[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, I made reference to this a while back. I recall early reviews of the HD650 indicated that it smoothed out a midbass hump inherent in the HD600. A year or two later, the HD800 had more bass than the 600. What sometimes occurs is that one is so impressed by the strong points that they overlook the weak ones, which become apparent later on. It is also possible that the strong points get stronger and the weak ones are never intrusive.

One potential difference between my listening to the HD800 and other people's so far is that I am fortunate to have been loaned a pair for a fairly lengthy period (1 month) - I did not buy them. So I do not have to deal with either buyer's euphoria, or worry about remorse, coloring my view on the headphone's performance. While I admit I *want* to like these, as I would like another pair of really great headphones, and I could afford to buy them if I liked them enough, my intent in listening to them is to analyze them with no pre-conceived notions, and since I have nothing to lose either way, it allows me a certain freedom to be scrutinize them very carefully, as I believe a "statement" product from a company like Sennheiser should be.

Please note that I am NOT saying that the views of the people who own HD800 are not valid, or any less valid than my opinion. ALL opinions are equally valid. But mine does come from a slightly different point of view - not as an owner, but purely as an analyzer.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guangguang /img/forum/go_quote.gif sorry gurus, could i please ask a question about your experiences on the soundstage of HD800?

I think one needs to temper expectations with respect to soundstage and 'phones in general. And specifically with respect to the 800, I think that some reviewers are characterizing the 800's ability to "disappear" as great soundstage. To me, this disappearing act is characteristic of the best 'stats and one of the most impressive feats by the 800 as a dynamic can. In my opinion, the 800 is vastly superior to the 600/650 in terms of soundstage because it does not have the "3 blobs" effect that seems to stay with those phones, even as they scale up. Conversely, the 800 just seems to melt away. However, this does not necessarily mean that the imaging becomes exponentially deeper or wider. Rather, I think it just becomes so much more precise. I think there are a lot of reviewers who have not yet experienced this perceived phenomenon of the "disappearing act," and they are overstating the soundstage of the 800.

Put another way, they don't sound like speakers; they sound like headphones.

As for your other question with respect to DAC and amp. I have found from past experience that a DAC like the north star m192 mk2 and an amp like the HR Balanced Desktop have increased my perception of depth and width of the soundstage. I will set aside for now the question of whether this peception is due to the gear itself or just my brain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif But mine does come from a slightly different point of view - not as an owner, but purely as an analyzer.

Fair enough. The personal investment in a pair of phones is important to acknowledge when formulating and reading impressions. I would just note 2 things: 1) many here know that they will be able to recoup most, if not all, of their costs should they decide to sell (for now...), so that the risk of paying a lot for something they cannot get rid of is limited (again, for now) and 2) do you plan to buy these phones if you like them? If so, I would argue that you are not purely an analyzer, but rather a potential purchaser. Perhaps a difference without a distinction, but a difference nevertheless.

EDIT: Sorry, skylab, reread your post and saw that you are considering buying the phones and that you want to like them. I think that is not quite the same as the completely neutral analyzer. Note, I do not mean to argue for argument's sake because I applaud the concerted effort to avoid FOTM hysteria here. I'm just trying to make sure the discussion is as transparent as possible because I think that will help us draw conclusions, if any. Regardless, I look forward to reading where you come out on these--for "better" or for "worse."

 

[john53]

This thing with the sibilance is a bit strange to me.

I will probably have the oportunity to try them on monday.They may be burnt in(because the dealer has a pair which they sent for testing to some magazines,and we will use that one)

I will use my x can v8,(i use it with hd 600),sony dvd/sacd player dvp ns 705v and monster interconnects (cheap one,nothing special)

I will listen to some tracks/songs that are just a bit bright,but not harsh or sibilant in my rig(for example police-englishman in new york,fragile,billy idol-sweet sixteen,fleetwood mac-everywhere,little lies,oh diane,Madonna-la isla bonita,all stewart-on the border(this one is a bit sibilant in my rig but not unleastenable)almost lussy,styx-boat on the river,dire straights-walk of life,sultans of swing,hooters-johny b(that is a little bright too)Donna summer-hot stuff

,Sheryl lee ralph-in the evening,boney m-

daddy cool....)

The above tracks are not top quality recordings but are not bad either,i have no problem to listen to them in my rig(some of them are a bit bright but i wouldn't say sibilant)

I will also try some more serious recordings(diana krall sacd,mike oldfield tubural bells sacd(that is a tad bright),pink floyd-wall,alan parsons project-pipeline,mamagamma,jean michael jarre-oxygene,and some audiophile cd's with classical,jazz and vocals which i have from some hi-fi magazines)

I will then post my experience(though note that i'm not too experienced as most of you so take my words with a grain of salt)I just like listening to my favourite music and enjoy it!(but i'm sensitive to sibilance,can't stand it especially with headphones)

Something more:all the above cd's and sacd's(no mp3)

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif Fair enough. The personal investment in a pair of phones is important to acknowledge when formulating and reading impressions. I would just note 2 things: 1) many here know that they will be able to recoup most, if not all, of their costs should they decide to sell (for now...), so that the risk of paying a lot for something they cannot get rid of is limited (again, for now) and 2) do you plan to buy these phones if you like them? If so, I would argue that you are not purely an analyzer, but rather a potential purchaser. Perhaps a difference without a distinction, but a difference nevertheless.

Indeed, I indicated as much in my post - initially I was considering buying them if I liked them enough. However, just the fact that they do not mate well with OTL tube amps has basically eliminated any chance that I will do so. Most of my amps, and all of the ones I use regularly, are OTL tube amps. So at this point I have all but decided that I will not be buying a pair.

