[ac500]

What thread is this referring to the HD700 everyone is talking about? I'd like to know. All I've seen is a thread talking about some random picture which nobody has any clue where it came from.

 

[bcasey25raptor]

Quote:

Well I have at least three confirmations that it sounds different for other people: the review from tape op Magazine (which reports more bass), Miceblue that seems to like the improved soundstage, and R-audiohead who said it sounded worse (but at least acknowledging there's a difference ). If you don't seem to notice a difference, well there are probably some rational explanations : the form of your skull, or of your ear canals, or whatever .... The fatigue I was experiencing was enough annoying to prefer the hd595 (which can be sometimes quite boring), until I found  the "positioning fix" .
 
@Blue Boat
I didn't like the pig look of the miceblue pics either. I thought that was cooler.

The next  battle : hd700 vs srh1840 (the hd700 are coming too, according to a thread).

Placebo is a Bi+ch
 
 

 

[extrabigmehdi]

Quote:

What thread is this referring to the HD700 everyone is talking about? I'd like to know. All I've seen is a thread talking about some random picture which nobody has any clue where it came from.

Hum.... I realize that the rumor regarding the hd700 has started in 2006 ...  But I'm expecting anyways,  a new model from sennheiser, I can't understand why they would only update the hd595 to hd598 (and the hd555 to hd558).
 
Quote:

Placebo is a Bi+ch
 
 

I spent enough time with the dsp trying to fix everything I didn't like  (insufficient soundstage, treble spike,  too revealing highs), to be 100% sure that's it not placebo. It's just like the audioengine a2 speakers, positioning affects the sound.
Moreover, the difference is enough obvious to not be placebo.

 

[Blue Boat]

Quote:

I spent enough time with the dsp trying to fix everything I didn't like  (insufficient soundstage, treble spike,  too revealing highs), to be 100% sure that's it not placebo. It's just like the audioengine a2 speakers, positioning affects the sound.
Moreover, the difference is enough obvious to not be placebo.

Umm... 
 
Speakers are a totally different matter. 
 
Re: Audio Myths http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ
 
Different placement may cause slight changes in sound. Increase in clamp force may cause slight changes in sound. Besides, it's not difficult to fall in love with something you came up with. I'm just gonna go off on a tangent and say this: Differences in cables may be obvious, but are they due to expectation bias or due to there being a real change in sound? 
 
 
Dun dun dunn..
 

 

[R-Audiohead]

Quote:

Well FR graphs represent magnitude, not quality. The Sennheiser HD 280 Pro show much more flat down to 0hz than HD650s even, yet HD650s and SRH940 sound vastly better in bass, and I really doubt the HD 280 Pros can produce very strong bass at all. But while HD650s sound vastly better quality than HD 280 Pros, the HD 280 Pros are indeed much flatter -- however the FR curve is not as smooth. I think a smooth FR seems to produce a "refined" sound, or at least that's my theory. But just a different shape FR tells you almost nothing about sound quality, but rather the hardware equalization essentially being performed.
 
I think someone needs to find a way to play a high quality FLAC signal through a headphone, measure the output, and compare it with the source digital audio signal. Of course it would need to be analyzed carefully accounting for phase shifts etc. that might throw off the results, but it shouldn't be impossible to arrive at a good analysis of overall sound quality in any desired area simply by seeing how close the headphone reproduces a given REAL WORLD sound signal. Rather than synthetic square waves and single sine waves.

I think I have quoted you before saying I have wondered why this hasn't been the standard.  I'll do it again   Nice bit!
 
 

 

[R-Audiohead]

Quote:

Well I have at least three confirmations that it sounds different for other people: the review from tape op Magazine (which reports more bass), Miceblue that seems to like the improved soundstage, and R-audiohead who said it sounded worse (but at least acknowledging there's a difference ). If you don't seem to notice a difference, well there are probably some rational explanations : the form of your skull, or of your ear canals, or whatever .... The fatigue I was experiencing was enough annoying to prefer the hd595 (which can be sometimes quite boring), until I found  the "positioning fix" .
 
