[Tripokaridos]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this. One of the things that put me off getting the HD660S for so long was the reported extra treble energy over the HD650. I have two HD650's and now two HD600S's as well, and I heard five HD660S's - four of them including the two I kept, at length. My long term listening tells me that Solderdudes graph is accurate. The HD650 definitely has more treble energy. I hear this over all the samples I've listened to over any number of genres.

However, there's no doubt that the HD660S has more overall clarity than the HD650, and this could be mistaken for extra treble energy. It's also worth pointing out that the graph shown above has an expanded vertical axis to emphasise the differences between the three headphones. The unexpanded graph looks much closer to listening reality.

My mistake then its NOT a fact its what i can hear .
U have more xp than me so i have to re think what is this that is making me hear more energy on highs ... Is it the clarity ? Dont know but right now again and again listening my 660 vs 6xx and i am sure to me they sound brighter ... My friends that i use the same song think that to.
I am not saying these graphs are not correct i am saying what people and me is hearing from my 6xx vs 660.
Unless if my 660 are broken and are brighter .

 

[Mike F]

My mistake then its NOT a fact its what i can hear .
U have more xp than me so i have to re think what is this that is making me hear more energy on highs ... Is it the clarity ? Dont know but right now again and again listening my 660 vs 6xx and i am sure to me they sound brighter ... My friends that i use the same song think that to.
I am not saying these graphs are not correct i am saying what people and me is hearing from my 6xx vs 660.
Unless if my 660 are broken and are brighter .

Four things. The first is that your HD660S IS brighter. I don't know how much of this thread you've read but I've speculated earlier that the first 660S's were brighter than later and current production. I based that on the many early reports that the 660S was brighter than the 650 and also on Sonorworks FR graph which clearly shows that they are. Either Sonarworks graph was plain wrong (which I find hard to believe) or Sennheiser did a subtle (unannounced) update/revision. If yours are early examples they could be brighter. There's no doubt in my mind that at least the later and current production 660S have less treble energy than the 650, as shown in Solderdudes FR graph.

The second thing is that it could depend on what you mean by treble. According to Solderdudes graph the 660S does have more energy from around 10kHz to about 13kHz (although any measurement above 10kHz is generally regarded as unreliable). But you could be hearing that. Most people regard that as 'air'. What treble frequencies do you think have more energy on the 660S? Solderdudes own 'descriptors' frequency graph can be useful.

The third (and perhaps most likely) thing is that you have fresh pads on the 660S and worn pads on the 650. That could produce the result that you hear.

The fourth thing is that the 660S also have a more pronounced 'spike' or rise at around 5kHz than the 650. Given the difficulties of volume matching due to the different impedance of the two headphones and the fact that the treble energy below 5kHz is lower on the 660S, it is quite possible that you may hear this and interpret it as a more pronounced treble.

 

[tafens]

Bad rep on HD650 ? And pads ?
Thats really strange i thought HD650 have good rep and that original pads are the ones with the best sound.

I’m sorry, my statement about the pads was unclear and maybe a bit drastic.. by bad pads I meant original pads that have deteriorated by usage and time (and they should then be replaced by new original pads)
By bad rep I mean, some of the time when people voice it as muddy, veiled, and the like, it’s possibly due to them hearing it with bad/compressed pads. Had the pads been everlasting I think they would have got much less critique for this (albeit not zero, there is personal preference in this matter too).

One of the HD6XX I bought came with bad pads from the start for some reason. It sounded just like that, muddy, veiled, unengaging.. not at all like my other set of HD6XX (luckily I got the good set first, had the bad one been first I might have given up on the HD6XX/650 altogether). I had read that pads could be a problem so I tried replacing them with new ones directly from Sennheiser, and boom, problem gone!

Since then, I’ve made it a point to exchange the pads annually, before the get too worn. I have always kept to original pads and wouldn’t recommend anything else.

