[Tripokaridos]

The HD650 pads I used to own about 4 years ago were different from the pads in my made in Romania HD660s.
Definitely and brand new both of them.
The new ones allow more space inside the cup.

Dont know i have the same feeling for me 58x 6xx 600 look exaclty the same and on my 660s was a little bit different .
Anyways i will wait for the new ones that sennheiser sells to see exactly .
Either way there is no other solution for pads that dont change the sound. So its good to have a spare original set.

 

[Tripokaridos]

By the way has anyone tried to custom fill the original pads with other materials ?
At my work we have 8 different foam materials 3 different memmory foams latex and some type of gels and i was thinking if i can cut them at shape or make them trim to use it inside the original pads.

 

[CaptainFantastic]

By the way has anyone tried to custom fill the original pads with other materials ?
At my work we have 8 different foam materials 3 different memmory foams latex and some type of gels and i was thinking if i can cut them at shape or make them trim to use it inside the original pads.

I just use Dekoni Elite Fenestrated Sheepskin and --to my ears-- they sound even better than the stock pads. I tried the Elite Velour as well recently and those did not sound as good.

 

[Oculomotorius]

Can anyone please tell me how these sound compare to Neumann NDH 20?

I've bought the Neumanns which sound fantastic (clear, precise and analytical but not harsh, totally complete sounding, has enough of bass, everything is right) but they're just uncomfortable for me, (my head and ears hurt after half an hour from the headband) so I'm looking for a replacement and I'm desperate!
Another option was Audeze LCD-1 bc I need hp mainly for music production.

Thnx!

 

[Tripokaridos]

I just use Dekoni Elite Fenestrated Sheepskin and --to my ears-- they sound even better than the stock pads. I tried the Elite Velour as well recently and those did not sound as good.

Hmmm the Velours i sold them didnt like them because they sounded muddy.
I think i will order the Dekoni Fenestrated sheepskin to try.
What is your opinion about changes on sound compared to the stock ones ? Do they have the same clearness ?
I have to find a Europe store to buy the dekonis if u have any link i would appreciate that.

 

[Evshrug]

So, just so everyone knows, the HD 660 S' pad was used all the way back as far as the HD 580 in the 1990's. I just talked to the Product Manager this morning (and Axel once told me the same, now that I think about it), and she confirmed that they're still using the Germany-native supplier for the pads, following the same design specifications they always have. Furthermore, she also confirmed that the sound design and tuning of the HD 650 has been consistent throughout production, although available materials might have been slightly different over the very long production time of those legacy models (the different colored paper in the HD 650, for example, was only different in appearance, not a "silent revision" to the sound). The most significant changes to the HD 650 and HD 600 over the course of their production was the upgrade of the HD 600's cable attachment mechanism (to make it more secure like the HD 650), and last year's new tooling for the more squared-off plastic parts and color changes.

The drivers for all the HD 6## models (and HD 58X Jubilee) are still made in the same Ireland factory they always have been, and still hand-matched and assembled there. It's quite possible the ~1dB variance (famously tight) in manufacturing has lead to sliiiiightly different sounding units over the years, but again the drivers were always matched anyway. Any difference heard within a design (ie an HD 650 compared to another HD 650) would just be a one-off difference, and again it's worth emphasizing that with their tight tolerances (some of the best in the business, I saw some fascinating equipment and tests for driver instability "wobble" while visiting their headquarters) and of course the same acoustic design that any difference would be small.

After seeing a lot of speculation on Head-Fi about "the year 20## edition HD 650" and different variants, I thought I might learn some secret by asking. The truth is much more simple however, that Sennheiser would keep the model numbers sounding the same as possible throughout production since they became a reference for mixing masters, and so consistency is important. That's also why they still make the two legacy models, despite releasing the HD 660 S which lifts some technology from the HD 800 and 700 for improved airflow control and faster transient response.

 

[Evshrug]

Can anyone please tell me how these sound compare to Neumann NDH 20?

I've bought the Neumanns which sound fantastic (clear, precise and analytical but not harsh, totally complete sounding, has enough of bass, everything is right) but they're just uncomfortable for me, (my head and ears hurt after half an hour from the headband) so I'm looking for a replacement and I'm desperate!
Another option was Audeze LCD-1 bc I need hp mainly for music production.

