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Sennheiser HD650 & Massdrop HD6XX Impressions Thread
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MattTCG
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I like that album, but have not listened to it in quite some time nor with the hd650. I'll have to give it a listen.
IEMCrazy
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Quote:
I've been enjoying reading your impressions. It's about time that you finally tried the HD650 again! You really needed these in your collection, and I had the impression that in the past, your chain was just not doing them the justice they deserve!
I'll add though that of the three sets of HD650 drivers I've heard (other than the old black silk ones), all sounded spot-on-identical to me. To me it has one of the least manufacturing variance among headphones out there, so I'm surprised to hear you've had such difference. Were any of yours the old black silk? That would explain a lot...
I've been enjoying reading your impressions. It's about time that you finally tried the HD650 again! You really needed these in your collection, and I had the impression that in the past, your chain was just not doing them the justice they deserve!
I'll add though that of the three sets of HD650 drivers I've heard (other than the old black silk ones), all sounded spot-on-identical to me. To me it has one of the least manufacturing variance among headphones out there, so I'm surprised to hear you've had such difference. Were any of yours the old black silk? That would explain a lot...
tdockweiler
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
Yeah this pair is still kind of off the usual consensus of how people describe the HD-650. It's a bit weird. This one is not "sleepy" or "laid-back" at all really. It actually sounds more balanced than the HD-600. Someone in here once said this too and I thought he was nuts. Now..not so much. I still can't find this mid-bass hump everyone keeps describing. Maybe it's just very, very accurate bass. No bassy songs automatically sound bassier than they should. This pair seems to sound exactly how it measures on Inner Fidelity. I was always baffled by how flat his HD-650 measured (except for maybe in the treble a bit). I guess it does however make some very warm recordings slightly warmer, but doesn't ruin them. On my old pair it almost got to be like a big congested mess. Lots of bass bleed, but the same songs now have none of that. The 650 I have is the silver screened version.
The Headroom Micro is great with the HD-650 I have actually! I'm not sure if you've noticed, but Tyll just measured a bunch of them. I'm guessing mine is pretty similar (measuring ruler flat). I've read a few old reviews and some claim they're warm sounding amps. I actually don't think this, but maybe a very very slight touch of warmth (on this one). I think i'd have to have golden ears to detect this. I think this is only in comparison to the E9 though (and maybe the O2?). The Asgard based on memory seemed warmer. Maybe that's why I liked the HD-600 with the Asgard, but preferred the HD-650 with the E9? The mids of the Q701 on the Headroom Micro seem a bit fuller than with the E9. Not sure why. The E9 has always felt treble happy to me, but yet it actually has rolled off treble and bass (so slight I shouldn't even say this!).
This may sound hard to believe, but my amp does not like any surge protector with noise filtering. On my DJ100 with this Belkin home theater $40 surge protector the sound is all muffled and too bassy. It's barely detectable on very many headphones. Maybe this could have been the cause of why the old 650 was so bassy? I don't think it would have made me not like it, but I guess it's possible. I don't want to know how long I had this surge protector in use! I mean it wasn't that bad, but was screwing up the sound of a few headphones. I think I need to upgrade to the Astrodyne power supply for my amp. I read up on this and this might not have occurred with this power supply. Not sure what caused it! There's a technical reason, but I forget.
Strangely enough I think the ODAC is the primary reason it sounds the way it does. I can pretty much guarantee I wouldn't like it with the HRT MSII I had. I preferred that with AKG headphones or anything that's brighter sounding. That thing is amazing with the KRKs. I even prefer the ODAC with the Q701. It actually became more balanced sounding when I got the ODAC.
Right now i'm liking this HD-650 as much as the Q701 and DJ100. More than the 580 and 600 by far. I know this sounds silly and it's been said a million times, but there is actually stuff in recordings i've been listening to for years that i've heard for the first time. I think the ODAC played a role here and they said the HD-650 is no detail monster. Some headphones make every song sound good, but the HD-650 doesn't do this as much as people say (with my setup). I have this old 128kbps mp3 that sounds awful on every headphone. With this one it's actually the worst. Despite how bad it sounds with this recording, it's not fatiguing in any range. That slight low mid hump actually has smoothed itself out (I think).
Maybe this idea of the 650 scaling up with equipment upgrades isn't really nonsense after all!
