[phthora]

Pleth,

I was rolling along with ya till you said......>"I dont mind them taking so long".....
Really?.. omg.
...You actually like to wait for years for such a product as this to show up, after the 600 and 650 were already top notch and this one is better but not 2x better.....just "improved"?
What if you are 60 yrs old....should you have to wait till you are 72, for Senn to create their next slight upgrade?
See, life is subjective like that, and , if you are at one end of it, then waiting is not so bad, but if you are at the other end of it, you'll likely be dead before Senn creates the HD665Z
Thats not right.

And how can you actually believe that this is a HD700 upgrade.
I could see your point as valid, if the chassis or the ear cup was the HD700, but this is clearly not that one by design
And also, the HD700 actually sounds nothing like the HD6 series, and that includes the 660S.

If I was SENN, I would discontinue and pull the HD700 from the catalog as its the "3rd wheel" in their lineup, and instead create a killer $5-800 S-Planar, as everyone would want this one.
The fact is, if you are a headphone company that is very established, and you are not creating a secondary line of Planar headphones 5 yrs ago, then your head is not in the game.

FurrBlight,

There are other companies that make headphones. Good ones, even. Finding an improvement over the HD650 has never been impossible. So, I don't really care how long Sennheiser takes, I still have options.

Also, you suggest yourself that Sennheiser should pull the HD700. Well, that is the sense in which I think of the 660S as its replacement. Simply that because the 660S exists I am no longer interested in the HD700.

 

[kman1211]

Pleth,

I was rolling along with ya till you said......>"I dont mind them taking so long".....
Really?.. omg.
...You actually like to wait for years for such a product as this to show up, after the 600 and 650 were already top notch and this one is better but not 2x better.....just "improved"?
What if you are 60 yrs old....should you have to wait till you are 72, for Senn to create their next slight upgrade?
See, life is subjective like that, and , if you are at one end of it, then waiting is not so bad, but if you are at the other end of it, you'll likely be dead before Senn creates the HD665Z
Thats not right.

And how can you actually believe that this is a HD700 upgrade.
I could see your point as valid, if the chassis or the ear cup was the HD700, but this is clearly not that one by design
And also, the HD700 actually sounds nothing like the HD6 series, and that includes the 660S.

If I was SENN, I would discontinue and pull the HD700 from the catalog as its the "3rd wheel" in their lineup, and instead create a killer $5-800 S-Planar, as everyone would want this one.
The fact is, if you are a headphone company that is very established, and you are not creating a secondary line of Planar headphones 5 yrs ago, then your head is not in the game.

Honestly I don't think Sennheiser will release a planar, nor would AKG or Beyer. I'm sure Sennheiser and Beyer have tinkered with the idea, maybe even made some prototypes, I know AKG made a prototype and they shelved it. I'd much rather Sennheiser makes a more affordable electrostatic headphone as they already have expertise in this area. The HE-60 and HE-90 are without question the best Sennheisers I've ever heard.

 

[FullBright1]

Agree, Audeze is the worst. They are constantly changing the sound over time.

Now there is a company (Audeze) that I cant hear correctly.
Or maybe its their headphones.
Ive tried to love them, and I do not.
But I will say, they are a fantastic company to deal with, If you hit a technological snag regarding one of their units and need a new one.
They will ship it right out, and they dont require you to jump through any of their hoops first.
I almost bought their Sine, a few times, but I have this feeling its a sizzle stick for your ears, and I just can't deal with "on ear" gear.

 

[FullBright1]

FurrBlight,

There are other companies that make headphones. Good ones, even. Finding an improvement over the HD650 has never been impossible. So, I don't really care how long Sennheiser takes, I still have options.

Also, you suggest yourself that Sennheiser should pull the HD700. Well, that is the sense in which I think of the 660S as its replacement. Simply that because the 660S I am no longer interested in the HD700.

