[ardilla]

I've been spoiling my ears with the LCD-2,3, HE-500 and 007 lately. HD650 hasn't had much run time, I was getting afraid I had "moved beyond" it.. 
 
But when I plugged the HD650 into the Woo WA22 today, my jaws dropped. 

 

[weitn]

Quote:

I've been spoiling my ears with the LCD-2,3, HE-500 and 007 lately. HD650 hasn't had much run time, I was getting afraid I had "moved beyond" it.. 
 
But when I plugged the HD650 into the Woo WA22 today, my jaws dropped. 

 
Why is that? Eager to know more details.

 

[ardilla]

The WA22 pushes the HD650 to a new frontier (for me). Faster, deeper, tighter, more headroom, better imaging, separation. I switched back to he LCD-3 (my favorite the last month or two) -and found it suddenly a bit boring... This is of course depending on the music, mood, habituation etc... - but Ave Maria!! - the HD650 really can play with the tops in a proper setup. I may add that I'm using only cheapo tubes in the WA22 at the moment. 
Quote:

 
Why is that? Eager to know more details.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

The WA22 pushes the HD650 to a new frontier (for me). Faster, deeper, tighter, more headroom, better imaging, separation. I switched back to he LCD-3 (my favorite the last month or two) -and found it suddenly a bit boring... This is of course depending on the music, mood, habituation etc... - but Ave Maria!! - the HD650 really can play with the tops in a proper setup. I may add that I'm using only cheapo tubes in the WA22 at the moment. 

 
... even with the WA6 SEm - simply superb in all respects!
 
Equals, or betters, the best!

 

[ardilla]

 Jupp. You won't waste your high end amp on the HD650 - that's for sure.
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... even with the WA6 SEm - simply superb in all respects!
 
Equals, or betters, the best!

 

[IEMCrazy]

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I run my HD 650 with stock cabel through M1 HPA + v-dac II . Absolutley no veil and 100% enjoyment. The sound is big as ****! Love this setup. 

 
+1.  "Veil" has more to do with amp than cable IMO.  I've had the "veil" on some amps with good cables (Cardas, gray), and no veil on other amps with the stock cable.  It's an impedance matching thing mostly, and maybe a bit of voltage swing on some amps. It's amazing that a decade later the word "veil" still pops up with these. Yes they're odd in that the wrong amp is an issue for them, though HD800 is said to be the same way if not worse, but there's enough HD650 fans here that picking an amp recommended by one rather than an amp not recommended by one shouldn't be challenging for the new HD650 owner

 
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Same here, I've run the HD650 on a E9 and Burson and I experience no veil with stock cable.  Even compared to the HE-500 there was no veil... more grain on the HD650 but not veiled to my ears.

 
IMO both HiFiMan planars and Senns love tubes.  I have no grain issues on HD650 nor HE-400.  Both are silky smooth, with HD650 having the edge in detail and air while HE-400 has the edge in body and dynamics. Honestly even O2 is smooth smooth with them, though both cans pick up a slight grain.   Wje said HE-500 was a bit smoother than HE-400, but I'm not sure if he was referring to grain or not.  IMO, on tubes, "grain" goes out the window on most cans, but especially so with 650.
 
Quote:

I've been spoiling my ears with the LCD-2,3, HE-500 and 007 lately. HD650 hasn't had much run time, I was getting afraid I had "moved beyond" it.. 
 
But when I plugged the HD650 into the Woo WA22 today, my jaws dropped. 

 
Very cool story

   "Mid-fi"....pfffft...
 
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 Jupp. You won't waste your high end amp on the HD650 - that's for sure.

Heck, HD650 made half the high-end amp industry!

 

[ardilla]

You're into something there...
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Heck, HD650 made half the high-end amp industry!

 

[nicholars]

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Very cool story

   "Mid-fi"....pfffft...
 
Heck, HD650 made half the high-end amp industry!