BTW what makes no sense to me is that the HD-600 seems to have more of a mid-bass hump. The 650 has more bass overall (including sub-bass), but sometimes it likes to hide this fact (my Q701 does this too!). Maybe it's just that the 650's bass is better controlled and more accurate than the 600. Who knows. My KRKs and DJ100 also love to trick people into thinking they're bass light, but they're really not. I can't imagine though still than the 650 would be good for any sort of bass-head.
I've been enjoying reading your impressions. It's about time that you finally tried the HD650 again! You really needed these in your collection, and I had the impression that in the past, your chain was just not doing them the justice they deserve!
I'll add though that of the three sets of HD650 drivers I've heard (other than the old black silk ones), all sounded spot-on-identical to me. To me it has one of the least manufacturing variance among headphones out there, so I'm surprised to hear you've had such difference. Were any of yours the old black silk? That would explain a lot...
Yeah this pair is still kind of off the usual consensus of how people describe the HD-650. It's a bit weird. This one is not "sleepy" or "laid-back" at all really. It actually sounds more balanced than the HD-600. Someone in here once said this too and I thought he was nuts. Now..not so much. I still can't find this mid-bass hump everyone keeps describing. Maybe it's just very, very accurate bass. No bassy songs automatically sound bassier than they should. This pair seems to sound exactly how it measures on Inner Fidelity. I was always baffled by how flat his HD-650 measured (except for maybe in the treble a bit). I guess it does however make some very warm recordings slightly warmer, but doesn't ruin them. On my old pair it almost got to be like a big congested mess. Lots of bass bleed, but the same songs now have none of that. The 650 I have is the silver screened version.
The Headroom Micro is great with the HD-650 I have actually! I'm not sure if you've noticed, but Tyll just measured a bunch of them. I'm guessing mine is pretty similar (measuring ruler flat). I've read a few old reviews and some claim they're warm sounding amps. I actually don't think this, but maybe a very very slight touch of warmth (on this one). I think i'd have to have golden ears to detect this. I think this is only in comparison to the E9 though (and maybe the O2?). The Asgard based on memory seemed warmer. Maybe that's why I liked the HD-600 with the Asgard, but preferred the HD-650 with the E9? The mids of the Q701 on the Headroom Micro seem a bit fuller than with the E9. Not sure why. The E9 has always felt treble happy to me, but yet it actually has rolled off treble and bass (so slight I shouldn't even say this!).
This may sound hard to believe, but my amp does not like any surge protector with noise filtering. On my DJ100 with this Belkin home theater $40 surge protector the sound is all muffled and too bassy. It's barely detectable on very many headphones. Maybe this could have been the cause of why the old 650 was so bassy? I don't think it would have made me not like it, but I guess it's possible. I don't want to know how long I had this surge protector in use! I mean it wasn't that bad, but was screwing up the sound of a few headphones. I think I need to upgrade to the Astrodyne power supply for my amp. I read up on this and this might not have occurred with this power supply. Not sure what caused it! There's a technical reason, but I forget.
Strangely enough I think the ODAC is the primary reason it sounds the way it does. I can pretty much guarantee I wouldn't like it with the HRT MSII I had. I preferred that with AKG headphones or anything that's brighter sounding. That thing is amazing with the KRKs. I even prefer the ODAC with the Q701. It actually became more balanced sounding when I got the ODAC.
Right now i'm liking this HD-650 as much as the Q701 and DJ100. More than the 580 and 600 by far. I know this sounds silly and it's been said a million times, but there is actually stuff in recordings i've been listening to for years that i've heard for the first time. I think the ODAC played a role here and they said the HD-650 is no detail monster. Some headphones make every song sound good, but the HD-650 doesn't do this as much as people say (with my setup). I have this old 128kbps mp3 that sounds awful on every headphone. With this one it's actually the worst. Despite how bad it sounds with this recording, it's not fatiguing in any range. That slight low mid hump actually has smoothed itself out (I think).
Maybe this idea of the 650 scaling up with equipment upgrades isn't really nonsense after all!
BTW what makes no sense to me is that the HD-600 seems to have more of a mid-bass hump. The 650 has more bass overall (including sub-bass), but sometimes it likes to hide this fact (my Q701 does this too!). Maybe it's just that the 650's bass is better controlled and more accurate than the 600. Who knows. My KRKs and DJ100 also love to trick people into thinking they're bass light, but they're really not. I can't imagine though still than the 650 would be good for any sort of bass-head.
TMRaven
Headphoneus Supremus
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That might've been me you considered nuts. My initial reactions to the HD650 were, not laid back at all, not rolled off at all, not muffled at all. Very flat-ish. I know of a couple people who thought I was crazy for saying that.
