[DavidA]

  Hi,
Sorry if it's not the right thread for this question. Because of still being unsure if I should go for Sennheiser HD650 or Beyerdynamic DT990/DT880 with mostly listening to drum & bass and trance...so low frequencies are quite important to me. From what I've read the DT990 are "very bright" I'm not sure what that means and if it's something good for electronic music. What I personally like in sound is pretty neutral but with some extra bass (so the cans can dig in to the very low sounds, without sacrificing the rest) for the genres I listen to. I don't like EQ'ing so it would be nice to buy a set of cans that sounds the way I like it without any changes. So what do you all think would be the best choice for me....too bad I have no place to test any of the headphones. Thanks in advance for answers.

I have the HD-650 and don't think they are a good match for electronic (techno?) / EDM.  The sound of the HD-650 is on the warmer side and makes a great relaxation headphone.

You might want to try the HE-400i, I think they are much better for EDM / techno, the bass hits harder and lower, the highs have a little more sparkle that make synthesizers sound crisp and clean.
 
I've never heard a DT-990/880 so I can't comment there.
 
Good luck, happy listening.

 

[kman1211]

  I have the HD-650 and don't think they are a good match for electronic (techno?) / EDM.  The sound of the HD-650 is on the warmer side and makes a great relaxation headphone.

You might want to try the HE-400i, I think they are much better for EDM / techno, the bass hits harder and lower, the highs have a little more sparkle that make synthesizers sound crisp and clean.
 
I've never heard a DT-990/880 so I can't comment there.
 
Good luck, happy listening.

I have to agree, I feel mixed about them with electronic, they shine on other genres. My favorite headphones I own for electronic is the K712(only when well amped though) and the DT 150. DT 880 was okay with electronic. The DT 990 was great though, though the treble can be a bit much at times. 

 

[Kodhifi]

So I was looking around at some of the suggested amps and I have a question. I understand why the Lyr might be significantly better because of its higher output power, the highest I've seen in a headphone amp at that price. But some of the suggested amps have far less power than my Fiio E9 and my Soundblaster E5. What makes them better? Is it just the output resistance? Like what specification should I be looking for to tell which will have better control of the 650's driver.

 

[Kodhifi]

  I have the HD-650 and don't think they are a good match for electronic (techno?) / EDM.  The sound of the HD-650 is on the warmer side and makes a great relaxation headphone.

You might want to try the HE-400i, I think they are much better for EDM / techno, the bass hits harder and lower, the highs have a little more sparkle that make synthesizers sound crisp and clean.
 
I've never heard a DT-990/880 so I can't comment there.
 
Good luck, happy listening.

I have all 4 cans. My experience
DT880 - Good midrange, effortless silky highs. Flatter, less apparent bass response.
DT990 - Classic "scoop" sound profile. Powerful bass, Crystal clear highs that verge on scratchy to some ears, veiled midrange
HE400 - Very flat compared to the others in this list. High frequency detail and harmonics are glorious, a different class. Bass is very flat but present, and extends well below 20hz, 'fast' drivers with real impact at all frequencies.
HD650 - Very warm, slightly scooped sound mostly due to slightly veiled midrange. Very nice highs and harmonics. As detailed in highs as 990 without sounding harsh like 990. The bass is more forward in the mix and slightly more midbass ~90-110hz. Doesn't result in bloated sound at all though. The 650's are incredibly musical and while not flat or analytical, they make almost anything you throw at them sound good.
 
For EDM/IDM/Dance HD650's are really good, more pronounced bass. With some EQ the 400's can deliver impressive bass and still have effortless highs. 880's not very well suited to this. 990's well suited to this.
 
Acoustic, vocals, classical - 650's again great all around. Slightly veiled midrange depending on amping. 990's midrange not so good. 880's really nice. 400's above average especially with imaging and clarity
 
Rock/metal - 650's sound amazing. Powerful without tiring your ear. 990's powerful but can tire your ear due to 8-11khz bump. 880's sound a little anemic due to bass, eq can work wonders. HE400's can shake your head without hurting your ears, bass response may be lacking depending on track but easily corrected with slight eq.
 
