[Evshrug]

I have an R70x. Is it worth upgrading to the HD700s or should I jump straight to the HD800's or HD660S? Also, why does everyone hate the HD700s (like Z Reviews)?

I would agree that the HD 700 is amp dependent. It’s also not tuned neutral or with the typical “Sennheiser Mids...” The design concept was:
•a more affordable HD 800
•with more bass
•a smaller size
•and easier to drive with 150 Ω at 1kHz
•a more standard cable attachment (2.5mm into the earcups).

So, while it is easier to drive than the 300 Ω HD 800, and actually does fairly well from the balanced port of my Sony ZX300, it’s not quite as easy as a typical portable headphone with 32 Ω resistance and 110 dB sensitivity. Amping quantity and quality is also a factor: people try connecting it straight to a laptop’s built-in headphone jack or something else that is powerful enough to make it loud but not quality enough to show the full resolution and control possible with the headphone.

Lastly, it’s an intentionally colored sounding tuning. For some, that’s a lot of fun and heightens their emotional enjoyment, but for others it sounds “wrong” and not what they were expecting at its price point. Since personal preference plays a stronger part in the perception of this headphone, it ended up being pretty divisive.

I perceive it as a headphone with fairly warm midbass and lower mids, but the main part of the midrange is a little recessed, and the treble was a bit more sparkly than average. Note decay was pretty fast, which gave notes decent “snap” and contrast, though not as well controlled as the HD 800 (and the HD 800’s bigger driver displaces more air). It had a fairly “big” soundstage size as well, no doubt “helped” by the angled drivers. The headphone was lighter than average, the headband was thickly-padded but there was no gap at the apex of the headband like the HD 650 and HD 800S, and the earcups were completely circumarual with above average space to leave ears untouched inside.

The HD 660S has more forward mids and more body to the sound (HD 700 sounded thinner in the mids), while still having strong note separation and fast decay, flat drivers and thicker pads. There is a lot more discussion on the HD 660S sound on that headphone’s discussion thread! https://www.head-fi.org/posts/15717620/

I tried to give a description without injecting my preferences; hopefully this helps you make up your own mind. Cheers!

 

[theaudiologist1]

Hd700 is incredibly source sensitive and can sound very harsh on the wrong setup. If your setup pairs well you won't have any issues.

Comparing against r70x is hard for me since I haven't heard r70x yet, but hd700 would more or less of a less technical headphone than r70x, with impressions from my friends on r70x. But hd700 has a unique coloration that sounds very engaging with the right setup, hear one before you buy.

If you're trying to move up from r70x, hd800 may be a good choice but there is no guarantee you'll like it.

Before jumping up anywhere, I'd recommend to try a good amp on your r70x if you haven't yet. Something like the fiio k5 pro is like only 150$ and should give a big improvement over most cheap setups.

yeah I already have a great DAC/AMP (RHA Dacamp L1) and it drives the R70x really well. I heard the HD800 has the same treble issues as the HD700. If that's the case I'll stick with my R70x'es for now.

BTW sensitive in what way? My DAC has treble and bass controls and in general sounds a bit warm. Is that a good pairing with the HD700?

 

[bob c cue]

I love the HD 700s and they pair very well with the LG V40. I bought the HD 700 used for a little under $300. Now that they're discontinued the price is exorbitant. Glad I got them when I did. They're spectacular for classical music and I have no problem with the piercing highs that some folks reported!

 

[manueljenkin]

yeah I already have a great DAC/AMP (RHA Dacamp L1) and it drives the R70x really well. I heard the HD800 has the same treble issues as the HD700. If that's the case I'll stick with my R70x'es for now.

BTW sensitive in what way? My DAC has treble and bass controls and in general sounds a bit warm. Is that a good pairing with the HD700?

You should be good with hd700 if your source setup is fine, most boxes are ticked. It's in fact far easier as a load from a pure power perspective than your r70x, just that it's sensitive to certain type of issues like compression. Just buy from somewhere with a good return policy just in case you happen to not like it.

It'll instead give you a new window to sound, some compromises, better at some places worse at some other.

I'll also add that you would still see benefits moving to a desktop amp dac for your r70x, but hd700 wouldn't benefit much. You can eventually keep one for on the go use and another for desktop use.

 

[ruinedx]

I love the HD 700s and they pair very well with the LG V40. I bought the HD 700 used for a little under $300. Now that they're discontinued the price is exorbitant. Glad I got them when I did. They're spectacular for classical music and I have no problem with the piercing highs that some folks reported!

Yes I agree, surprisingly the LGv20/LGv30/LGv35/LGv40 with their ESS SABRE DAC all sound astounding with the HD700.

For a desktop DAC match, the best I have found for the HD700 is the PARASOUND ZDAC v2, although this one doesn't have enough power for the HD8xx series. For PC the EVGA NU AUDIO works well with both HD700/HD820 but I liked the ZDAC v2 a little better for HD700.