@Blue Boat
I didn't like the pig look of the miceblue pics either. I thought that was cooler.

The next  battle : hd700 vs srh1840 (the hd700 are coming too, according to a thread).

 
Just FYI, my only comment was regarding the ears being half out of the cup and I didn't make any comments regarding perceived FR.  I said it wasn't ergonomic and I refused to wear a headphone that way because if that is how it has to be worn to get the sound right, someone screwed up.
 
Your more recent post showing the cup position change and tilted headband may be a more realistic position to try.  Might have to give this a shot.
 
 

 

[Blue Boat]

@post 2743
 
Sine waves are not some abstract signal created in a lab. They’re the primary building block of all sounds we hear. Analogies would be a single color of light or a pure chemical element from the periodic table. All the colors we perceive are combinations of individual wavelengths of light. And everything we experience in the physical world is made up of elements from the periodic table. And, in much the same way, music is just a collection of sine waves. A perfect sine wave is a single pure tone and has no distortion of its own. It's the most pure component of sound. 
 
Quoted from Voldemort. 

 

[Lorspeaker]

denon D2000/7000 supposed to be worn in position B...
( if u look at the "denon" word on the cups )

 

 

[ac500]

Quote:

@post 2743
 
Sine waves are not some abstract signal created in a lab. They’re the primary building block of all sounds we hear. Analogies would be a single color of light or a pure chemical element from the periodic table. All the colors we perceive are combinations of individual wavelengths of light. And everything we experience in the physical world is made up of elements from the periodic table. And, in much the same way, music is just a collection of sine waves. A perfect sine wave is a single pure tone and has no distortion of its own. It's the most pure component of sound. 
 
Quoted from Voldemort. 

I understand the importance of sine waves in math and physics. The solution to "d^2 x / dt^2 = -x" illustrates how fundamentally important they are.
 
But actually, that description you posted is an excellent example of why sinewaves are the worst to test a headphone with. Anything can produce a sinewave, since it's literally the simplest thing to reproduce. When all other frequencies are eliminated, suddenly you have a lot less to worry about in terms of sound reproduction.
 
Let me put it this way. Take any headphone and so a simple frequency sweep, 20 hz - 20 khz using pure sinewaves. I guarantee you, other than detecting maybe some sound signature features, you would have no clue whatsoever the difference between a mediocre headphone and a great one, listening to a simple frequency sweep alone.
 
In other words, "d^2 x / dt^2" is not a simple linear function in real life, and this is directly due to the design of the driver as well as the acoustic housing. 
 

 

[Blue Boat]

Quote:

Let me put it this way. Take any headphone and so a simple frequency sweep, 20 hz - 20 khz using pure sinewaves. I guarantee you, other than detecting maybe some sound signature features, you would have no clue whatsoever the difference between a mediocre headphone and a great one, listening to a simple frequency sweep alone.
 

Measurements are taken from the entrance of the ear canal. You can tell dips and peaks from a simple sine sweep. You don't depend solely on FR graphs because all they show is how "loud" a certain frequency is produced. The "loudness" of the frequency is dependent on how the other frequencies respond. A headphone with a 3db spike at 9000Hz and a 2.5db increase between 60-120Hz will not sound the same as headphone with a 3db spike at 9000Hz and a 2.5db increase between 50 and 90Hz. Even smallish differences may be "night and day" to some.
 
But (big but here)
 
if two headphones have almost identical frequency response charts, they'll most probably sound very similar. So people use a reference point, look at the reference FR graph, compare it to other headphones and make their own conclusions about the sound signatures of the other headphones. They can pinpoint areas which will sound "harsher", "muddier", "thinner", etc, than their reference point, but they won't know for certain what the headphone sounds like from looking at graphs. What FR graphs don't show is the timbre of instruments. Even if you feed it proper music instead of sine waves, it won't tell you how a cello or a acoustic guitar sounds. Timbre + how loud a certain frequency is reproduced determines the sound signature of a headphone. 
 
