[jazzerdave]

 
A solid-state amp takes approximately 0 seconds to warm up. Do tubes warm themselves up before you need them?
 

 
If you're talking about how long it takes to simply reproduce a signal, then yes, SS "warms up" faster.  However, they can take much longer to warm up to where they're performing at their very best (especially with Class A amps like the Asgard).  Testing the time it takes each amp to reach its peak operating temperature usually mirrors this observation.

 

[dxanex]

Aroldan, the poster who posted right before my last comment, said he has a Crack, and says he has a 650 in his sound signature. 

And somebody else just said he tried the Crack with a 650 at a meet. 

I think he was being sarcastic. That's a very popular match around here. +3, the 650 is awesome with Crack.

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

 
 
If you're talking about how long it takes to simply reproduce a signal, then yes, SS "warms up" faster.  However, they can take much longer to warm up to where they're performing at their very best (especially with Class A amps like the Asgard).  Testing the time it takes each amp to reach its peak operating temperature usually mirrors this observation.

Indeed, +1. Class A takes much longer to settle in, in which, during the time performance
can be affected until warmed.
 
Op amps don't really benefit from warming up, IMO. Take the Dark Star, for example,
that thing is cold to the touch and sounds phenomenal from the first minute to the 8th hour.

 

[HamilcarBarca]

Quote:

 

If you're talking about how long it takes to simply reproduce a signal, then yes, SS "warms up" faster.  However, they can take much longer to warm up to where they're performing at their very best (especially with Class A amps like the Asgard).  Testing the time it takes each amp to reach its peak operating temperature usually mirrors this observation.

 
No, I wasn't. Except for some electrolytic capacitors in some applications, solid-state equipment requires zero warm-up time, even in inefficient class-A designs.

 

[jazzerdave]

Quote:

 
No, I wasn't. Except for some electrolytic capacitors in some applications, solid-state equipment requires zero warm-up time, even in inefficient class-A designs.

 
Well, while I disagree, we've taken up enough of this thread's time on this subject.  Feel free to PM me if you want.

 

[yokken]

My Lyr sounds alright when I first turn it on, but when it's been running for 4+ hours, that's when it starts to get really good. I've had it on since about 11am this morning, so about 10 hours straight. It's hot but not scalding hot. And they say it's not as hot as the Asgard, which makes me wonder how damn hot the Asgard really gets!
 
Either way, I think the Lyr with the stock GE tubes needs to warm up for at least an hour to sound good, with the 3-4 hour mark being really settled in. With my Orange Amperex PQs they sound better right after being turned on, but also sound fantastic after 3-4 hours. Not sure if it's placebo but regardless, I think everyone would agree amps sound better after having time to warm up.

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

 
No, I wasn't. Except for some electrolytic capacitors in some applications, solid-state equipment requires zero warm-up time, even in inefficient class-A designs.

Tube amps need warmup due to the tubes heater in them, heating up the cathode.
Transistors should be instant on, but that doesn't change the fact that people do
experience a change in sound from the moment you flip the switch on to, say, 24 hours later.

 

[uzi]

Quote:

Went to the Bay Area meet yesterday in Redwood City (CHANGfest). Had the opportunity to listen to my HD650's on a Speedball Crack (thanks uzi!), and I think that will eventually be my end game rig

(that, or the Schiit Mjolnir/Gungir with the HD800, that was a STUNNING rig! Perfect match).

 
My pleasure!  Yeah, I'm definitely happy with it and glad I could share the experience with folks.  I kinda took a leap of faith having heard the Schiit Valhalla (which I liked a lot but wasn't tube rollable at the time), read folks saying they liked the Crack+Speedball more than it, and decided to give the DIY thing a shot.  I'm happy I did the Bottlehead thing, but if I was just trying to pair with an HD650, didn't want to break the bank and didn't want to build, I'd definitely do the Valhalla.
 
 

ugh i wish I new how to build that Crack.

 
As was mentioned, you get all the info you need to build it... you just need the tools and the time.  I had no idea what I was doing but still managed to do it.

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

Went to the Bay Area meet yesterday in Redwood City (CHANGfest). Had the opportunity to listen to my HD650's on a Speedball Crack (thanks uzi!), and I think that will eventually be my end game rig

(that, or the Schiit Mjolnir/Gungir with the HD800, that was a STUNNING rig! Perfect match).

 
I had that system for some time and yes it is impressive on initial listen. It took a while, but I ultimately found the Gungnir to be a bottleneck in the chain. Its coarseness and overly aggressive character was just too much when coupled with the Mjolnir's energetic presentation. The NAD M51 that replaced it brought the finesse and refinement the HD800 demanded. The all Schiit stack is really good for the LCD-2, but far from ideal for the HD800.

 

[calipilot227]

Interesting. I didn't enjoy it quite as much with the LCD2.