You think that there is no headphone that is an improvement over the HD650?
Im certain you didn't mean to say that
The reason being.....every company that is known for headphones, has a few that are improvements over any of these HD headphones.
Senn themselves has better phones, but, for the money, for the value......this is what makes the HD6 series such a wonder.
Its just a matter of paying for that 3%, if you want to get that Stax, or that $4000 Focal.
Id submit to you that the Beyer T1, has the same issue with its treble that the 650 has with its bass......its too much, but, other then that, the T! is a better headphone sound.
There are a few like that, but, in the end, when you adjust down the price as per value, then you cant really beat a fine sound @$400 with a slightly finer sound for $1400.
Thats how I see it.
And also, if you are powering any set of headphones with junk, then just close the gate and get a better hobby, as the entire signal chain really does matter.
A lot.

 

[FullBright1]

Honestly I don't think Sennheiser will release a planar, nor would AKG or Beyer. I'm sure Sennheiser and Beyer have tinkered with the idea, maybe even made some prototypes, I know AKG made a prototype and they shelved it. I'd much rather Sennheiser makes a more affordable electrostatic headphone as they already have expertise in this area. The HE-60 and HE-90 are without question the best Sennheisers I've ever heard.

They must.
They must make a Planar, as the market is rabid.

For example.....I just sold as 2 sets of headphones as a package deal, a K712pro, and a Monolith 1060.
I had people jumping out of trees and climbing up walls contacting me to...... "let me buy the 1060, let me buy the 1060".
No-one cared about the K712, and that is not just because its that model.
Senn, AKG, and all others need to get a Planar in the hands of the peoples....

Just look at the Sundara.
More climbing walls to get them.
I ordered the Sundara and a Canon G1X Mk2 the very day that Amazon listed them both, and I was not among the first to receive the Sundara.
People love Planars.

 

[phthora]

You think that there is no headphone that is an improvement over the HD650?
Im certain you didn't mean to say that

Well, I didn't say that.

Finding an improvement over the HD650 has never been impossible.

The reason being.....every company that is known for headphones, has a few that are improvements over any of these HD headphones.
Senn themselves has better phones, but, for the money, for the value......this is what makes the HD6 series such a wonder.
Its just a matter of paying for that 3%, if you want to get that Stax, or that $4000 Focal.
Id submit to you that the Beyer T1, has the same issue with its treble that the 650 has with its bass......its too much, but, other then that, the T! is a better headphone sound.
There are a few like that, but, in the end, when you adjust down the price as per value, then you cant really beat a fine sound @$400 with a slightly finer sound for $1400.
Thats how I see it.
And also, if you are powering any set of headphones with junk, then just close the gate and get a better hobby, as the entire signal chain really does matter.
A lot.

The reason that HD600 and HD650 are such a great value now has a lot to do with the fact that they have been on the market so long. R&D costs have been recovered, marketing is unnecessary, they are a ubiquitous presence in audio, and Sennheiser no longer can control the lowest advertised price like they used to. Something to weigh against the clamoring for a new product every couple of years.

And, I will have to disagree with your 3% comment. Placing a percentage on relative headphone quality is always an odd translation, but disregarding that, Stax 007 and 009 or Focal Utopia represent a massive improvement in sound over the HD650. It's not even close. At $400, there are many options that are competitive, depending on personal taste and needs. Personally, I have never found the 650 worth its price, else I would already own it.

 

[pietcux]

And I thought this thread was about the HD660S somehow....

 

[FullBright1]

Well, I didn't say that.

The reason that HD600 and HD650 are such a great value now has a lot to do with the fact that they have been on the market so long. R&D costs have been recovered, marketing is unnecessary, they are a ubiquitous presence in audio, and Sennheiser no longer can control the lowest advertised price like they used to. Something to weigh against the clamoring for a new product every couple of years.

And, I will have to disagree with your 3% comment. Placing a percentage on relative headphone quality is always an odd translation, but disregarding that, Stax 007 and 009 or Focal Utopia represent a massive improvement in sound over the HD650. It's not even close. At $400, there are many options that are competitive, depending on personal taste and needs. Personally, I have never found the 650 worth its price, else I would already own it.

-
Nope you didn't say that, and I didn't think you meant to ..

