[Drumonron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nor_spoon /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was wondering about the same thing in the other thread. Or was it this one... I guess David should be able to answer this.

Just wondering...would this affect the sound?
I really want to care about this point but
help me understand where this is going.

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drumonron /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just wondering...would this affect the sound? I really want to care about this point but help me understand where this is going.

It would not affect the sound - the materials chosen for headphones of this quality would be the materials that would give the best sound.

There would not be any compromises - $100 either way is not a lot with headphones of this price; so the materials would be chosen as those that give the best sound.

You don't want materials that would resonate or ring and cause nasty audio effects. You don't want materials that change shape or size too much with temperature or humidity - or - any changes one way with one material would be compensated by equal and opposite with another. This is normal good engineering practice.

Don't look on the plastic as being "cheap" - look on it as hi-tech plastic that has been chosen as it is the best material for the job and that an alternative material would make the headphones sound worse and not better.

 

[Drumonron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif It would not affect the sound - the materials chosen for headphones of this quality would be the materials that would give the best sound. There would not be any compromises - $100 either way is not a lot with headphones of this price; so the materials would be chosen as those that give the best sound. You don't want materials that would resonate or ring and cause nasty audio effects. You don't want materials that change shape or size too much with temperature or humidity - or - any changes one way with one material would be compensated by equal and opposite with another. This is normal good engineering practice. Don't look on the plastic as being "cheap" - look on it as hi-tech plastic that has been chosen as it is the best material for the job and that an alternative material would make the headphones sound worse and not better.

Thanks and these were my thoughts....but more articulate.

 

[Towert7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't look on the plastic as being "cheap" - look on it as hi-tech plastic

This is the second time I have heard this, and I still don't get it.

What is 'hi tech' about plastic in 2009?

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towert7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What is 'hi tech' about plastic in 2009?

There are many, many, many different types of plastic with many and varied different properties.

Some are just cheap and others are extremely expensive and have various additives to give specific properties.

Some plastic is cheap and brittle, others are more flexible (for instance, Hytrel, that is often used for high quality microphone clips).

Gone are the days when plastic was just a cheap material for making cheap products - it's now often a hi-tech product with specific properties and is used in very many forms in the Aerospace industry. There is some plastic, I think, that is as clear as glass and as tough as steel.

The plastic used in high quality headphones would have been selected and the mix fine-tuned for its specific properties to give the best sound from the headphones.

 

[Towert7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are many, many, many different types of plastic with many and varied different properties. Some are just cheap and others are extremely expensive and have various additives to give specific properties. Some plastic is cheap and brittle, others are more flexible (for instance, Hytrel, that is often used for high quality microphone clips). Gone are the days when plastic was just a cheap material for making cheap products - it's now often a hi-tech product with specific properties and is used in very many forms in the Aerospace industry. There is some plastic, I think, that is as clear as glass and as tough as steel. The plastic used in high quality headphones would have been selected and the mix fine-tuned for its specific properties to give the best sound from the headphones.

Thanks for the reply, but it still doesn't sound hi tech to me...

Aluminium is used in the Aerospace industry as well, and I would call that as low tech as it gets.
For this reason the Aerospace industry is not a good determination of what is high tech.

But I am still unsure what makes it a 'hi tech' plastic. Making plastic polymers has been around for many years now.

I don't know about you, but mentioning the word plastic makes me yawn.

Now if this hi tech plastic used special nano materials to do some revolutionary things, then I would call it hi tech for our times. Or perhaps if the plastic was doped with some material that gave the plastic crazy properties, sure. Hi tech.

I would consider all else just marketing 'fluff'.

 

[Sceptre]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towert7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What is 'hi tech' about plastic in 2009?

Go play a racquet game with a metal / fibreglass / hi tech plastic racquet and you might feel a difference.

Large amounts of R&D are being spent to improve a materials ability to exist / improve an experience, in many fields.

Fraunhofer Racket is one example.

You will in time come to accept that some plastics are better than metals in certain uses. I believe that it will take a long time for a plastic to mimic the ability of titanium to be accepted by the human tissue - but it will happen. When it does, would you admit then that a plastic might be hi tech?

There is a market perception issue in this field for sure. Bakelite was hi-tech in it's time and was accepted as such. Carbon fiber had mass acceptance since the late 70s. Plastics are still generally seen as the same material as the ROC produced toy in a Kinder egg decades ago. Maybe we just need NASA to be a little more open about the plastics it uses! Holy C**P - they do! Material Memory and NASA High Tech Plastics for Rotor Blades - Aviation Stronger than steel, lighter than aluminium (UK spelling) and determinable deformation. Sounds hi-tech to me!

