm guessing that it is a problem for some singers and they do correct for this. I'm not an expert by any means though. While some say that a piece of equipment is "revealing" the sibilance it could be that it is actually just "emphasizing" this frequency (mid-upper treble).

Sibilance occurs naturally. Engineering a solution would fundamentally change the performance. And since it is natural, sibilance doesn't bother me and I do not "blame" it on headphones, recordings, etc.

Because sibilance occurs naturally, hating it is sort of like hating the sound of a banjo. Then it would be like a banjo-hater playing banjo CDs and writing indignant posts about how his super-expensive new headphones make sounds like a banjo even though he hates banjo while listening to banjo records.

If you don't like sibilance, buy headphones that roll off the highs. You can also use a graphic equalizer or build a notch filter to de-emphasize a certain range. Another option is to simply avoid recordings that have sibilance.

If you want to know whether a headphone measures flat, there are ways to find out and graphs available. If a headphone is peaky in the treble, you probably shouldn't buy it in the first place.

 

[rhythmdevils]

I think we may be talking about different things. If there's sibilance in a recording, I notice it as pronounced "ssssss" and on very rare ocasion, something that is piercing/painful.

It seems to me, that if painful sibilance was mainly the recording, you would hear different forms of it. One recording, it would be in the upper mids, others more in the treble, for other recordings, a certain electric guitar, on others, it's the flute, yadda yada.

But most of the sibilance I hear, each individual headphone (or amp, same idea) sounds painfully sibilant in the same spot. The sr125 sounds painfully sibilant in the same range of sounds, over and over. And the Audio Technicas, it's a different note that jumps out, over and over, on a wide range of different recordings, including beautiful ones. That tells me it's the phones, because it's not really changing for different recordings. I'm surprised I seem to be the only one with that opinion! Where's the anti-K701 crowd?

edit: maybe I'm talking about harshness...

 

[intoart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhythmdevils /img/forum/go_quote.gif And the Audio Technicas, it's a different note that jumps out, over and over, on a wide range of different recordings, including beautiful ones.

Our experiences are clearly different, then. The only traces of harshness or sibilance I have ever heard on either of my ATs come from badly mastered recordings. Good recordings sound absolutely flawless on them in every possible respect.

 

[ph0rk]

There are mics that control sibilance, and many engineers spend a lot of time taming sibilance in recordings (it still may sound sibilant, but it won't be a +12 dB sibilant like it originally was).

Headphones with a peak in the 8-10k region and an untamed sibilant recording can be a recipe for pain.

 

[johnwmclean]

I’m hearing sibilance with these recordings, from a vocal standpoint:

Diana Krall - Live in Paris
Katie Melua - Piece by Piece

I’m hearing no sibilance from these recordings again only focusing on vocal:

Rebecca Pidgeon - The Raven
Sara K - What Matters

The microphone, engineer and also an artists style of vocal can influence sibilance, Diana Krall surprised me - sounds like she’s almost eating the microphone, way to close for my tastes.
On the other hand Sara K, What Matters is probably one of the best vocal/recordings I have ever heard, it’s so utterly natural, - this is really good.

 

[robm321]

Whether sibilance is in the recording or not, headphones and speakers should present it with a smooth sound. It should not be harsh. The spike in the frequency response graph for the HD800 and GS-1000 both show that sibilance gets exaggerated.

 

[johnwmclean]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whether sibilance is in the recording or not, headphones and speakers should present it with a smooth sound. It should not be harsh. The spike in the frequency response graph for the HD800 and GS-1000 both show that sibilance gets exaggerated.

I disagree, if it’s in the recording - let’s have it. Let good/bad recordings sound there utter best/worst. Truth be told, with NO smoothing.