[Canman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif It is now down to 2 pounds for road bike frames. Check out Litespeed, Merlin, and Seven. O.K. I think it might be 2.2 pounds. Forgive me. I have also said elsewhere that if the HD800 is an R10 killer, then I don't care if it is made from dirt. Also, in response to your observation that I am one quirky mofo? ; )

Just the metal frame for any of the bikes you mention costs more than the HD800! And we're talking a few pounds of welded metal tubing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc Unfortunately, some of us can not discriminate? I have always been enamored with industrial design. Just don't get me started on vacuum cleaners.

Aren't vacuum cleaners great!

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif But John, I do not see the harm in stating that you work for Sennhesier? Not everyone that has read your posts know that you do. With every post, we know that you are the president of "Circle Sound Services" but not that you are employed by Sennheiser. To hide it in your profile means that people have to look for it and I do not think most people check out the profiles on here.

I work for Sennheiser, I am not owned by them and do loads of audio related things that are nothing to do with Sennheiser.

I have not promoted or pimped product, but have replied neutrally and factually in posts and where it's needed I have stated openly I work for Sennheiser - actually more than in any other forum.

If you read my posts you will see I have been fair and above board everywhere.

If it upsets you that I have been defending the use of a plastic material - I would do that for any make of headphones. Implying that plastic is a cheapo product and only done for costs (as you imply) is wrong and I would say the same whatever the make of headphones.

I am posting on the forum in a personal capacity and don't speak for Sennheiser - if I do at any time I make it very clear.

I would hope that is acceptable to all - I'm not trying to hide anything.

 

[nor_spoon]

I just want to know if the plastic is painted or not. I have asked several times, but since David choose to ignore my question, I assume he actually do not know. Oh well...

 

[aos]

I guess some points are being missed here. I don't think people would question the use of plastic in HD-800 as much if it was obvious that what's in there is there strictly because it's best for the sound. One way to do it would be to hide or wrap the plastic under a layer or shell of different, "higher class" material such as metal. If there appears to be no effort to make the product look like it's a million bucks, it is only to be expected that the use of cheaper (or even only perceptually cheaper) materials is questioned. Smart designers would take psychology into account, not just performance.

It's a mistake to think that looks don't matter for a high-end CONSUMER product. A lot of enjoyment from such equipment is derived not just from listening to it but from looking it and touching it. Sure the ultimate headphone geeks will buy but some, perhaps many of us will pass. I do care about performance so I may still buy it, eventually. But HD-800 will have to justify ALL of its price by its sound quality. As opposed to a beautiful designed headphone (say Audio Technicas) which would only need to justify a part of its price with its sound. Sennheiser is a business after all, not a charity or a service for geeks.

And no matter what plastic is used, the touch of plastic is still what it is - inferior. When one touches nicely designed products, one feels physical pleasure.

 

[ferraro25]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aos /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess some points are being missed here. I don't think people would question the use of plastic in HD-800 as much if it was obvious that what's in there is there strictly because it's best for the sound. One way to do it would be to hide or wrap the plastic under a layer or shell of different, "higher class" material such as metal. If there appears to be no effort to make the product look like it's a million bucks, it is only to be expected that the use of cheaper (or even only perceptually cheaper) materials is questioned. Smart designers would take psychology into account, not just performance. It's a mistake to think that looks don't matter for a high-end CONSUMER product. A lot of enjoyment from such equipment is derived not just from listening to it but from looking it and touching it. Sure the ultimate headphone geeks will buy but some, perhaps many of us will pass. I do care about performance so I may still buy it, eventually. But HD-800 will have to justify ALL of its price by its sound quality. As opposed to a beautiful designed headphone (say Audio Technicas) which would only need to justify a part of its price with its sound. Sennheiser is a business after all, not a charity or a service for geeks. And no matter what plastic is used, the touch of plastic is still what it is - inferior. When one touches nicely designed products, one feels physical pleasure.

Jesus christ.

 

[greggf]

I agree with aos................

 

[davidhunternyc]

Nor_Spoon,
I am so sorry for getting back to you until so late with your question. I was not ignoring you. When I started my thread, from what I've read, based upon those who have been to CES 2009, yes, they are spray-painted silver. Just to make sure, I researched Leona plastic and found out that, with this process, the molds can be colored at the factory. I have since emailed Sennheiser asking them if the plastic on the HD800 is spray-painted silver or not. This afternoon, before I went to work, I saw your message and only had time to quickly email Sennhesier again with the question. So far, they have not answered me. I am wondering if I will ever get an answer from them. I was hoping to come home tonight and copy their email for you to see here one way or the other. Again, I have not heard from them. Even if those who have auditioned them at the CES say they are spray-painted silver, how can I definitively say, "yes", unless I have proof from Sennheiser or I have the HD800 in my hands? The reason why I didn't have time to respond to you right away is because of what I wanted to say in response. That is, whether or not the silver is spray-painted or molded into the plastic, the plastic is still a simulation of metal. In fact, given the two choices, I would rather have the plastic spray-painted silver than colored silver in the mold. The following is the time consuming part of my response. Being an artist, I work with raw pigment all of the time. Silver pigment is actually quite heavy and individual particles are rather large. In contrast, lead white pigment is light weight and has a very fine particle size. The more pigment, especially silver pigment, that is added to molded plastic, the more the plastics attributes are compromised. That is why when you see most colored plastic, that the color looks rather muted and not saturated. For instance, acrylic paint can only hold a small percentage of colored pigment compared to oil paint. I have never seen molded silver plastic that looks saturated with the color. So not only do I have the posts on this forum to go on, but by looking at all the photos of the HD800, it is more than reasonable to assume that the plastic is spray-painted. The photos of the HD800 show that the silver color is quite saturated and the only way to do this is by spray-painting or powder coating the surface of the plastic. There are solvent based vehicles that will hold quite a bit of silver pigment and this is what I think is used. I am not 100% certain though and I wish I would've been able to post this with that much certainty tonight. I just wish Sennheiser would write back to me soon so I can post it here. Again, sorry for the delay.