 
Yes I find it quite annoying how people affix a bracket to headphones based on price... "low fi" "mid fi" "hi fi".... It is very silly tbh.... Come on clearly the HD650 are HIFI headphones.... 8 years ago people would be saying that they were "hi fi" now that they have decreased in price they are suddenly "mid fi" very silly imo.

 

[sphinxvc]

Isn't that more you projecting your conclusions?  HD650's are mid-fi today because we have better phones around.  It has nothing to do with price.

 

[kostalex]

I consider HD650 as hifi. There are no many better cans to me.

 

[nicholars]

Quote:

Isn't that more you projecting your conclusions?  HD650's are mid-fi today because we have better phones around.  It has nothing to do with price.

 
Ah right so the HD650 which was a flagship initially and many amps have been built around these headphones etc.... Are now suddenly "mid fi" because other more expensive headphones with different sound signatures have come out? I mean really the HD650 actual sound quality is still HIFI. It is not suddenly MIDFI because some other headphones with different sound signatures have come out. You could argue that the LCD3 is also MIDFI in that case because it has recessed treble. Under the same logic you could say the HD800 is also MIDFI because it is too bright and can sound harsh, same with the Beyerdynamic tesla. LOADS of people agree that the HD650 actual sound quality is still up there with more expensive headphones, just the more expensive headphones have different sound signatures.... Labelling them "mid fi" is silly IMO. They are clearly still upper tier headphones. I bet if the HD650 were priced at $800 people would not be spouting this sillyness about "mid fi". Also I bet if the LCD3 were $400 people would say they are "MIDFI" because they are lacking in the treble but have excellent bass etc.

 

[sridhar3]

Great, next we can debate whether aftermarket cables affect sound quality or not.  These sorts of arguments are highly pertinent to the thread topic, and are also intellectually constructive to all thread participants.  Keep up the good work guys.

 

[brokenthumb]

I tend to think of it this way... I would not call a high-definition tv a mid-definition tv just because 4k tv's are released.  A high-definition tv would still be high-definition even though something with more resolution is released.

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

I consider HD650 as hifi. There are no many better cans to me.

 
Quote:

 
Ah right so the HD650 which was a flagship initially and many amps have been built around these headphones etc.... Are now suddenly "mid fi" because other more expensive headphones with different sound signatures have come out? I mean really the HD650 actual sound quality is still HIFI. It is not suddenly MIDFI because some other headphones with different sound signatures have come out. You could argue that the LCD3 is also MIDFI in that case because it has recessed treble. Under the same logic you could say the HD800 is also MIDFI because it is too bright and can sound harsh, same with the Beyerdynamic tesla. LOADS of people agree that the HD650 actual sound quality is still up there with more expensive headphones, just the more expensive headphones have different sound signatures.... Labelling them "mid fi" is silly IMO. They are clearly still upper tier headphones. I bet if the HD650 were priced at $800 people would not be spouting this sillyness about "mid fi". Also I bet if the LCD3 were $400 people would say they are "MIDFI" because they are lacking in the treble but have excellent bass etc.

 
It's all relative.  We generally don't assess phones by tonal balance, but by driver speed and sensitivity.  In other words, resolution is usually what dictates better can, worse can--at least in this community.  So since 8 years ago, we have HD800s, Omega 2's, LCD-2s, the HE-series (some of which are really cheap), T1's, and so on.
 
Pretty much all of them are faster transducers than the HD650.  So the scale went up and hi-fi became $1K cans.  Cans with less resolution naturally fell to mid-fi, and the worst are lo-fi.  It just makes things easier to talk about.  It's nothing personal--though I'm not sure why anyone would include a can in their self-identity anyway.

 

[sphinxvc]

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I tend to think of it this way... I would not call a high-definition tv a mid-definition tv just because 4k tv's are released.  A high-definition tv would still be high-definition even though something with more resolution is released.

 
You're mixing up definitions.  HD in video is very specific--1280x720 pixels or upwards is usually called HD.  We have no such threshold defined in audio.  In audio it's just the most detail you can extract from the recording, the better.