I just got the HD820 and if you like the HD700 you'll love the HD820. It has a similar feel to the HD700 but a lot better in every way. The HD700 remains my favorite headphone under $1000, though.

 

[ruinedx]

I would agree that the HD 700 is amp dependent. It’s also not tuned neutral or with the typical “Sennheiser Mids...” The design concept was:
•a more affordable HD 800
•with more bass
•a smaller size
•and easier to drive with 150 Ω at 1kHz
•a more standard cable attachment (2.5mm into the earcups).

So, while it is easier to drive than the 300 Ω HD 800, and actually does fairly well from the balanced port of my Sony ZX300, it’s not quite as easy as a typical portable headphone with 32 Ω resistance and 110 dB sensitivity. Amping quantity and quality is also a factor: people try connecting it straight to a laptop’s built-in headphone jack or something else that is powerful enough to make it loud but not quality enough to show the full resolution and control possible with the headphone.

Lastly, it’s an intentionally colored sounding tuning. For some, that’s a lot of fun and heightens their emotional enjoyment, but for others it sounds “wrong” and not what they were expecting at its price point. Since personal preference plays a stronger part in the perception of this headphone, it ended up being pretty divisive.

I perceive it as a headphone with fairly warm midbass and lower mids, but the main part of the midrange is a little recessed, and the treble was a bit more sparkly than average. Note decay was pretty fast, which gave notes decent “snap” and contrast, though not as well controlled as the HD 800 (and the HD 800’s bigger driver displaces more air). It had a fairly “big” soundstage size as well, no doubt “helped” by the angled drivers. The headphone was lighter than average, the headband was thickly-padded but there was no gap at the apex of the headband like the HD 650 and HD 800S, and the earcups were completely circumarual with above average space to leave ears untouched inside.

The HD 660S has more forward mids and more body to the sound (HD 700 sounded thinner in the mids), while still having strong note separation and fast decay, flat drivers and thicker pads. There is a lot more discussion on the HD 660S sound on that headphone’s discussion thread! https://www.head-fi.org/posts/15717620/

I tried to give a description without injecting my preferences; hopefully this helps you make up your own mind. Cheers!

mids are boring

Personally, I think the HD700 can't be beat under $1k, but it does require a good amp match for ideal performance (as mentioned previously Parasound zDAC v2 is best I have heard with HD700 to date, but its too weak for HD820 - EVGA NU AUDIO is a good match for both HD700/HD820, though). The combination of the HD700's soundstage and engaging sound just sounded far better to me than the HD600 (for instance) which sounded boring and lifeless, all mids with dead soundstage.

The pursuit of a "flat" or "neutral" headphone in terms of how it technically measures is a bit of a misconceived effort in my opinion. Most sounds we hear in reality are reflected off surfaces and are not "flat." If you've ever had the opportunity to listen to sound in an anechoic chamber, you'd get to hear true "neutral" & unreflected sound and boy is it horrible sounding!

So really, headphones that are "colored" are actually on the right path IMO for two reasons: 1) Headphones play right into the ear canal, so there needs to be some way to compensate for having a much lower percentage of reflected sound than usual; 2) As we are accustomed to NOT hearing acoustically flat sound again due to room impacting the sound, again without a room to color the sound there must be some effort to compensate for this in order for the sound to sound "natural". 3) Assuming you are not using colored tube amps, most solid state headphone amps (outside of Musical Fidelity) are not significantly colored - so the color will have to be added in the headphone side in this case.

I know there are accepted curves as to what "sounds good" for headphones but I think this is science in its infancy. What Sennheiser has done with the HD7xx and HD8xx lines - especially the HD700 and HD820 in those lines being my favorites depending on price point - shows there is much to be learned in headphone tuning and that the previous status quo can be very much upended. The HD6xx is a more "safe" headphone but also a much more boring and dated sound IMO. For me, its HD700 all the way at this price point!

 

[G0rt]

HD700 takes some taming, in my experience. I like mine with Dekoni Hybrids.

Here, OG Gungnir Multibit to Lyr3 and a 7N7 Frankie makes my millenium.

 

[DavidA]

I have an R70x. Is it worth upgrading to the HD700s or should I jump straight to the HD800's or HD660S? Also, why does everyone hate the HD700s (like Z Reviews)?

A bit late to reply but I've never cared for Z reviews and I think that many that have bad reviews of the HD700 never really listened to them with gear that paired well with them as @manueljenkin noted. While I also own HD800 and have borrowed a friends HD660s a few times these are very different sounding headphones and it really is what your preference is. The one good point of the HD660s is that it sound pretty good on almost any gear while the HD700 and HD800 are a bit picky in what they will sound good with. I haven't heard a r70x in quite a long time(4 years+) so I can't really say how it compares with a HD700.