 

[immtbiker]

One word: Paragraphs

¶

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nor_spoon /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just want to know if the plastic is painted or not. I have asked several times, but since David choose to ignore my question, I assume he actually do not know. Oh well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nor_Spoon, I am so sorry for getting back to you until so late with your question. I was not ignoring you. When I started my thread, from what I've read, based upon those who have been to CES 2009, yes, they are spray-painted silver. Just to make sure, I researched Leona plastic and found out that, with this process, the molds can be colored at the factory. I have since emailed Sennheiser asking them if the plastic on the HD800 is spray-painted silver or not. This afternoon, before I went to work, I saw your message and only had time to quickly email Sennhesier again with the question. So far, they have not answered me. I am wondering if I will ever get an answer from them. I was hoping to come home tonight and copy their email for you to see here one way or the other. Again, I have not heard from them. Even if those who have auditioned them at the CES say they are spray-painted silver, how can I definitively say, "yes", unless I have proof from Sennheiser or I have the HD800 in my hands? The reason why I didn't have time to respond to you right away is because of what I wanted to say in response. That is, whether or not the silver is spray-painted or molded into the plastic, the plastic is still a simulation of metal. In fact, given the two choices, I would rather have the plastic spray-painted silver than colored silver in the mold. The following is the time consuming part of my response. Being an artist, I work with raw pigment all of the time. Silver pigment is actually quite heavy and individual particles are rather large. In contrast, lead white pigment is light weight and has a very fine particle size. The more pigment, especially silver pigment, that is added to molded plastic, the more the plastics attributes are compromised. That is why when you see most colored plastic, that the color looks rather muted and not saturated. For instance, acrylic paint can only hold a small percentage of colored pigment compared to oil paint. I have never seen molded silver plastic that looks saturated with the color. So not only do I have the posts on this forum to go on, but by looking at all the photos of the HD800, it is more than reasonable to assume that the plastic is spray-painted. The photos of the HD800 show that the silver color is quite saturated and the only way to do this is by spray-painting or powder coating the surface of the plastic. There are solvent based vehicles that will hold quite a bit of silver pigment and this is what I think is used. I am not 100% certain though and I wish I would've been able to post this with that much certainty tonight. I just wish Sennheiser would write back to me soon so I can post it here. Again, sorry for the delay.

Abridged Version = "I don't know."

 

[davidhunternyc]

Immtbiker, if you think that's bad, check out my other thread:


http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f11/ch...dialog-403913/

 

[nor_spoon]

David, thank you for your response. Kudos for your effort and time put into this. I would say the thread title is misleading since you do not know if they are spray painted or not though.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nor_spoon /img/forum/go_quote.gif David, thank you for your response. Kudos for your effort and time put into this. I would say the thread title is misleading since you do not know if they are spray painted or not though.

Has anyone ever seen shiny silver plastic that is not painted? It's painted, no doubts.

 

[davidhunternyc]

I don't doubt it either. I just can't say I'm 100% certain because they are not out yet. It doesn't really matter. What matters is that it is silver painted plastic; sprayed, molded, whatever.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towert7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Plastics are chemicals, through and through, and there are a lot of people who like to avoid using chemicals as much as possible.

Ti,Cr, Mn, Fe, Co, Ni, Cu, Zn, Mo, Pd, Ag, Cd, Ta W, Pt, Au, and HG and the various alloys thereof are all chemicals.

Go eat some mercury, mmmmm, feed the kids some lead, or or gnosh on some aluminum for a taste of Alsheimers in old age; they're not very good for you.

Plastic isn't a "one thing" it's many different things. Sure huffing volatiles is not such a good idea, and some plastics take a long time to degrade, but open up that headphone amp and you'll find a lot of things that aren't so good for the environment. And some plastics can be made of corn cobs and degrade quite nicely, thank you.

Look, plastics are terrific materials to build sturdy things with known vibration characteristics, and cheaply to boot. Your predisposition to be annoyed by plastic is a gross oversimplification and ignorant of the very real advantages of the material for most folks in everyday life.

Internet rants, on the other hand are more common and less useful by far. I'm out.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens /img/forum/go_quote.gif snip

Tyll is the man.

I mean it.