[Alex_A]

Monitors are exactly that, a tool designed specifically to provide professionals and musicians with the most accurate and detailed reproduction of what they're playing/mixing/editing/mastering.

These are designed as monitors, akin to ATC/PMC/BBC (etc.) speakers. Not purely consumer products, but also production tools.

Whilst a good degree of isolation may certainly help when it comes to 'in ear' monitoring, it does not mean that isolation necessarily comes hand in hand with monitoring. And with good dynamic drivers, it's fairly widely appreciated that perfect seal and isolation is not necessary for effective or even optimal performance.

 

[tstarn06]

Hmm, my guess is not many music producers are using the IE8s as their monitors to mix sound, etc. I could be wrong, of course, but I have read here over and over that neutral, analytical phones are used for those purposes, and IEMs would not be the preferred style of phone for that purpose anyway. Not sure. Someone with more experience could certainly answer that. And also, I would think that if you are indeed mixing sound, you would want a tight seal, so no extemporaneous noise would interfere with your work.

 

[dfkt]

Not sure anyone would really use IEMs for mixing/mastering... full-sized cans, maybe. Studio monitors, definitely. Professional IEMs certainly are made mainly with the live performer in mind, where a perfect seal and noise isolation is of utmost importance.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif . . . merely more crap shoveled at U.S. consumers, who frequently get the short end of the stick from manufacturers, with little recourse (other than gettnig money back).

I don't want to start an argument -- or continue one this one too long I guess-- but your perspective I think is part of the problem. And, no offense, but I wonder if you've ever run a business. If you had, your perspective might change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Joe paid about half-price for his Senns, so naturally, he's cool buying T400 sleeves to work with the IE8s, since they do sound great (and I have no doubt of that). Wonder if he'd feel the same if he had paid $449 for them. Doubtful on that point.

BTW, I paid full price for my Senn's, and am using the T400 sleeves, as they give me the best fit. I have no problem with this, as I know other folks you bought IEM's from other companies use the T400's also due to fit issues. Uh oh, it sounds like a conspiracy. Just kidding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, I didn't say I would not buy another of their products again, I said I would never buy another of their "IEM products" again. I guess if you bought a pair of IEMs and returned them for not fitting properly (based on the design), you'd turn around and buy another pair from the same manufacturer, right? Maybe you would. Not me.

My bad. I misread your post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But I frankly am tired of people defending the mentality that as long as we get it right for enough people, they we've succeeded. And the rest? Too bad.

Their goal/responsibility is make a product that gets it right "for enough people," considering the costs of production and the final pricing, etc., so that enough people buy the product that they maximize profits for their shareholders. Their goal is not to make something that fits everybody, and it should not be, unless that could be done at a cost and with a level of effort that would not materially impact their profits. They probably understand quite well what their goal/responsibility is, and I submit that they regularly achieve it, which is why they've been in business so long, and have such a good reputation in the headphone business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What would I want Sennheiser to do? Retool? No. How about offering people who have fit problems a credit or coupon for purchasing T400s (or any other tip that might work outside the ones supplied), at least a couple of packs, to show good faith? The number would be so small, based on your assumptions that these are minority outliers, that it would be a cheap solution.

Even if only a small percentage were to have problems, a freebie like this would not make sense for a lot of reasons. For one, I suspect a lot of people who don't have "fit problems" would take advantage of it -- especially if all you have to do is say "I have fit problems" to get a free pack or two of Comply tips, which cost $20 on the open market. In addition, I suspect such an approach might also materially effect the bottom line. Frankly, I think the better solution is that if they don't fit you with the regular tips, and that is such a big deal that you don't want the phone, don't buy it, or return it.

 

[tstarn06]

I do run my own business, but it's not making stuff, it's services.

Offering the T400 as a way to sooth an unhappy customer would make sense to me. If people wrongly take advantage, I guess it's the CODB. I doubt it would be rampant, since most customers don't read Head-Fi posts. If someone wrote/called with a problem, then they they get the offer. Klipsch offers two free pair of gels if you ask for them (they provide a card in with their phones), sure not everyone does, but that's added cost, and Klipsch gladly does it.

Never said everyone should be 100 percent satisfied. This (IE8 fit) seems to be a larger, more systemic issue, but no way of knowing it. The response just seemed a little too cavalier to me, typical big company stuff (blame the customer). Heck, even you had to get extra tips to make it work. That should tell you something (Mark, Joe and now you).

Don't think the perspective of (reasonably) getting what you pay for will ever be the problem. In fact, part of the reason why we are in the mess we are in today is that so many businesses got to play fast and loose with the rules, and as a result, their customer's lives. Yes, treating customers fairly and with respect still ranks high with me. I know I do it in my business, without a problem.

Enough, back to reality.


Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't want to start an argument -- or continue one this one too long I guess-- but your perspective I think is part of the problem. And, no offense, but I wonder if you've ever run a business. If you had, your perspective might change. BTW, I paid full price for my Senn's, and am using the T400 sleeves, as they give me the best fit. I have no problem with this, as I know other folks you bought IEM's from other companies use the T400's also due to fit issues. Uh oh, it sounds like a conspiracy. Just kidding. My bad. I misread your post. Their goal/responsibility is make a product that gets it right "for enough people," considering the costs of production and the final pricing, etc., so that enough people buy the product that they maximize profits for their shareholders. Their goal is not to make something that fits everybody, and it should not be, unless that could be done at a cost and with a level of effort that would not materially impact their profits. They probably understand quite well what their goal/responsibility is, and I submit that they regularly achieve it, which is why they've been in business so long, and have such a good reputation in the headphone business. Even if only a small percentage were to have problems, a freebie like this would not make sense for a lot of reasons. For one, I suspect a lot of people who don't have "fit problems" would take advantage of it -- especially if all you have to do is say "I have fit problems" to get a free pack or two of Comply tips, which cost $20 on the open market. In addition, I suspect such an approach might also materially effect the bottom line. Frankly, I think the better solution is that if they don't fit you with the regular tips, and that is such a big deal that you don't want the phone, don't buy it, or return it.

 

[ottoyu34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif While they may or may not save money if they don't supply medium tips as you say, they will lose many sales if medium tips would be right for a significant number of users. I think they probably know that. LOL.

True. When I compare the silicon ones. Small and Medium are similar in size, But Large is much bigger increase in diameter.

otto

 

[NicktheNorse]

Anyone noticed a slight harshness or maybe a touch of sibilance with the IE8s?

Listening to TF10s with complys is the least sibilant combination I've ever heard so maybe I've been a little spoilt, but every so often I find myself thinking some things sound a little harsh with the senns...

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicktheNorse /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyone noticed a slight harshness or maybe a touch of sibilance with the IE8s? Listening to TF10s with complys is the least sibilant combination I've ever heard so maybe I've been a little spoilt, but every so often I find myself thinking some things sound a little harsh with the senns...

Only if there is sibilance on the original recording, and then only ever so slightly, whereas the PFE has much more. And I only have a select few songs that are sibilant.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicktheNorse /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyone noticed a slight harshness or maybe a touch of sibilance with the IE8s? Listening to TF10s with complys is the least sibilant combination I've ever heard so maybe I've been a little spoilt, but every so often I find myself thinking some things sound a little harsh with the senns...

I would bet dollars to donuts that it is your source that is responsible.

 

[NicktheNorse]

My iPod 5G.

 

[Saintkeat]

holy nutsack! come on guys its just tips... for a few ppl the stock tips work out, for the rest just suck it up and get complys! or whatever.. its really not that big a deal! aren't you guys a little more concerned about production quality?? flip back 2 pages and you'll know what i'm talking about

 

[Cecala]

Just received my IE8s this morning and eagerly tried them on with the stock tips.The out of the box sound of these phones using the headphone output from my CD player can best be described as lifeless or comatose. No overwhelming bass as some have stated although highs are harsh, mids are average, soundstage poor or mediocre. Sound quality is overall compressed and dull plus muddy. I then had to leave for work so I burnt them in for some 10 hrs. Tried them on again and the soundstage has opened up quite a bit and the sound is now generally much richer and forward. Bass is still not very deep. The highs are still harsh although improving. They are starting to sound like full size phones, its amazing what Sennheiser has archived here in this regard. Sennheiser should put some warning label on the box to advise people on the outcome of proper burning as the initial sound was very lackluster and disappointing(scarily so).
The phones themselves are well made and quality exudes everywhere. The cable material is for my part perfect, just the right amount of 'grap'. The shipping box or outer shell containing the phones, carry container and so on is itself a marvel of engineering and probably amounts for half the purchase price. This aspect really needs to be seen to be appreciated. The lid which opens to reveal the phones behind a plastic window is held down by a magnet! The carry container though, while visually impressive is almost useless, I spent a good 5 minutes trying to wrap the cable and then closing the lid without damaging the end connector. I can't see myself doing this too often.
So far after 10 hrs the sound is improving and comparing it to my current phones, Audio-Technica ATH-CK7, I would say that apart from the richer sound and wider soundstage plus somewhat better details, they are even. I hope that they improve a lot more. From what I have read, upwards of 100 to 200 hrs are needed for these to really blossom. I have as yet not tried any of the supplied tips and used only the stock ones fitted. The isolation is poor with these and am sure is affecting the bass performance.
Will add more as I go along.

 

[SpudHarris]

The Jays medium tips came this morning & they are a definate improvement re: isolation and the seal is great.

They are tight to get on the nozzle but as the inner tube is soft silicone there's not much chance of snapping the nozzel (famous last words). Anyway for me I've found a fix and I'm sure Soozieq will report back when she's tried her UE mediums, hopefully she too will have found a fix.

 

[soozieq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpudHarris /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Jays medium tips came this morning & they are a definate improvement re: isolation and the seal is great. They are tight to get on the nozzle but as the inner tube is soft silicone there's not much chance of snapping the nozzel (famous last words). Anyway for me I've found a fix and I'm sure Soozieq will report back when she's tried her UE mediums, hopefully she too will have found a fix.

Nice to know you solved the fit issue finally

I love my foam tips, but I always get scared when I don't have decent backup tips

So hopefully, the UE's might be a good alternative.

 

[NicktheNorse]

Sooz what are your foam tips and your "UE mediums?"