If you had to choose between 650 or 400 for techno and electronic, the 400's are amazingly revealing, they are in their own class, flaws in the recording are hard to bare. The 650's are robust, good bass, and have a flattering effect on about any track you throw at it. The sound greatly depends on the amp from what I've heard, haven't noticed much change going between my 3 amps.

 

[DavidA]

 
I have all 4 cans. My experience
DT880 - Good midrange, effortless silky highs. Flatter, less apparent bass response.
DT990 - Classic "scoop" sound profile. Powerful bass, Crystal clear highs that verge on scratchy to some ears, veiled midrange
HE400 - Very flat compared to the others in this list. High frequency detail and harmonics are glorious, a different class. Bass is very flat but present, and extends well below 20hz, 'fast' drivers with real impact at all frequencies.
HD650 - Very warm, slightly scooped sound mostly due to slightly veiled midrange. Very nice highs and harmonics. As detailed in highs as 990 without sounding harsh like 990. The bass is more forward in the mix and slightly more midbass ~90-110hz. Doesn't result in bloated sound at all though. The 650's are incredibly musical and while not flat or analytical, they make almost anything you throw at them sound good.
 
For EDM/IDM/Dance HD650's are really good, more pronounced bass. With some EQ the 400's can deliver impressive bass and still have effortless highs. 880's not very well suited to this. 990's well suited to this.
 
Acoustic, vocals, classical - 650's again great all around. Slightly veiled midrange depending on amping. 990's midrange not so good. 880's really nice. 400's above average especially with imaging and clarity
 
Rock/metal - 650's sound amazing. Powerful without tiring your ear. 990's powerful but can tire your ear due to 8-11khz bump. 880's sound a little anemic due to bass, eq can work wonders. HE400's can shake your head without hurting your ears, bass response may be lacking depending on track but easily corrected with slight eq.
 
If you had to choose between 650 or 400 for techno and electronic, the 400's are amazingly revealing, they are in their own class, flaws in the recording are hard to bare. The 650's are robust, good bass, and have a flattering effect on about any track you throw at it. The sound greatly depends on the amp from what I've heard, haven't noticed much change going between my 3 amps.

The HE-400 and HE-400i are different in sound signatures, the HE-400i is a much better all around headphone than the HE-400 but it you want the bass kick go with the HE-400 and find an amp that tames the highs, like a warm sounding tube amp.

 

[kman1211]

  So I was looking around at some of the suggested amps and I have a question. I understand why the Lyr might be significantly better because of its higher output power, the highest I've seen in a headphone amp at that price. But some of the suggested amps have far less power than my Fiio E9 and my Soundblaster E5. What makes them better? Is it just the output resistance? Like what specification should I be looking for to tell which will have better control of the 650's driver.

Honestly I wish I knew the technical reasons why some amps sound better than others despite seemingly lesser specs. I do have a lot of listening experience with a variety of amps though. That's why listening to the amps is key a lot of times, technical knowledge may tell you a lot, but I found there have been many times where it just fell flat on it's face with actual listening experience. There is a presentation difference of different types of amps which I have found to sound different, op-amp amps sound different than discrete ss amps. Tubes sound different than ss amps. Hybrids and OTC amps sound different than OTL amps. I think a lot of the differences and specs aren't really measured on many amps. The actual differences between amps can be exaggerated at times, but sometimes a subtle change makes all the difference for headphones. Sorry I couldn't give an answer on the actual why. I would like to know the why myself. 

 

[DavidA]

  Honestly I wish I knew the technical reasons why some amps sound better than others despite seemingly lesser specs. I do have a lot of listening experience with a variety of amps though. That's why listening to the amps is key a lot of times, technical knowledge may tell you a lot, but I found there have been many times where it just fell flat on it's face with actual listening experience. There is a presentation difference of different types of amps which I have found to sound different, op-amp amps sound different than discrete ss amps. Tubes sound different than ss amps. Hybrids and OTC amps sound different than OTL amps. I think a lot of the differences and specs aren't really measured on many amps. The actual differences between amps can be exaggerated at times, but sometimes a subtle change makes all the difference for headphones. Sorry I couldn't give an answer on the actual why. I would like to know the why myself. 