BobJS
Headphoneus Supremus
I'm driving my HD650 and HD600 with a dragonfly dac, either directly, or through a JDS O2 or a Schiit Asgaard. In all cases, I just cannot see how anyone could call the HD650 more balanced than the HD600. It's just not. I'm trying to prefer it..... but I just don't. Maybe on sub-par recordings, the 650 will boost the bass and roll off the crappy highs and make it sound nicer, but, overall, I'm fighting the urge to sell the 650s in favor of the HD600 ..... so that I don't have to find myself trying to buy it back again later !!!
Velocity
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Quote:
Im with you here.The HD650 will never get more balanced than the HD600. Once I got the HD600 i sold my HD650s, had no use for them at all. I cant barley understand that I lived with my HD650 for one year without knowing about the HD600s. Its not that the HD650 are bad though, they are fun.
But its like the HD650s try to much. Soundstage is bigger, but a bit fuzzier in some kind of way.. Mids are more forward, making it less neutral than the HD600s.
You would think that anything the HD650 does better may be more laidback music then but the only music I actually though HD650 did better was Rock, like Iron Maiden, Metallica, etc.
Someone said that comparing HD650 with HD600 its like comparing Coffee with cream or just only Coffee.
Im with you here.The HD650 will never get more balanced than the HD600. Once I got the HD600 i sold my HD650s, had no use for them at all. I cant barley understand that I lived with my HD650 for one year without knowing about the HD600s. Its not that the HD650 are bad though, they are fun.
But its like the HD650s try to much. Soundstage is bigger, but a bit fuzzier in some kind of way.. Mids are more forward, making it less neutral than the HD600s.
You would think that anything the HD650 does better may be more laidback music then but the only music I actually though HD650 did better was Rock, like Iron Maiden, Metallica, etc.
Someone said that comparing HD650 with HD600 its like comparing Coffee with cream or just only Coffee.
alv4426
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I have a update on my HD650, this past weekend I went to LA and fixed my friends car and he decided to give me a brand new pair instead of waiting for the parts (he is gonna keep my old pair and fix them for himself). And to me there is a big difference in sound with the new compared to the old (NOTE: my old pair was really junky). My old pair were very old i think they are from an early batch and it really showed. SQ wise these new ones no longer have loose bass, sound clearer to me, and I can now hear soundstage (I think flat pads account for this) + I dont get paint chips on my head everytime I wear them. Very very happy I went through 9 hours under as bimmer for these (with like 40 beer breaks of course)
.
snapple10
Headphoneus Supremus
sounds like win-win story to me. Enjoy!
tdockweiler
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
I would have said the same exact things when I had my old pair. I know it makes no sense to me either why this one sounds so balanced. I mean, not neutral like a studio monitor.
This one actually feels like it has more controlled bass(!) and more forward lower mids. It really doesn't seem to have any less treble than the 600 I have (with stock cable). A little bit less.
They say the HD-600 has more forward upper mids, but it sure didn't sound that way.
I remember when I had the HD-600 I got the HD-650 and then compared them both for hours. The 600 was definitely a better fit for me with the setup I had (Asgard and E9). I think I ended up selling the 650 and sticking with the HD-600.
A month later I tried again, but was able to just return the 650 within a few days. Not sure why, but despite the bloated bass, I always preferred vocals of any kind with the HD-650.
What's stupid to admit is that I actually bought an amp specifically for the HD-650 and K702 and I ended up getting rid of both of those! Should have bought a better DAC instead. I was basically in my CD only phase.
I clearly remember playing Fallout New Vegas and it felt like the bass was so bloated that it made the game nearly unplayable. Kind of like this fog over the entire sound. Not as bad with music, but close.
It never felt too dark until playing video games.
This pair actually sounds close to my Q701 (not K702!!!), but with a tad more bass and more chopped off treble
Obviously "thicker" mids, but the mids on my Q701 are not thin or lacking.
To make matters worse, this 650 actually sounds less veiled and a lot more clear than the HD-600. Makes no sense!
BTW my 650 sounds closer to the 580 than the 600. 580 is very slightly different than the 600 IMO. Despite them having the same driver.
EDIT: I was just checking for some graphs a half hour later and came across these. Pretty interesting! I don't trust graphs at all and don't know how reliable the GE graphs are:
I would have said the same exact things when I had my old pair. I know it makes no sense to me either why this one sounds so balanced. I mean, not neutral like a studio monitor.