I trust Sennheisers choice of material and am glad it has not made a Ti version with turbo ports, can opener and noise cancellation. These unfortunately would sell well in quantity.



Sceptre

 

[Towert7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sceptre /img/forum/go_quote.gif Go play a racquet game with a metal / fibreglass / hi tech plastic racquet and you might feel a difference.

Ah, but you see, that's the thing!
I wouldn't consider that hi-tech. Engineers doing marginal improvements. It's not a question of whether it's better, it's regarding the use of the word hi-tech.

Marginal improvements I do not consider hi-tech. Unless if it's actually using something hi tech and cutting edge. Usually marginal improvements are just improving upon the previous generation with similar techniques as the predecessor.

Maybe I'm just biased because I make my own plastics (yawn).........?

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towert7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe I'm just biased...?

Most likely

 

[dave650]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towert7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah, but you see, that's the thing! I wouldn't consider that hi-tech. Engineers doing marginal improvements. It's not a question of whether it's better, it's regarding the use of the word hi-tech. Marginal improvements I do not consider hi-tech. Unless if it's actually using something hi tech and cutting edge. Usually marginal improvements are just improving upon the previous generation with similar techniques as the predecessor. Maybe I'm just biased because I make my own plastics (yawn).........?

Oh. A plastics expert, good.
May I?
Do you object to my using caustic soda to strip the paint of my old HD580 headband, like when I was young and had to redo a model car?
Was I right to refuse acetone based product to strip that paint?
Thankyou

 

[Towert7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ /img/forum/go_quote.gif Most likely

^_^
It wouldn't be the first time either.
Haha

 

[Towert7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave650 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh. A plastics expert, good. May I? Do you object to my using caustic soda to strip the paint of my old HD580 headband, like when I was young and had to redo a model car? Was I right to refuse acetone based product to strip that paint? Thankyou

I'm no plastic expert. I just make little plastic discs with exotic things doped in.
Even a monkey could do it.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif The plastic used in high quality headphones would have been selected and the mix fine-tuned for its specific properties to give the best sound from the headphones.

I think this dialog is a bit odd, I sure as heck wouldn't want the weight and cost of metal on my head. Plastic has a bad rap in the US and it's dumb. Plastic is (as if there's only one kind ... ha) a terrific material. But I digress ...

I've visited the main Sennheiser campus near Hannover there was on part of the facility that greatly impressed me. Sure the headpone R&D area was cool with a bunch of measurement gear including laser interferometers and such, but the thing that really surprised me was the material science lab where they tested the materials and parts that were to be specified for use in their products. I'm sure most of you don't have one, but a scanning electron microscope ain't cheap, and neither is the many rooms full of sophisticated gear that made up their materials labs.

I'll bet you a pony keg of good beer that the plastics Sennheiser uses in the HD800, and in all it's products, are of much higher quality than you would otherwise assume.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think this dialog is a bit odd, I sure as heck wouldn't want the weight and cost of metal on my head.

Have you checked out the thread on the Edition 8? It is made from metal and it is light weight. What about the SA5000? It is made from magnesium, a material that has a higher manufacturing cost than plastic and retails for $700, only $400 street price. It is also light weight. I just don't know why so many think that just because a headphone is made from metal that is going to be heavy. They are making entire bicycle frames out of solid titanium nowadays that only weigh 2 pounds.


On a side note, John Willet has stated publicly once or twice that he works for Sennheiser. Not everyone has read these posts. Also, in his signature, he doesn't state it. I have no problem with him promoting the HD800 but could you please state somewhere on your posts that you work for Sennheiser? Otherwise, I am left with the feeling that you are the fox guarding the hen-house. All that is stated is that you are the president of "Circle Sound Services".

 

[Towert7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens /img/forum/go_quote.gif Plastic has a bad rap in the US and it's dumb. Plastic is (as if there's only one kind ... ha) a terrific material. But I digress ...

If I may sidetrack for a bit?
<sidetrack>

Perhaps the US is just ahead of the times.

Plastics are chemicals, through and through, and there are a lot of people who like to avoid using chemicals as much as possible.

The big talk about certain recycled plastics leaching out at faster rates... as in water bottles...

That new car smell everyone likes? That's the smell of chemicals seeping out slowly from the plastics because the plastics were made so fast that they are not fully cured.

Plastic serves a purpose, but I would prefer to be in contact with as little as I possibly can get away with. Thus my love for certain woods and metals. I MUCH prefer the snapples that come in glass bottles compared to those in plastic bottles. They even taste better!

</sidetrack>

I don't think it's dumb at all!