Thnx!

Personally (and not everyone will agree), when I think of headphones for music production, I think of a tuning that will be very frank about revealing any harshness or flaws in a recording. Neumann is very "Frank" indeed, if you'll excuse the pun! Honestly, I only had a short demo with the Neumann at two trade shows... from memory, it was a very even-handed headphone, without hype, so once you're used to that it should be obvious if something is suddenly sticking out in one recording.

But everyone has their own style... I'm good friends with a guitarist and songwriter, who told me they used super-reference, highly revealing gear in production (in the studio, they mostly cared about something durable with good isolation), but then after "fixing it," the best engineers would take the recordings out to familiar listening systems, like a car radio or their "listen for pleasure" headphones and speakers. The thought process was that the music still had to sound "right" on a system a customer was most likely to use.

To that effect, it might be good to keep the Neumann, and maybe add an HD 660 S (which I personally really like, but you can pick whatever floats your boat!) for the sake of contrast. And with regards to your headband discomfort, I should pass that comment up the chain... but I'm going to put on my Dekoni hat real quick (even though they don't pay me to do this), and suggest that adding Dekoni Nuggets for a bit of extra padding might help. My hair has become quite thin these days, so I really appreciate the nuggets on my Fostex TH-X0 and TH-X00 Purpleheart.

Hmmm the Velours i sold them didnt like them because they sounded muddy.
I think i will order the Dekoni Fenestrated sheepskin to try.
What is your opinion about changes on sound compared to the stock ones? Do they have the same clearness ?
I have to find a Europe store to buy the dekonis if u have any link i would appreciate that.

It's funny, sometimes the Dekoni Elite Velour have more bass than the sheepskin pads. I recommend looking at Dekoni's measurements thread on the Head-Fi sponsor's forum, or Dekoni's own product page, for an idea of the balance of frequencies. However, masking is something not usually able to be perceived on frequency curve graphs... the fenestrations are there specifically to "absorb" some of the frequencies that might mask others and cause a "muddiness" feeling. Dekoni's most popular selling HD 6## and HD 800 pads have been the Fenestrated Sheepskin, but that's not always the best choice for every headphone, and some people just really like particular options.

Here's Dekoni's international dealer's page, you should have a few options. I met Mark from ElectroMod, he's a really nice guy, and the other dealers were really enthusiastic to sell Dekoni:
https://dekoniaudio.com/international-dealers/

 

[CaptainFantastic]

The drivers for all the HD 6## models (and HD 58X Jubilee) are still made in the same Ireland factory they always have been, and still hand-matched and assembled there.

Excellent, just excellent insights. Thanks! But one question: if the drivers are still made and assembled in Ireland, what is being done in Romania? All 6-series models say Made in Romania currently. Is this the final assembly of the unit itself (headband, grills, etc.)? It would seem inefficient to ship the drivers from Ireland to Romania for final overall assembly.

 

[CaptainFantastic]

Hmmm the Velours i sold them didnt like them because they sounded muddy.
I think i will order the Dekoni Fenestrated sheepskin to try.
What is your opinion about changes on sound compared to the stock ones ? Do they have the same clearness ?
I have to find a Europe store to buy the dekonis if u have any link i would appreciate that.

I think the sound difference compared to the new stock pads is minor. It seems to add some bass and speed to the sound. But I did not extensively A/B. I like the feel of the lambskin leather much more than the stock pads.

For some reason for Europe the UK dealers have the best availability. I recently bought from www.audiosanctuary.co.uk . They had a decent price on shipping to the mainland.

 

[Oculomotorius]

Personally (and not everyone will agree), when I think of headphones for music production, I think of a tuning that will be very frank about revealing any harshness or flaws in a recording. Neumann is very "Frank" indeed, if you'll excuse the pun! Honestly, I only had a short demo with the Neumann at two trade shows... from memory, it was a very even-handed headphone, without hype, so once you're used to that it should be obvious if something is suddenly sticking out in one recording.

