[CanadianMaestro]

This thread is a ......
 

 

[mikoss]

You may also want to try just doing the "coin mod" where you keep most of the foam. Haven't heard it as I enjoy stock 650's too much, but it has been measured and looks to have great results at removing a few dB of the hump in the midrange, without creating any issues. As opposed to completely removing the foam...

I agree they're definitely not veiled, but compared to say the 800's, they have far less treble energy, which IMO can be a very good thing for long listening sessions.

 

[Sal1950]

  This thread is a ......
 

Maybe, but your still riding it.  

 

[cuiter23]

OR is it subjective?

If I compare my portable Denon AH400, HD800 to my HD650 back to back I would honestly say there is "less" clarity in the vocals. This is very apparent when you to a direct back to back test when "memory" is very fresh between swapping headphones. Even my PSB M4u4's have more clarity compared to my HD650. Currently I'm actually enjoying the SQ of my Denon's compared to the HD650. 

At the end of the day it's expected that different "speakers" will sound different using the same exact amplification and source.

When I remove the foam infront of the drivers the "veil" seems to be reduced dramatically enough for my low level listening. The soundstage is not very big with the HD650 this may also be another subjective comment.  

I should bring my copy of HD650 and test it against a fresh set at my local headphone shop. I'm quite curious what I will hear. 

In one post, you effectively dismissed the HD650s biggest strength lol. Not saying you are wrong but the HD650 has one of the most forward mid-vocal sections that I've ever heard.

 

[AlanU]

In one post, you effectively dismissed the HD650s biggest strength lol. Not saying you are wrong but the HD650 has one of the most forward mid-vocal sections that I've ever heard.

Actually the Denon's I own are more "in your face" forward in vocals. Possibly a row closer to the singer.
 
When I remove the foam on my HD650's I'm finding them "perfect" for the nature of these cans

 

[painted klown]

In one post, you effectively dismissed the HD650s biggest strength lol. Not saying you are wrong but the HD650 has one of the most forward mid-vocal sections that I've ever heard.

I don't know enough about exact audiophile definitions to say if I think the vocals are "forward" on the 650, but I will say that the way the 650 delivers vocals is a lot different than my other 'phones.
 
On pretty much everything else I have (generally speaking, of course) I feel the vocals almost "blend in" with the music more. In a way that I don't find unnatural, but in a way that doesn't allow me to follow vocal tracks (as I generally hear them as another instrument), and not as something that stands out. In fact, there are CDs that I have owned for several years and have listened to 100's of times, but can't sing along as I don't really know the words, quite frankly.
 
However, with the 650, I was able to follow the vocal tracks, and understand all of the lyrics (unless intentionally mumbled, obscured, growled, etc). In fact, I find myself following along with the vocals on the 650, and I do it a LOT. That's something I honestly haven't really done in years. I figured it was just the way I listened to music anymore. Yes, I hear the vocals, but I essentially think of them as something to add to the sonic landscape, not a point of focus.
 
The great thing about the 650, is that it rewards me (as a listener) by allowing me to "tune in" to the vocal tracks and glean that much more enjoyment out of my music. Simply put, I LOVE the way these 'phones deliver vocals, and they allow me to change the way I listen, if I so choose.

 

 

[raybone0566]

I don't know enough about exact audiophile definitions to say if I think the vocals are "forward" on the 650, but I will say that the way the 650 delivers vocals is a lot different than my other 'phones.

On pretty much everything else I have (generally speaking, of course) I feel the vocals almost "blend in" with the music more. In a way that I don't find unnatural, but in a way that doesn't allow me to follow vocal tracks (as I generally hear them as another instrument), and not as something that stands out. In fact, there are CDs that I have owned for several years and have listened to 100's of times, but can't sing along as I don't really know the words, quite frankly.