 
 

 

[kiteki]

Quote:

Well FR graphs represent magnitude, not quality. The Sennheiser HD 280 Pro show much more flat down to 0hz than HD650s even, yet HD650s and SRH940 sound vastly better in bass, and I really doubt the HD 280 Pros can produce very strong bass at all. But while HD650s sound vastly better quality than HD 280 Pros, the HD 280 Pros are indeed much flatter -- however the FR curve is not as smooth. I think a smooth FR seems to produce a "refined" sound, or at least that's my theory. But just a different shape FR tells you almost nothing about sound quality, but rather the hardware equalization essentially being performed.
 
I think someone needs to find a way to play a high quality FLAC signal through a headphone, measure the output, and compare it with the source digital audio signal. Of course it would need to be analyzed carefully accounting for phase shifts etc. that might throw off the results, but it shouldn't be impossible to arrive at a good analysis of overall sound quality in any desired area simply by seeing how close the headphone reproduces a given REAL WORLD sound signal. Rather than synthetic square waves and single sine waves.
 

Quote:

Quote:

@post 2743
 
Sine waves are not some abstract signal created in a lab. They’re the primary building block of all sounds we hear. Analogies would be a single color of light or a pure chemical element from the periodic table. All the colors we perceive are combinations of individual wavelengths of light. And everything we experience in the physical world is made up of elements from the periodic table. And, in much the same way, music is just a collection of sine waves. A perfect sine wave is a single pure tone and has no distortion of its own. It's the most pure component of sound. 
 
Quoted from Voldemort. 

I understand the importance of sine waves in math and physics. The solution to "d^2 x / dt^2 = -x" illustrates how fundamentally important they are.
 
But actually, that description you posted is an excellent example of why sinewaves are the worst to test a headphone with. Anything can produce a sinewave, since it's literally the simplest thing to reproduce. When all other frequencies are eliminated, suddenly you have a lot less to worry about in terms of sound reproduction.
 
Let me put it this way. Take any headphone and so a simple frequency sweep, 20 hz - 20 khz using pure sinewaves. I guarantee you, other than detecting maybe some sound signature features, you would have no clue whatsoever the difference between a mediocre headphone and a great one, listening to a simple frequency sweep alone.
 
In other words, "d^2 x / dt^2" is not a simple linear function in real life, and this is directly due to the design of the driver as well as the acoustic housing. 
 

Insightful comments.
 
Let's keep in mind though, this is considered one of the best headphones ever made... ever.
 

 
 
The place Blue Boat is quoting is concerned with pure sine waves in amplifiers, in cables, in the DAC, in every link of the chain except the headphone...
 

 

[rhythmdevils]

What headphone is that graph from? 

 

[ac500]

Yeah I'd like to know what good headphone has that much trouble with a 300hz square wave. Square waves are unnatural and hard to produce but I don't know of any high end headphone that doesn't do an excellent job with it.

 

[rhythmdevils]

"best headphone evar made" is completely subjective.  That's why I'd like to know which one we're talking about.  The Qualia 010? 

 

[achristilaw]

  Not once in my 35+ years of exploring Music re-production has any measurement told me how something "sounds".
 
  If their is no measurement that is definitive and recognized universally, why would anyone place stock in it? The 940 sounds "different" hooked to different amps. What amp was used for sweep measurements? If I'm detecting differences by ear, then the amp is important. What microphones in what positions were used. Microphones are selective in sensitivities per frequency. Would that make a difference? Since no actual standard is set...only a few general guidelines are used. 
 
  Yes Science is catching up...it is still designer art that is most in play.
 
  Many people using this phone are using the least expensive cmoy's (and derivatives). I would bleed from my eyes and nose if that were my situation. The only thing entry level about this phone is it's price....and in that it's doomed. In particular if it's mated with other entry level equipment (IMO)!
 
  This phone is stunningly revealing for it's price!