I may be mistaken, but I don't believe that Sennheiser has ever admitted to making mid-product life cycle changes to any of their headphones -- even on the HD650, which (for me) had a painfully obvious distinction between early models and current models.
I may be mistaken, but I don't believe that Sennheiser has ever admitted to making mid-product life cycle changes to any of their headphones -- even on the HD650, which (for me) had a painfully obvious distinction between early models and current models.
Sennheiser certainly said that they changed the damping on the 650 - the early versions had silk damping and the later ones had stainless steel damping.
The change was because the silk was extremely difficult to do in manufacture and get a consistent result - once designed, the stainless steel damping was completely consistent.
I was assured by a Sennheiser rep that the HD800 had been tweaked during it's run. When I asked for documentation (FR graphs and the like) he said he'd have to get back to me but that he did have them. He did follow up a couple days later - with a terse email about how "no changes had been made." From the interaction I walked away with the impression that their have indeed been (probably minor) changes but that Senneiser has it's employees toeing a line.
It makes sense - making changes on a product, especially a flagship product aiming for perfection - undermines how perfect it was previously. It can also (theoretically) cause people to wait on purchases of future releases until the 'kinks are ironed out.'
I do notice that some of the very early SNs tend to be lighter in bass: http://www.head-fi.org/t/433059/sennheiser-hd800-certificate-for-frequency-response-arrived/165
It seems like whatever change they made (if any) was done well before the commonly rumored SN of 10xxx. My pair SN05823 has bass starting at +5 dB.
I was assured by a Sennheiser rep that the HD800 had been tweaked during it's run. When I asked for documentation (FR graphs and the like) he said he'd have to get back to me but that he did have them. He did follow up a couple days later - with a terse email about how "no changes had been made." From the interaction I walked away with the impression that their have indeed been (probably minor) changes but that Senneiser has it's employees toeing a line.
It makes sense - making changes on a product, especially a flagship product aiming for perfection - undermines how perfect it was previously. It can also (theoretically) cause people to wait on purchases of future releases until the 'kinks are ironed out.'
Just like what's happening with the LCD-3 right now. From a business perspective it's a disaster. All businesses would be wise to deny any manuf. changes.
Good business: Deny (or better yet stay silent) as long as it's possible. When the clamor deafens out your denials, it's better to address the issue and publicly take concrete steps to rectify the situation.
The variances in production of the LOTUS drivers - specifically the dead driver issue - is an issue Audeze couldn't afford to skirt around. The only way to get through the problems with their reputation somewhat intact is to acknowledge the problem, make assurances that it is being/has been solved, and have a flexible RMA policy to ensure everyone is happy with their pair when the dust is settled. The warranty policy was a further measure taken to prevent a potential mass exodus.
Sennheiser is large enough that a fiasco with one model (say with a new experimental driver) would not ruin the company. Audeze is still small enough that having these issues without a quick and clean resolution can cause a huge backlash for their reputation, current LCD-3 sales, and ultimately early purchases of future models.
When the LCD-3 first came out and the inevitable uproar over price ensued, everyone neglected to mention one variable in the price breakdown that innovative cottage companies have to deal with: future product defects. I don't know exactly what it costs them to receive, test, fix, and possibly replace each return that they've gotten, but it does add up. A pair found to be "defective" would have to be outfitted with new drivers and pads and re-tested to be sold as new again if at all.
I do notice that some of the very early SNs tend to be lighter in bass: http://www.head-fi.org/t/433059/sennheiser-hd800-certificate-for-frequency-response-arrived/165
It seems like whatever change they made (if any) was done well before the commonly rumored SN of 10xxx. My pair SN05823 has bass starting at +5 dB.
You did well to look for yourself Saintly (unlike some others here).
This issue has been addressed a few times before, but people, instead of reading previous pages, just ask again and then someone posts his/her opinion without any evidence, and a new rumour is started.
To repeat what has already been said earlier: according to the frequency response thread, some units below SN2200 or so had less bass and a smaller 6KHz peak. Since then, the frequency response graphs have been almost identical for all units. First the rumour was that HD800s over SN9000 were more bassy, then somehow the HD800s over SN10,000, and now anything over SN12,000 is the magic number. Ridiculous.
Someone posted that Jan Meier had said something about the later HD800s having more bass, but when he was emailed about it, he denied any such claims. Once again, just baseless rumours.
To add my data points again, my current SN9311 pair and previous SN3406 sounded identical.
I do notice that some of the very early SNs tend to be lighter in bass: http://www.head-fi.org/t/433059/sennheiser-hd800-certificate-for-frequency-response-arrived/165
It seems like whatever change they made (if any) was done well before the commonly rumored SN of 10xxx. My pair SN05823 has bass starting at +5 dB.
As I read the graphs, a lot of the early pairs, in the SN 1k-1500 for example, actually seem to have ample deep bass. Many seem to have a short 1db or so dip in the curve around 250hz, and a wider 2db dip centering on 3khz. However, 100-200hz, 300-1.5khz and 5khz-12khz are all generally at about the same level. My pair falls into this group.
It also seems to me that the difference between the peaks and valleys is actually smaller on many of the earlier SN's (a spread of 2.5db top to bottom) vs. some of the graphs in the SN 6k - 10k range, where I'm seeing spreads on the order of more like 5db's.
Agreed. I've been careful to add this caveat to each post about my 2nd pair of HD800 -- my amp and source have both dramatically improved. I also know that random sample variation (not dependent upon SN) is more common in hi-fi gear than any of us would like to admit.
Truthfully, I don't know why I'm enjoying the HD800 so much more this time, but I'm not giving them up any time soon.
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