I'm not sure whether that has any bearing on my comments, but I am a big believer in full disclosure, so there it is.

I will be listening to the HD800 from this point forward primarily on the Audio-GD C2C and on a Graham Slee Solo CRG that I have in for review, both of which are well beyond broken in. I'm not familiar with the Slee yet, and so I will have to start my audition of it with other cans first, but I am very familiar with the sound of the C2C, and it is both an excellent and powerful SS amp.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not sure whether that has any bearing on my comments, but I am a big believer in full disclosure, so there it is.

Heh, my post edit and your post crossed in the ether. Your disclosure is appreciated and a good example for a lot of the newer members who decide to post reviews.

 

[peanuthead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif One potential difference between my listening to the HD800 and other people's so far is that I am fortunate to have been loaned a pair for a fairly lengthy period (1 month) - I did not buy them. So I do not have to deal with either buyer's euphoria, or worry about remorse, coloring my view on the headphone's performance. While I admit I *want* to like these, as I would like another pair of really great headphones, and I could afford to buy them if I liked them enough, my intent in listening to them is to analyze them with no pre-conceived notions, and since I have nothing to lose either way, it allows me a certain freedom to be scrutinize them very carefully, as I believe a "statement" product from a company like Sennheiser should be. Please note that I am NOT saying that the views of the people who own HD800 are not valid, or any less valid than my opinion. ALL opinions are equally valid. But mine does come from a slightly different point of view - not as an owner, but purely as an analyzer.

Sure. But many of us purchase our headphones from vendors that have a full refund policy, so we are not necessarily bound by buyer's remorse, nor "desparate" to really like our purchased phones...

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanuthead /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sure. But many of us purchase our headphones from vendors that have a full refund policy, so we are not necessarily bound by buyer's remorse, nor "desparate" to really like our purchased phones...

Good point - in such a case, I would assume that the buyer would be evaluating them the same way I am.

 

[dallan]

Hey Skylab a quetion, They don't mate well with OTL tube amps? Was this something you have observed in your listening? Maybe I missed it in the thread, just curious because I have other amps but keep coming back to the OTL. I had a high end ss amp offer to me at a good price and if that is true maybe I should try to reconsider. To me when I compared the sound was different but not necessarily worse.

 

[BobMajor]

It's hard for me to imagine these phones sounding better than they do on my OTL Zana Deux.

 

[Skylab]

As posted above, the HD800 have a very high inductance, and this can couple poorly with an OTL amp, depending on the output impedance of said amp.

It's a complex issue, and that doesn't mean it *won't* sound good on any given OTL amp. But on the SinglePower Extreme, the treble emphasis was worse that it is on the SS Audio C2C, which I would not have expected. I have never considered the Extreme to be at all rolled off, and of course I cannot measure its output impedance, so it's possible that the amp isn't contributing to the treble emphasis I hear. But since people were quick to jump in and assure me that OTL amps were a poor choice due to this inductance issue, I decided to go all solid-state for the rest of my critical evaluation.

BTW, after the critical evaluation, if I decide it makes sense, I will just sit back and listen to music on the things without trying to dissect them, to see if the very slight flaws I hear bother me. Right now I am trying to hear exactly what they are doing on a very micro level.

 

[dallan]

Tell you Bob, I like the 800s better with the Mullard tube than the Brimar. Did you ever roll to those with the HD800.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's a complex issue, and that doesn't mean it *won't* sound good on any given OTL amp. ... But since people were quick to jump in and assure me that OTL amps were a poor choice due to this inductance issue, I decided to go all solid-state for the rest of my critical evaluation.

it sounds fine on my B52 and that is, unless i am somehow mistaken, and OTL amplifier. another headfier i know - who has a B52, several solid state amps, and an HD800 - says he prefers the 800 on his B52.

 

[dallan]

Thanks for the explaination. At canjam, I heard only one tube amp I didn't like them on and I am sorry to say that was Todds big high end model-sounded thin. The only ss amp I liked was the B22 (Apache) sounded really good-and I am generally not a big fan of Ray's amp, but that one seemed to work w/HD800 well.
Most tube amps sounded great with them, esp the Woo amps as I recall.
That said it wasn't the best lisening environment and I spent most of my time with Dave909's cd player-Rigetta or something, his eddiie current custom and the L3000 or I was next to that with a Woo 5 tube rolled & HD600?? setup that was wonderful.

 

[xchagg]

@ Skylab
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif However, just the fact that they do not mate well with OTL tube amps has basically eliminated any chance that I will do so. Most of my amps, and all of the ones I use regularly, are OTL tube amps. So at this point I have all but decided that I will not be buying a pair.

Have you listened to to the HD 800s paired with the Darkvoice 336? If so, could you elaborate on the major deficiencies that such a pairing has?

Am interested because I will be stuck with the HD 800/DV336 pairing for at least a year, and would like to know what I might be missing out on. Regardless, the HD 800 is most likely a keeper

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xchagg /img/forum/go_quote.gif @ Skylab Have you listened to to the HD 800s paired with the Darkvoice 336? If so, could you elaborate on the major deficiencies that such a pairing has? Am interested because I will be stuck with the HD 800/DV336 pairing for at least a year, and would like to know what I might be missing out on. Regardless, the HD 800 is most likely a keeper

This weekend I plan on running around the house plugging the HD800 into every headphone amp I have...really. So this will include the 336SE.