[olblueyez]

I wonder how much Senn 800's would cost if Merlin made the frames for them?

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif So it would be natural or black if you had some input?

Well thank you for the question first of all. I do not have an answer to tell you the truth. I do not have access to the kinds of materials that Sennheiser does. I would have to study the situation, learn, ask questions, and then only over time would I be able to answer this question. One thing I would do is take a Sony MDR-SA5000 with me to the Sennhesier plant for examination and ask how they managed to make a great, lightweight headphone out of magnesium for $700. Anyway, I am an artist and I have been working with "foam", yes, foam for over 15 years now. I am constantly shifting and learning about the different properties of all sorts of foams. Foam technology is an amazing field. Did you know that the swimming Cube in the summer Olympics was inspired by foam chemistry? Likewise, I would love to learn all about the materials that go into headphone design, be it wood, metal, and yes, plastic. Just as I try my best to make the most convincing paintings possible with the foams that I use, I would want the headphones to exude the same kind of quality no matter the price or the material.

The Olympic Swimming Cube:
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene...ing_of_bubbles

On a side note, I would like to visit the factory where the Leona plastic is made for the HD800. I would like to see what it looks and feels like in its raw form and out of the mold. Maybe the material would be expressive on its own and it wouldn't have to simulate metal. Maybe it can be finished in a way that doesn't compromise its materiality. I would also like to see an independent review of its properties in addition to comparisons with other materials.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wonder how much Senn 800's would cost if Merlin made the frames for them?

I was thinking, Seven. : )

 

[PFKMan23]

To me, metal means metal. I've worked with and used products that had metal and plastic equivalents (ie: airsoft gun frames) and I'm not convinced that metal = quality. I think alot of people have that impressions, but in my experience that's an illusion, as it also has less give, which in some cases would lend it to be more prone to tarnishing or outright beakage. I think only time will tell whether the quality of the HD800 is good or not.

 

[davidhunternyc]

I am not convinced that metal would be the right choice either. I am only objecting to the use of plastic as a simulation of metal. Also, many think that metal has to be heavy when it can be featherweight. Witness the SA5000. CNC machines can do amazing things as you well know, such as the new solid metal chassis on the Apple laptops.

 

[sunneebear]

The vast amount of plastic consumer goods that look like metal should be a sign that people don’t really mind. Most may even welcome the cost reduction because of faux metal. Many here at head-fi will overlook the material and aesthetics of a product as long as the SQ is to their liking.

Take Grado for instance. The mahogany or aluminum cups should be dirt cheap cause compared to magnesium, titanium or carbon fiber, mahogany and aluminum IS dirt cheap. I am pretty sure that everything at the plant is CNC instead of Joe the machinist standing there turning out each cup by hand. And no, CNC equipment does not cost millions just to make round cups. Round, not complex shapes, round. You can even contract that out with any machine shop. So people that like the Grado “sound” are paying for just that. They may also like pain and looking like HAM operators with crystal headsets.

The design of the HD800 looks a little tacky to me but down the line it’s just SQ that counts. Not unlike the Grado, it should not cost that much. NO matter how advanced, Leona is still just plastic. The drivers must be 5 to 6 hundred dollars a piece because all that plastic is cheaper than dirt. Mahogany and aluminum is already dirt cheap and I am pretty sure plastic is way cheaper. The plastic in the 600 and 650 are filled with carbon fiber so shouldn’t they cost more than the 800 which is just glass fiber? The 650 retails for $600 but street price is around $450. Sony’s SA5000 is all magnesium which cost much more as a raw material and cost much more to work with only cost $700 retail and around $375 on the street.

SQ rules this kingdom so unless the HD800 dethrones the R10 making this whole thread useless and headphiles everywhere will care less that it is made of dirt, otherwise it is still a cheap piece of plastic. The day I read that a dozen R10 owners have hailed the HD800 as the new king of dynamic will be the day that I lose $1400.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Yes, if the HD800 dethrones the R10, I will not care if it is made out of dirt either. Anything less than this, it would be nice if it bespoke of quality. Did you know that the HD800's are both machine molded and "Handmade in Germany?" Stradivarius would roll over in his grave.