However, with the 650, I was able to follow the vocal tracks, and understand all of the lyrics (unless intentionally mumbled, obscured, growled, etc). In fact, I find myself following along with the vocals on the 650, and I do it a LOT. That's something I honestly haven't really done in years. I figured it was just the way I listened to music anymore. Yes, I hear the vocals, but I essentially think of them as something to add to the sonic landscape, not a point of focus.

The great thing about the 650, is that it rewards me (as a listener) by allowing me to "tune in" to the vocal tracks and glean that much more enjoyment out of my music. Simply put, I LOVE the way these 'phones deliver vocals, and they allow me to change the way I listen, if I so choose.  

You've made quite a jump in phones than what you've been listening to probably. It make take a bit to get used to the 650's sound and the way higher quality phones image and desperate instruments.

 

[mysticstryk]

  Thanks, so basically unnecessary with my Modi which has optical, coax and usb.
 
 
I really need to make a decision now guys.  Project Starlight, Project Sunrise III or Project Solstice?  Want a good tube amp for my 650 and for future headphones.
 
Leaning toward Sunrise III, but would like some input on differences, good or bad. 
 
 
EDIT:  Unrelated to tubes, but how much of an upgrade would this setup be from my current Uber stack? Link 

 
^  Anybody have experience with these to offer me some advice?

 

[Krutsch]

   
Definitely agree with you on how the HD650 sounds like the B&W 68x series. The 650 seems like the B&Ws younger brother haha.

 
You must be kidding.

 

[EinZweiDrei]

which amp is better for the hd650. lyr or vahalla 2.
i like to know the differences between these in sound.

 

[cuiter23]

You must be kidding.

Not at all, I heard the s2 recently and they definitely remind me of the 650s. The b&w's are perhaps a touch darker but they have relatively similar sound profiles with the mid-bass accentuated on both.

 

[Krutsch]

Not at all, I heard the s2 recently and they definitely remind me of the 650s. The b&w's are perhaps a touch darker but they have relatively similar sound profiles with the mid-bass accentuated on both.

 
I wish that were so, but my S2 speakers sound a lot more like my HD-700s and nothing like my 650s.

 

[cuiter23]

I wish that were so, but my S2 speakers sound a lot more like my HD-700s and nothing like my 650s.

I've never heard the 700s but from what I read the 700s are more neutral sounding than the 650s. From my experience with speakers, I would say the 685 s2's are definitely on the warmer and bassier side. Not saying that's bad I did thoroughly enjoy the b&ws quite a bit just like I do my 650s

 

[kman1211]

  650 has no "veil". Our hearing is tuned by everyday real world environmental sounds (e.g. street noises, human speech, etc) to "expect" higher-freq transient sounds. And many HPs (grados, for e.g.) are tuned for supposed clarity in upper mids and treble. So, by comparison, 650 may seem to be more bass-centric and "veiled", when it really isn't, with a good amp driving it.

Hasn't been my experience personally. I personally found most veiled headphones I've heard on the brighter side. I never found brighter headphones to have inherently greater clarity than darker headphones. Veiled and non-veiled to me comes down to how transparent a headphone is to my ears. I found there is a lot of veiled sounding headphones whether bright or dark. I think a veil is more related to transparency for some people and others it seems to be more frequency response dependent. It's really heavily perception based and honestly some people will find the HD 650's veiled and others won't, can't really do anything about it. Honestly I wouldn't consider what they are hearing is wrong, because it is what they are hearing after all. I personally found the HD 600 quite veiled but I didn't really find the HD 650 veiled. 

 

[Liu Junyuan]

which amp is better for the hd650. lyr or vahalla 2.

i like to know the differences between these in sound.

The Lyr is warmer, more dynamic--has more slam. Tubes make a subtle difference, but they are noticeable. V2 is more "neutral", more resolving, and throws a larger stage, but is less dynamic. V2 is also more impervious to tube-rolling, as stock is quite good. I could see people preferring either one. If Senns are only consideration, I'd probably say V2, which won't drive planars.