 

[kman1211]

I’m sorry, my statement about the pads was unclear and maybe a bit drastic.. by bad pads I meant original pads that have deteriorated by usage and time (and they should then be replaced by new original pads)
By bad rep I mean, some of the time when people voice it as muddy, veiled, and the like, it’s possibly due to them hearing it with bad/compressed pads. Had the pads been everlasting I think they would have got much less critique for this (albeit not zero, there is personal preference in this matter too).

One of the HD6XX I bought came with bad pads from the start for some reason. It sounded just like that, muddy, veiled, unengaging.. not at all like my other set of HD6XX (luckily I got the good set first, had the bad one been first I might have given up on the HD6XX/650 altogether). I had read that pads could be a problem so I tried replacing them with new ones directly from Sennheiser, and boom, problem gone!

Since then, I’ve made it a point to exchange the pads annually, before the get too worn. I have always kept to original pads and wouldn’t recommend anything else.

I may be in the minority but I like basically all of the HD 6 line with more worn pads than new pads and whenever I get one of these headphones it often takes me a while to appreciate them as I’m not a huge fan of their sound with new pads. The HD 660 S is the only one I like straight off the bat; whereas the HD 600/650 are love/hate until they get a decent amount of pad wear, mostly because it makes them darker in tone and tones down their upper mids. I personally think the HD 600 and HD 650 are both a bit too bright straight out of the box but very pleasant once well broken in.

 

[Tripokaridos]

Four things. The first is that your HD660S IS brighter. I don't know how much of this thread you've read but I've speculated earlier that the first 660S's were brighter than later and current production. I based that on the many early reports that the 660S was brighter than the 650 and also on Sonorworks FR graph which clearly shows that they are. Either Sonarworks graph was plain wrong (which I find hard to believe) or Sennheiser did a subtle (unannounced) update/revision. If yours are early examples they could be brighter. There's no doubt in my mind that at least the later and current production 660S have less treble energy than the 650, as shown in Solderdudes FR graph.

The second thing is that it could depend on what you mean by treble. According to Solderdudes graph the 660S does have more energy from around 10kHz to about 13kHz (although any measurement above 10kHz is generally regarded as unreliable). But you could be hearing that. Most people regard that as 'air'. What treble frequencies do you think have more energy on the 660S? Solderdudes own 'descriptors' frequency graph can be useful.

The third (and perhaps most likely) thing is that you have fresh pads on the 660S and worn pads on the 650. That could produce the result that you hear.

The fourth thing is that the 660S also have a more pronounced 'spike' or rise at around 5kHz than the 650. Given the difficulties of volume matching due to the different impedance of the two headphones and the fact that the treble energy below 5kHz is lower on the 660S, it is quite possible that you may hear this and interpret it as a more pronounced treble.

Amazing explanations thanks for that post ... My 660s are the new ones facelift 2020 and the pads are new like u said the 650 pads are worn out u are true to that also.
Again u are correct about that spike because 660s sound to me like u said more airy and also something strange on some songs 650 sounded more highs and others dont... So i guess is what u said thay spike that gives me that feeling.

Great post mike

 

[Tripokaridos]

I’m sorry, my statement about the pads was unclear and maybe a bit drastic.. by bad pads I meant original pads that have deteriorated by usage and time (and they should then be replaced by new original pads)
By bad rep I mean, some of the time when people voice it as muddy, veiled, and the like, it’s possibly due to them hearing it with bad/compressed pads. Had the pads been everlasting I think they would have got much less critique for this (albeit not zero, there is personal preference in this matter too).

One of the HD6XX I bought came with bad pads from the start for some reason. It sounded just like that, muddy, veiled, unengaging.. not at all like my other set of HD6XX (luckily I got the good set first, had the bad one been first I might have given up on the HD6XX/650 altogether). I had read that pads could be a problem so I tried replacing them with new ones directly from Sennheiser, and boom, problem gone!

Since then, I’ve made it a point to exchange the pads annually, before the get too worn. I have always kept to original pads and wouldn’t recommend anything else.

So finaly we getting somewhere old pads does make the sound more muddy.