Also, you seem to be saying, by implication, that if someone built a Ford Model T, 100 yrs ago, and the market loved it, and R&D was compensated thrice over, and everybody on the planet bought one to drive, then that proves there is no need to create a Camaro or a Tesla or a Volkswagen.
Well, I can't agree with. your ummmm, hair pinned to the past ideas as the most valid, but I can agree that you have a right to live back there with Lucy and Neanderthal Man and Stegosaurus and Tarzan.
Jethro Tull however, wrote a song about you, or at least I'll dedicate it to your philosophy regarding "no need to improve anything, lets just all lay around and use the old stuff"..... its called "Living In The Past".
And I dont think the HD660s were used during the tracking or the mixing.

Sorry that I can't post the Tull video here for you.

 

[Slim1970]

And I thought this thread was about the HD660S somehow....

Seriously, there has been very little review talk about HD660S lately. I would love to read about a comparison to something other than the HD600 or HD650.....

 

[kman1211]

I did do a comparison of the HD 660 S and Amiron Home a few months back.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sen...view-and-brief-comparison-amiron-home.869944/

 

[Slim1970]

I did do a comparison of the HD 660 S and Amiron Home a few months back.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sen...view-and-brief-comparison-amiron-home.869944/

Nice review @kman1211!!

 

[FullBright1]

Seriously, there has been very little review talk about HD660S lately. I would love to read about a comparison to something other than the HD600 or HD650.....

Ok, how about this.
The sound of the 660S, is exactly not the sound of the HiFiMann H560.
Day and night.
Black and white.
Up and down.

the HFM H560, is the headphone that pulled the HD600 off of TYLL's wall of fame and stomped on it, then replaced it.

Recently, I think the Sundara become the next in line to take that coveted spot. ???????????????
He put it somewhere on the wall.

I have a love - hate affair with the H560....in that I love the sound and the feel of the headphone on my head, but i hate the missing midrange,....... and this is the glory of the HD660S.
The mids.

 

[donlin]

Ok, how about this.
The sound of the 660S, is exactly not the sound of the HiFiMann H560.
Day and night.
Black and white.
Up and down.

the HFM H560, is the headphone that pulled the HD600 off of TYLL's wall of fame and stomped on it, then replaced it.

Recently, I think the Sundara become the next in line to take that coveted spot. ???????????????
He put it somewhere on the wall.

I have a love - hate affair with the H560....in that I love the sound and the feel of the headphone on my head, but i hate the missing midrange,....... and this is the glory of the HD660S.
The mids.

But the HD600 is currently on the wall of fame and the HE560 is not.

 

[phthora]

-
Nope you didn't say that, and I didn't think you meant to ..

Also, you seem to be saying, by implication, that if someone built a Ford Model T, 100 yrs ago, and the market loved it, and R&D was compensated thrice over, and everybody on the planet bought one to drive, then that proves there is no need to create a Camaro or a Tesla or a Volkswagen.
Well, I can't agree with. your ummmm, hair pinned to the past ideas as the most valid, but I can agree that you have a right to live back there with Lucy and Neanderthal Man and Stegosaurus and Tarzan.
Jethro Tull however, wrote a song about you, or at least I'll dedicate it to your philosophy regarding "no need to improve anything, lets just all lay around and use the old stuff"..... its called "Living In The Past".
And I dont think the HD660s were used during the tracking or the mixing.

Sorry that I can't post the Tull video here for you.

So, after implying there is only a "3%" difference between the HD650 and, to use your example, a Stax 009, you then cannot understand why the 650 has been lingering on the market so long? Plus, a 15 year life-span is not so long in audio, considering how great a market there is for things like vintage equipment, NOS tubes, etc., or the fact that the standard for audio quality for encoding was set in 1979.

But, you don't actually seem interested in listening to anyone, as you parse others' words uncharitably, argue against strawmen, and stoop to insults to bolster your point.

 

[phthora]

But the HD600 is currently on the wall of fame and the HE560 is not.

I am often puzzled by Tyll's conclusions. The 560 review is an example of that, but more to the point, I wonder how much his review of the 660S relies on nostalgia for the 650? I've seen more than one review (his might be among them) that stated outright that if it weren't for previous experience with the 650 the 660S would have rated higher. Not to doubt anyone's integrity here, but I wonder if there is a real concern about expectation bias.