But everyone has their own style... I'm good friends with a guitarist and songwriter, who told me they used super-reference, highly revealing gear in production (in the studio, they mostly cared about something durable with good isolation), but then after "fixing it," the best engineers would take the recordings out to familiar listening systems, like a car radio or their "listen for pleasure" headphones and speakers. The thought process was that the music still had to sound "right" on a system a customer was most likely to use.

To that effect, it might be good to keep the Neumann, and maybe add an HD 660 S (which I personally really like, but you can pick whatever floats your boat!) for the sake of contrast. And with regards to your headband discomfort, I should pass that comment up the chain... but I'm going to put on my Dekoni hat real quick (even though they don't pay me to do this), and suggest that adding Dekoni Nuggets for a bit of extra padding might help. My hair has become quite thin these days, so I really appreciate the nuggets on my Fostex TH-X0 and TH-X00 Purpleheart.



It's funny, sometimes the Dekoni Elite Velour have more bass than the sheepskin pads. I recommend looking at Dekoni's measurements thread on the Head-Fi sponsor's forum, or Dekoni's own product page, for an idea of the balance of frequencies. However, masking is something not usually able to be perceived on frequency curve graphs... the fenestrations are there specifically to "absorb" some of the frequencies that might mask others and cause a "muddiness" feeling. Dekoni's most popular selling HD 6## and HD 800 pads have been the Fenestrated Sheepskin, but that's not always the best choice for every headphone, and some people just really like particular options.

Here's Dekoni's international dealer's page, you should have a few options. I met Mark from ElectroMod, he's a really nice guy, and the other dealers were really enthusiastic to sell Dekoni:
https://dekoniaudio.com/international-dealers/

Thanks for suggesting Dekoni Nuggets! I didn’t know they exist! This way I can keep the Neumanns, which are great hp and very honest as you say. Thnx!

 

[Tripokaridos]

So, just so everyone knows, the HD 660 S' pad was used all the way back as far as the HD 580 in the 1990's. I just talked to the Product Manager this morning (and Axel once told me the same, now that I think about it), and she confirmed that they're still using the Germany-native supplier for the pads, following the same design specifications they always have. Furthermore, she also confirmed that the sound design and tuning of the HD 650 has been consistent throughout production, although available materials might have been slightly different over the very long production time of those legacy models (the different colored paper in the HD 650, for example, was only different in appearance, not a "silent revision" to the sound). The most significant changes to the HD 650 and HD 600 over the course of their production was the upgrade of the HD 600's cable attachment mechanism (to make it more secure like the HD 650), and last year's new tooling for the more squared-off plastic parts and color changes.

The drivers for all the HD 6## models (and HD 58X Jubilee) are still made in the same Ireland factory they always have been, and still hand-matched and assembled there. It's quite possible the ~1dB variance (famously tight) in manufacturing has lead to sliiiiightly different sounding units over the years, but again the drivers were always matched anyway. Any difference heard within a design (ie an HD 650 compared to another HD 650) would just be a one-off difference, and again it's worth emphasizing that with their tight tolerances (some of the best in the business, I saw some fascinating equipment and tests for driver instability "wobble" while visiting their headquarters) and of course the same acoustic design that any difference would be small.

After seeing a lot of speculation on Head-Fi about "the year 20## edition HD 650" and different variants, I thought I might learn some secret by asking. The truth is much more simple however, that Sennheiser would keep the model numbers sounding the same as possible throughout production since they became a reference for mixing masters, and so consistency is important. That's also why they still make the two legacy models, despite releasing the HD 660 S which lifts some technology from the HD 800 and 700 for improved airflow control and faster transient response.

WoW thanks a lot for this post. Now everything is.clear.
About quality control i have to agree i.have never had problems with Sennheiser even the cheap ones.
Thats why i never bought for example Hifiman headphones that most people have quality control problems or miss matched drivers .

 

[Tripokaridos]

Personally (and not everyone will agree), when I think of headphones for music production, I think of a tuning that will be very frank about revealing any harshness or flaws in a recording. Neumann is very "Frank" indeed, if you'll excuse the pun! Honestly, I only had a short demo with the Neumann at two trade shows... from memory, it was a very even-handed headphone, without hype, so once you're used to that it should be obvious if something is suddenly sticking out in one recording.