Well put, my experiences with different amp & headphone combinations seem to match yours.  I try to make my decisions to get this or that amp or headphone based on what the specification say and read through many of these threads to see what others have found.  Usually if what I read and think is a good or bad purchase is backed up by impressions and recommendations on the threads most of the time its correct.
The HD-650 was a sort of an impulse buy, many posters on these threads were doing comparison of headphones with it, seemed like it was a standard to which much is compared to so when Amazon had it for $290, just couldn't resist.  Liking the HD-650 with Lyr2 (telefunken tubes) or my Ember (either telefunken or Baldwin/Sylvania).

 

[lookingforIEMs]

Hey guys I'm freaking out. I took out the pad of my left side Just to check if I could. Now it keeps slipping and falling off. I am panicking. Help please





EDIT: Sorry guys. I derped out. I didn't push them inside hard enough to "click" the pads in place. All ' s good now

 

[kman1211]

  Well put, my experiences with different amp & headphone combinations seem to match yours.  I try to make my decisions to get this or that amp or headphone based on what the specification say and read through many of these threads to see what others have found.  Usually if what I read and think is a good or bad purchase is backed up by impressions and recommendations on the threads most of the time its correct.
The HD-650 was a sort of an impulse buy, many posters on these threads were doing comparison of headphones with it, seemed like it was a standard to which much is compared to so when Amazon had it for $290, just couldn't resist.  Liking the HD-650 with Lyr2 (telefunken tubes) or my Ember (either telefunken or Baldwin/Sylvania).

I try to buy according to measurements somewhat, though I don't always find some headphones to sound like their measurements. And some headphones don't really have measurements for them, so I have taken a chance with a few headphones. I'm less picky about amps measurement wise, though I did buy the Lyr 2 because of it's power, specs, versatility, and well it's uses tubes for it's sound, I have trouble going back to ss amps, though it depends on the headphone. I also got the Lyr 2 for the AKG K712(I didn't have the Senns back then) as I read it's a stellar match, and well it is a fantastic match. I got the HD 650 for $300 myself. I'm torn whether to keep it or not, same with a lot of my other headphones, I want to trim down a bit, I have a lot of good headphones, so I rotate headphones a lot. I'm really torn between the HD 650 and HD 600 lately. I use the Lyr 2 with GE Red Labels and Amperex Fat Bottles.

 

[castleofargh]

  So I was looking around at some of the suggested amps and I have a question. I understand why the Lyr might be significantly better because of its higher output power, the highest I've seen in a headphone amp at that price. But some of the suggested amps have far less power than my Fiio E9 and my Soundblaster E5. What makes them better? Is it just the output resistance? Like what specification should I be looking for to tell which will have better control of the 650's driver.

look for max output@1%THD into 300ohm(and why not into 600ohm if available). obviously you want enough for the hd650, but some amps will have so much max output and gain that they will force you to use it with channel imbalance on some amps(or you'll get hiss noises), so to avoid channel imbalance you will just lower the volume on the computer, eating some of the noise floor's headroom. there is nothing to win from that, so super powerful stuff mean nothing unless you need it for other headphones.
 
about suggestions, it's always the problem in here, to be forced to keep in mind that when somebody talks about great sound, he is not talking about actual signal quality. just his own particular taste. a little messy
my advice, do just like the police does when looking for testimonies. avoid any overly enthusiastic people, and anybody who feels too sure of himself. they're the most likely to get it all wrong in the end(true stuff).
 
 
 
 
the impedance is mostly a non issue on the HD650, you'll get around 0.3db boost in signature in the bass with a 30ohm output instead of 1ohm output.
150ohm amp would make about 1db change in signature. not counting the possible underdamping effects that can't be good on a hifi perspective, but who knows, maybe some would like that.

 

[onebigunion]

That's exactly what I do. If you click the link in my post to the topic thread about my 2 sets of 193 EQ presets, I specifically mention this more than once in that thread. The frequency band with the highest boost determines the equivalent precut amount. For example, in the preset "Electronic 5 Bass," 32 Hz gets a 19 dB boost (and 64 Hz gets 18.5 dB). Therefore, that preset uses a 19 dB precut. On "0 Flat 3 Bass," 32 Hz and 64 Hz each get a 9 dB boost, so that precut uses a precut of 9 dB. Click the link to that topic thread and read all about it.