Sennheiser HD800
Leona Plastic Frame, lightweight, and $1400 retail-

"Construction seems very good. They use a single hinge for the cups, like Denon, but far beefier, it wont wobble. The plastics are very good quality, but they are still injection molded plastic, the little molding pips are visible, and 2 part pieces have visible seems. The plastic is very high quality though, quite hard and stiff (fnar, fnar ). The unit is sturdy and doesn’t twist or creak when surreptitiously subjected to extremely rough handling…"

Sony MDR-SA5000
Magnesium Frame, lightweight, and $700 retail-

"I figured I’d mention this last to avoid torturing those that wanted the sound impressions primarily. Build quality on this headphone is simply terrific…very, very well made, with most of the headphone being made out of metal. Yet the headphone remains quite lightweight on the head despite all the metal. My biggest gripe by far is the two hard rubber strips that surround the headband net. Over time those two strips start “eating” into my head, and things get pretty painful. Why Sony chose such a stiff material for that, and to have its thickness be greater than the headband net, is beyond me. A simple cloth or leather fabric to support the headband net would’ve have been much more preferred, and probably served the same purpose."

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sony MDR-SA5000 Magnesium Frame, lightweight, and $700 retail- "I figured I’d mention this last to avoid torturing those that wanted the sound impressions primarily. Build quality on this headphone is simply terrific…very, very well made, with most of the headphone being made out of metal. Yet the headphone remains quite lightweight on the head despite all the metal. My biggest gripe by far is the two hard rubber strips that surround the headband net. Over time those two strips start “eating” into my head, and things get pretty painful. Why Sony chose such a stiff material for that, and to have its thickness be greater than the headband net, is beyond me. A simple cloth or leather fabric to support the headband net would’ve have been much more preferred, and probably served the same purpose."

That's typical when headband is not positioned properly, with SA5000 it should be moved further back so the mesh rests at the very top of your head, in that position there is no contact between head and rubber strips.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's typical when headband is not positioned properly, with SA5000 it should be moved further back so the mesh rests at the very top of your head, in that position there is no contact between head and rubber strips.

Thanks Andrew for clearing this up. I just wanted to contrast the two headphones build quality. Both quotations are from other members statements and are not my own. I have not heard the SA5000 but since this thread is only about design, I am very impressed with the design decisions and with the build quality that Sony has put into the SA5000. Maybe now that the HD800 is out, Sony will step up to the plate, and make a new improved version of the SA5000.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks Andrew for clearing this up. I just wanted to contrast the two headphones build quality. Both quotations are from other members statements and are not my own. I have not heard the SA5000 but since this thread is only about design, I am very impressed with the design decisions and with the build quality that Sony has put into the SA5000. Maybe now that the HD800 is out, Sony will step up to the plate, and make a new improved version of the SA5000.

Yep, the build quality is top notch, not sure if I posted that pictorial already
Sony MDR-SA5000 Review-Pictorial - ATRACLife Colloquium
http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=12515

And they don't sound shabby either.
Having said that I am most likely getting a pair of HD800 when it drops down under $1K, which is inevitable.

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Having said that I am most likely getting a pair of HD800 when it drops down under $1K, which is inevitable.

They are 999.99 in the UK - so all you have to do is to wait for the value of the £ to drop.

for you

for me

 

[jherbert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would also like to see an independent review of its properties in addition to comparisons with other materials.

That reviewer should have a degree in materials engineering. I also think Sennheiser had that done in the first place, and this is why they came up with leona and not magnesium, wood or something else.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yep, the build quality is top notch, not sure if I posted that pictorial already Sony MDR-SA5000 Review-Pictorial - ATRACLife Colloquium Sony MDR-SA5000 Pictorial & Review - Minidisc Community Forums And they don't sound shabby either. Having said that I am most likely getting a pair of HD800 when it drops down under $1K, which is inevitable.

Andrew, those pictures are nice. I like the fact that you got some real close-up photos of the headphones. When you get the HD800's it would be great if you took close-up photos of these headphones as well and then post your comparisons of both headphones here. Do you think because of the magnesium frame, that the SA5000's suffer from unwanted resonances and vibrations thereby degrading the sound quality? In fact, sometimes I think of starting a thread questioning how much the frame of a headphone really contributes to its sound quality. Some people say very little and some people say very much.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jherbert /img/forum/go_quote.gif That reviewer should have a degree in materials engineering. I also think Sennheiser had that done in the first place, and this is why they came up with leona and not magnesium, wood or something else.

Of course. Since Sennhesier chose to use the Leona plastic, even if their research was unbiased in the beginning, they would now have vested interest in promoting Leona plastic because that is what they chose to use. A real independent review of Leona plastic would have to be done by a third party without a connection to Sennheiser or the plastic companies.

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif A real independent review of Leona plastic would have to be done by a third party without a connection to Sennheiser or the plastic companies.

Er - that's what an independent review is - if the reviewer has any connection it's not an independent review.

Stating the obvious here