But everyone has their own style... I'm good friends with a guitarist and songwriter, who told me they used super-reference, highly revealing gear in production (in the studio, they mostly cared about something durable with good isolation), but then after "fixing it," the best engineers would take the recordings out to familiar listening systems, like a car radio or their "listen for pleasure" headphones and speakers. The thought process was that the music still had to sound "right" on a system a customer was most likely to use.

To that effect, it might be good to keep the Neumann, and maybe add an HD 660 S (which I personally really like, but you can pick whatever floats your boat!) for the sake of contrast. And with regards to your headband discomfort, I should pass that comment up the chain... but I'm going to put on my Dekoni hat real quick (even though they don't pay me to do this), and suggest that adding Dekoni Nuggets for a bit of extra padding might help. My hair has become quite thin these days, so I really appreciate the nuggets on my Fostex TH-X0 and TH-X00 Purpleheart.



It's funny, sometimes the Dekoni Elite Velour have more bass than the sheepskin pads. I recommend looking at Dekoni's measurements thread on the Head-Fi sponsor's forum, or Dekoni's own product page, for an idea of the balance of frequencies. However, masking is something not usually able to be perceived on frequency curve graphs... the fenestrations are there specifically to "absorb" some of the frequencies that might mask others and cause a "muddiness" feeling. Dekoni's most popular selling HD 6## and HD 800 pads have been the Fenestrated Sheepskin, but that's not always the best choice for every headphone, and some people just really like particular options.

Here's Dekoni's international dealer's page, you should have a few options. I met Mark from ElectroMod, he's a really nice guy, and the other dealers were really enthusiastic to sell Dekoni:
https://dekoniaudio.com/international-dealers/

i will make an order from electromod it looks good site reliable. Do u know if they have any discount coupon or number ? That qould be nice
Thanks for your posts.

 

[Majestyk]

Excellent, just excellent insights. Thanks! But one question: if the drivers are still made and assembled in Ireland, what is being done in Romania? All 6-series models say Made in Romania currently. Is this the final assembly of the unit itself (headband, grills, etc.)? It would seem inefficient to ship the drivers from Ireland to Romania for final overall assembly.

Yeah, something doesn't add up there. If I was a part of the Ireland driver manufacturing team, I would not be happy about the "MADE IN ROMANIA" stamped on the boxes of the latest headphones.

 

[Deoee]

Wow I just read like 300 Pages of this thread and let me say- Mike, what a journey!

i just received my HD660S + Apogee Groove and wow....
listening to Alpha Blondy let my ❤ melt! Coming from Airpods Pro and He400i it is just beatiful

 

[Evshrug]

Excellent, just excellent insights. Thanks! But one question: if the drivers are still made and assembled in Ireland, what is being done in Romania? All 6-series models say Made in Romania currently. Is this the final assembly of the unit itself (headband, grills, etc.)? It would seem inefficient to ship the drivers from Ireland to Romania for final overall assembly.

I’m not 100% on this without double checking (you can imagine, speaking for a whole international company), but I’m pretty sure the enclosure and general structure of the headphone is made in Romania, but final assembly and sound checks are still done in Ireland. The logistics of it work out, Sennheiser invested highly into skilled labor in Ireland, and now they’re making a different investment in Romania. If possible, I’d like to ease some people’s worries that somehow the quality changed just because Sennheiser got fresh tooling and set up the Romanian factory... its all good, QC and the results due to design, research, and development are still up to Sennheiser’s strict standards. I think most people have accepted that by now, but it‘s worth repeating

Yeah, something doesn't add up there. If I was a part of the Ireland driver manufacturing team, I would not be happy about the "MADE IN ROMANIA" stamped on the boxes of the latest headphones.

LOL, I get you... but if you think about it, it’s the headband that’s stamped “made in Romania...” The point is it doesn’t really matter, it’s all Sennheiser design... and at least now you know that Ireland is still involved, which you may not have before. So in a way, they’re getting credit now. Same with the pads from Germany.