 

[scolaiw]

Quote:

Yes we all know that this forum censors anything that could hurt its interests with its sponsors - or you should know if you don't. 

 
Actually I don't believe that's the case. Imagine if they had to censor every negative comment or criticism of sponsor products here on head-fi. I think Jude has made it very clear that everybody is entitled to their opinions and you'll find that even he often offers criticisms directed at sponsor products. But anyway, you are right, moot point.... moving on!
 
Quote:

I thought the Asgard had no tubes? Or can you add them on somehow? I think I might want to go with solid state, because I don't think the hassle with replacing tubes and waiting for them to warm up etc is worth it. But, I haven't heard a tube amp yet, so that could change.

 
Oops, my bad! I meant the valhalla. Having said that tube warm up is super short and the sound is worth it! Tubes often last for a couple of thousand hours and replacements can cost a few dollars for a reasonably sounding set of tubes. I feel I am a little biased since I personally favour tubes so I think the best is to have a listen and you be the judge.

 

[fuzzybaffy]

^ That said, how do tubes generally sound? In comparison to solid state amps, that is. 
 
If I could just guess, basing on how they look actually, would it be that tubes are very good with mids, have a bit of an airy sound, with a bit of "velocity" or "movement"? 
 
Also, are they generally more warm? I've heard that's not always the case, but generally is... 
 
And, I might have read that the tubes themselves are slowly going out of production? But given how many modern tube amps there are, I'm a little skeptical. Is this true? Or is it just that all the new tubes aren't as great as the old ones, and the old ones are slowly going out of production? 

 

[MattTCG]

^^ First of all, we hear things differently. My perception of too bright and rolled off treble may not be the same as your, so take it all with a grain of salt. 
 
Tubes will flavor the sound based on their own characteristics. But in general tubes will give a warmer sound. Smooth treble and mids, and add a touch of bass. To my ears, tube and tube amps simply sound more musical and therefore more enjoyable. My experience is with the lyr and LD amps. I love the sound of vocals with tubes which is what I listen to most often. 
 
gL!!

 

[scolaiw]

Quote:

^ That said, how do tubes generally sound? In comparison to solid state amps, that is. 
 
If I could just guess, basing on how they look actually, would it be that tubes are very good with mids, have a bit of an airy sound, with a bit of "velocity" or "movement"? 
 
Also, are they generally more warm? I've heard that's not always the case, but generally is... 
 
And, I might have read that the tubes themselves are slowly going out of production? But given how many modern tube amps there are, I'm a little skeptical. Is this true? Or is it just that all the new tubes aren't as great as the old ones, and the old ones are slowly going out of production? 

 
I mostly agree with what MattTCG said and just want to echo what he said first. You can be as objective as you like comparing amps, but even if something is objectively better, you may find it to be subjectively worse. Hence why even though I have listened to many other headphones (e.g. HD 800, LCD 2/3, PS1000) I still keep coming back to my HD 650s. So basically the best thing to do is to go to a store or a meet or whatever you have access to (compare a tube guitar amp with a ss guitar amp for all I care) but listen and see which one you prefer.

Also tubes will continue to be produced; particularly for the audiophile crowd. But many NOS tubes are disappearing or becoming harder to get. Interestingly, prices with tubes aren't always inversely proportionate to rarity since now many sellers will charge ridiculously inflated prices for tubes waiting for some unlucky guy to buy them. 

 

[jazzerdave]

Quote:

 
I mostly agree with what MattTCG said and just want to echo what he said first. You can be as objective as you like comparing amps, but even if something is objectively better, you may find it to be subjectively worse. Hence why even though I have listened to many other headphones (e.g. HD 800, LCD 2/3, PS1000) I still keep coming back to my HD 650s. So basically the best thing to do is to go to a store or a meet or whatever you have access to (compare a tube guitar amp with a ss guitar amp for all I care) but listen and see which one you prefer.

Also tubes will continue to be produced; particularly for the audiophile crowd. But many NOS tubes are disappearing or becoming harder to get. Interestingly, prices with tubes aren't always inversely proportionate to rarity since now many sellers will charge ridiculously inflated prices for tubes waiting for some unlucky guy to buy them. 

 
Guitar players really saved us when it comes to tube availability.  While they tended to select tubes for different qualities than audiophiles, the purchased in larger quantities and kept at least a few factories open.  Nowadays, I feel like the availability of audiophile quality current production tubes is increasing.  Having said that, the NOS supplies are certainly dwindling.  And even the varieties that are used less frequently that still have large NOS supplies are harder to come by at reasonable prices.  I've got an amp that uses 6U8A's in the driver board; there are plenty of varieties available for $2-3 each, but there are a few sellers asking for $20 or more for common varieties and as much as $60 for Telefunkens.
 
To put it shortly, I agree with scolaiw.