This one actually feels like it has more controlled bass(!) and more forward lower mids. It really doesn't seem to have any less treble than the 600 I have (with stock cable). A little bit less.
They say the HD-600 has more forward upper mids, but it sure didn't sound that way.
I remember when I had the HD-600 I got the HD-650 and then compared them both for hours. The 600 was definitely a better fit for me with the setup I had (Asgard and E9). I think I ended up selling the 650 and sticking with the HD-600.
A month later I tried again, but was able to just return the 650 within a few days. Not sure why, but despite the bloated bass, I always preferred vocals of any kind with the HD-650.
What's stupid to admit is that I actually bought an amp specifically for the HD-650 and K702 and I ended up getting rid of both of those! Should have bought a better DAC instead. I was basically in my CD only phase.
I clearly remember playing Fallout New Vegas and it felt like the bass was so bloated that it made the game nearly unplayable. Kind of like this fog over the entire sound. Not as bad with music, but close.
It never felt too dark until playing video games.
This pair actually sounds close to my Q701 (not K702!!!), but with a tad more bass and more chopped off treble
To make matters worse, this 650 actually sounds less veiled and a lot more clear than the HD-600. Makes no sense!
BTW my 650 sounds closer to the 580 than the 600. 580 is very slightly different than the 600 IMO. Despite them having the same driver.
EDIT: I was just checking for some graphs a half hour later and came across these. Pretty interesting! I don't trust graphs at all and don't know how reliable the GE graphs are:
BobJS
Headphoneus Supremus
@tdockweiler ..... maybe your new 650 is actually a 600 built into a 650 housing !!!
tdockweiler
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
danggit..it is! I should have known better than to buy on Ebay
Ok, not really, but I wonder what that would sound like.
Sometime I should try putting my plastic HD-580 grills on the HD-650. Maybe it will sound like the old HD-650 I had
I actually don't like the HD-600 until I mod it. Without mods I hate it's bass. I'm too picky I think. Sounds much better with no grill or 580 grills. Putting foam on the rear of the driver actually gives it more neutral bass.
Yeah, isn't that weird. I hate the bass of the 600 and think it has too much, but i'm fine with the HD-650's bass. How dumb is that?
Lately I've becoming more and more of a believer that variations between pairs of the same model of headphone exist more than we think. Maybe I have the bass neutral HD-650 (ok, not really neutral). You know one time I had a bass light DT-770 600. Actually not bass light, but more neutral than other pairs. The DT-700 600 I had once was the flattest sounding headphone I ever had. I mean this is impossible! Supposed to be totally V-shaped right? It sounded more neutral than the DT-880 for sure..
I scored it for like $120 on Amazon from a return..
@tdockweiler ..... maybe your new 650 is actually a 600 built into a 650 housing !!!
danggit..it is! I should have known better than to buy on Ebay
Ok, not really, but I wonder what that would sound like.
Sometime I should try putting my plastic HD-580 grills on the HD-650. Maybe it will sound like the old HD-650 I had
I actually don't like the HD-600 until I mod it. Without mods I hate it's bass. I'm too picky I think. Sounds much better with no grill or 580 grills. Putting foam on the rear of the driver actually gives it more neutral bass.
Yeah, isn't that weird. I hate the bass of the 600 and think it has too much, but i'm fine with the HD-650's bass. How dumb is that?
Lately I've becoming more and more of a believer that variations between pairs of the same model of headphone exist more than we think. Maybe I have the bass neutral HD-650 (ok, not really neutral). You know one time I had a bass light DT-770 600. Actually not bass light, but more neutral than other pairs. The DT-700 600 I had once was the flattest sounding headphone I ever had. I mean this is impossible! Supposed to be totally V-shaped right? It sounded more neutral than the DT-880 for sure..
I scored it for like $120 on Amazon from a return..
Zapp Brannigan
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A bit disappointed with them to be honest. I've been driving them using the pico amp/dac & they are loud enough at around 40% volume but they sound nowhere near as good as the ultrasone ed-8's(yes, I'm aware that they cost almost twice what the HD650's do).
IEMCrazy
Longwindeus Supremus
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Quote:
That's what I've been trying to tell TMRaven for months...he won't believe me!
@tdockweiler ..... maybe your new 650 is actually a 600 built into a 650 housing !!!
That's what I've been trying to tell TMRaven for months...he won't believe me!
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