Sorry, I didn't read the post you're referring too. Good that you're making the proper adjustments. I still have to wonder how well such a large boost is implemented, even in rockbox. When I've tried large boosts in the bass region with my rockbox clip it hasn't responded well. I realize your amp has a lot more power.

 

[m8o]

Somewhat new owner. I wont even consider mine 'broken in'. But, while I no longer have the patience for writing long drawn out reviews, I do have a few solid impressions that stand out to me I would like to share:

- I was amazed at how closely it reminded me of my MadDog the first time I listened, but with better high end and of course differing in the bass the most.

- the high end impresses most. Of all the Hp I own, all cost around the $300 range, this Hp excels at being able to differentiate high frequency clarity for me. Things like complex music passages (ie no silence) that contains the sound of a shaking tambourine that trails off and transitions into the sound of the drummer striking the small cymbals with near identical timbre, and modulation rate, but different. This Hp of all I own presents that transition in difference in timbre the clearest and most noticibly to these aging ears affected by exposure to a lot of loud music over their years.

- I'm impressed with how efficient they are and given their high impedance, how well my FiiO E17 can drive and control them.

- I may never listen to my DT880 again.

- no surprise given their totally open nature, but these do bleed what I listen to into the environment around me the most of all the Hp I own.

- I would like more bass/mid-bass 'slam' of drums but that may come with more time. Tbd.

That's it for now. I am enjoying them a lot. The current sub $300 USD price tag makes them a no brainer.

 

[Mani ATH 87]

New owner of the HD650's here, just got a mine "almost new" off of amazon.ca
 
Cost a bit more to purchase in Canada, about 415, so it is what it is! About 100 or so less then to purchase new unless you are getting a sale which is rare. They supposedly have a small "cosmetic imperfection on the front of the item" but I can't see it at all if it's there. They came in the newer style packaging, basically seemingly brand new. I could tell they had been repacked inside the case as they were wrapped in plastic and taped up in a somewhat overdone manner. Everything seemed to be in order though, came with the manual as well as the 3.5mm jack.
 
I'm running off of the original Magni and Modi - I may upgrade at some point down the line, but these phones are at the top of my price range so any further spending will have to wait for a while. Currently I have the original HiFiMAN HE400's to compare with.
 
Just some quick initial impressions of the 650 vs the 400 (everything is stock except the pads on the HE400, I have the newer Focuspads).
 
build: The 650 seems to be built with a lot more plastic and it's significantly lighter, it does feel a bit cheaper in the build to me (not cheap overall, it's a very nice looking headphone). The HE400's are a good bit heavier and have much less padding on the headband. The 650's are more oval vs the 400's being round. Clamp on the 650's a lot tighter then the 400's but loosens up after a short time. The cable on the 650 plugs into both sides of the headphones, HE400's screw in, both obviously detachable. Stock cable on the 650 feels nicer and is a lot more pliable then the much more rigid stock cable on the 400. Overall I think the 650 will be the more comfortable headphone over long periods, but I've never had any issue with the HE400's either.

sound: the HE400 has a great sub bass and very sharp and detailed highs. Most criticism of the HE400's is in the highs, and it's warranted for the most part. They can be ear piercing with certain music if not EQ'd. EQ'ing can take care of most of that piercing, but the highs remain very sharp and can bother some people. The 650's have a much more relaxed sound as has been advertised. The highs are rolled off and much less sharp then the HE400's, they have really nice mids and a bit more mid bass then the HE400s. Sub bass is present and solid but a bit less punchy and quick compared to the HE400's. While the 650 is far from a neutral sounding headphone, it comes across more neutral sounding then the HE400 to me. They HE400 is an amazing headphone for bass heavy genres like EDM/Electronic, and some hip hop, I also enjoy them for some rock music. The HD650 is a nice all around headphone, pretty good for everything I've thrown at it so far. It has a very relaxing, musical and detailed sound.


 
Both really nice headphones depending on your preferred sound signature, look forward to spending some more time with the 650's!

 

[Tuco1965]

Nice cans!

 

[DavidA]

Owning both the HE-400 and HD-650 I think they make great complimentary headphones.