This 650 vs 660s is harder than i thought i can hear like mike said the clearer more air on 660 and i can hear the smoother 650 that i also love but i am confused about highs ...( mike gives a good explain) most graphs that i personaly trust show that 2020 versions FL have lower highs but most people that i give them to try they say like me that sound brighter... Is it the new pads ? Is it the spike that Mike said on lower highs ? Dont know... all i know is that in the end 650 sound smoother forgiving to me and 660 sound clearer more airy like mike correct me.

 

[Tripokaridos]

I may be in the minority but I like basically all of the HD 6 line with more worn pads than new pads and whenever I get one of these headphones it often takes me a while to appreciate them as I’m not a huge fan of their sound with new pads. The HD 660 S is the only one I like straight off the bat; whereas the HD 600/650 are love/hate until they get a decent amount of pad wear, mostly because it makes them darker in tone and tones down their upper mids. I personally think the HD 600 and HD 650 are both a bit too bright straight out of the box but very pleasant once well broken in.

I have to take of the new 660s pads and place the 2 years old 650 pads on them... This must be the reason that i hear 660s more bright.

 

[Krutsch]

...

Since then, I’ve made it a point to exchange the pads annually, before the get too worn. I have always kept to original pads and wouldn’t recommend anything else.

I don't know about annually, but I've replaced the pads on my HD-650 twice over the years ... highly recommend doing that and using genuine Sennheiser pads.

 

[mmq2404]

@Tripokaridos
Actually I'm the one that has the brighter HD660s, my cans are boosted upper-high around 10-14KHz, using EQ to tame these freqs will affect the sound in a good way. My cans are Romania 2019 version.
My colleague's HD660s are don't (tried pads swapping)

 

[Majestyk]

@Tripokaridos
Actually I'm the one that has the brighter HD660s, my cans are boosted upper-high around 10-14KHz, using EQ to tame these freqs will affect the sound in a good way. My cans are Romania 2019 version.
My colleague's HD660s are don't (tried pads swapping)

Are you located in the US or Canada? I'm selling my Ireland pair that I got from Amazon Canada in February. (Selling my new Romania pair too)

 

[CaptainFantastic]

Are you located in the US or Canada? I'm selling my Ireland pair that I got from Amazon Canada in February. (Selling my new Romania pair too)

May ask why you are selling both (and presumably all) pairs of your 660S? Found something better? Convinced you never need to enjoy them again?

 

[audiobot]

Do these power well 4.4 balanced off the Sony Walkman NW-ZX507? Thanks in advance.

 

[Majestyk]

May ask why you are selling both (and presumably all) pairs of your 660S? Found something better? Convinced you never need to enjoy them again?

I just found the 300 ohm Sennheisers are a better fit for my vintage receivers. The 150ohm 660S is just too laid back sounding I kind of liked it at first but when I went back to my 600's, I much preferred them for my Yamaha receiver...espeically when I put my old pads back on. They sound so much better than the new ones...which is one advantage of the 600's. The older the pads get, the better they sound.

 

[CaptainFantastic]

Take of the foam and place it in a paper make the shape with a pen and then place the visaton on the paper and cut it.
I said a little bigger because the foam inside when u take it of it will have a conical form that is happenes from the pads pressure thats why , if u press them down to the paper and make the oval with the pen then there is no need to make it.bigger.

I got some tailor's chalk and finally did this. Thanks. They look absolutely great now without that cheap foam. I swear they sound a bit different too, a bit louder and a bit crisper, all positive so far.

Thanks @Tripokaridos .

 

[Tripokaridos]

I got some tailor's chalk and finally did this. Thanks. They look absolutely great now without that cheap foam. I swear they sound a bit different too, a bit louder and a bit crisper, all positive so far.

Thanks @Tripokaridos .

Happy that u like it... They do look way better compared with cheap foam. The best would be to find this amazing Fabric with Sennheiser logo that Sennheiser use but then again this fabric was the best that i have tried until now.