 

[ruinedx]

A bit late to reply but I've never cared for Z reviews and I think that many that have bad reviews of the HD700 never really listened to them with gear that paired well with them as @manueljenkin noted. While I also own HD800 and have borrowed a friends HD660s a few times these are very different sounding headphones and it really is what your preference is. The one good point of the HD660s is that it sound pretty good on almost any gear while the HD700 and HD800 are a bit picky in what they will sound good with. I haven't heard a r70x in quite a long time(4 years+) so I can't really say how it compares with a HD700.

The HD6xx are less picky to sound decent on good gear, but the HD700/HD800S/HD820 sound so much better than HD6xx when you have a remotely good equipment match. The original HD800 on the other hand I found just too gear-picky with the treble to be usable stock.

Ironically after spending thousands of dollars on standalone amp/dacs, the best match I've found for the HD820 (which is similar to the HD800S in many ways) is the $249 EVGA NU AUDIO hpa/dac PC soundcard (original, not the pro version which sounds different)

 

[Horsey]

anyone know if the headband on the hd600 can fir on the hd700? i remember last year i saw someone on reddit saying it actually fit and made his HD700 more comfortable

 

[jaredn13]

I've got this setup and it sounds great to me. My HD650's have been sitting in their box ever since. I used HD580s for a good 10+ years, then HD650s for another 8+ with various dac/amps. This is the best sounding for me yet.

I don't know the correct way to describe how it sounds compared to the 580/650, it's more open, clearer, tighter, but also the bass is more impactful as well.

I have an SMSL SP200 + M200 stack on the way right now, curious to see if it sounds any better/different.

Teac UD-503 -> active ground balanced out -> custom dual 1/4" to dual 2.5mm -> HD700
Equalizer APO tweaks-

 

[ruinedx]

I don't know the correct way to describe how it sounds compared to the 580/650, it's more open, clearer, tighter, but also the bass is more impactful as well.

Sounds more like real world natural music reproduction instead of headphones IMO is the best way to describe

 

[manueljenkin]

I can do a write up of hd700 on different sources of mine if anyone is interested. I have about 3 different dedicated DAC+amp combo, some integrated outputs of phones, and one dedicated amp with two choices of opamps. And hd700 shows fairly noticeable behavior variations.

On any decent chain that doesn't get hd700 to murder mode, it sounds a lot cleaner, detailed and quicker than hd600/650 on ANY amp, and I have tried the hd600 even out of speaker amps.

Regarding hd800 vs hd700, I can sum up shortly this way. Hd700 does voices way better than hd800, but sorely lacks bass depth, extension or detail (about only as good as hd600 on that side, but no more muddiness or woom woom in the bass). Hd800 has incredible bass impact and has faster transients and sounds sharper. Hd800 wins over hd700 by a mile if you want to listen to binaural, live, etc the ones where there is a lot of spatial cues and ambeance. The moment you turn to high pitched female voices hd800 loses texture, sounds muted and falsettos just don't have that zing. 6k sibilance is a separate issue, it comes with words pronouncing s/t, nothing to do with falsettos.

 

[ruinedx]

I wonder if they will ever come out with an HD700S? Funny cause even owning/selling the HD800 and currently owning the HD820 I still really enjoy the HD700 for what it is - sound is amazing for its compact size and lower power requirements compared to HD8xx. Really a shame it's out of production, IMO the most comfortable headphone fit out there

 

[jenkinsontherun]

TL; DR at bottom
For those interested in a very nice HD700 setup consisting of new pads + EQ, here is what I am using:

EQ:
As you may know there is a thread on eq'ing the HD700 already. While I feel that it is heading in the right direction, many of the settings are not exactly to taste quite yet. My culmination of the eq settings and that which I find produces the most organic and non-sibilant sound, are these settings:

Preamp: -6.8 dB

Filter: ON PK Fc 17 Hz Gain 6.5 dB Q 0.52
Filter: ON PK Fc 207 Hz Gain -3.1 dB Q 0.52
Filter: ON PK Fc 2006 Hz Gain 5.8 dB Q 0.97
Filter: ON PK Fc 3609 Hz Gain 3.1 dB Q 3.52
Filter: ON PK Fc 4869 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 4.03
Filter: ON PK Fc 5022 Hz Gain 0.7 dB Q 2.04
Filter: ON PK Fc 5750 Hz Gain -4.3 dB Q 1.6
Filter: ON PK Fc 14371 Hz Gain 0.9 dB Q 0.97
Filter: ON PK Fc 17046 Hz Gain 2.2 dB Q 2.10
Filter: ON PK Fc 19784 Hz Gain -8.4 dB Q 0.76
Filter: ON PK Fc 13000 Hz Gain 5 dB Q 2.7

Long story short, those settings combine many features of eq settings on the eq'ing thread.
Focal points are the 5750 hz band and the 13000 hz band, since those are supposed to tackle the highest peaks on the frequency response.

HOWEVER, that is not 100% enough for the headphones to sound good. There is something physical that you can do as well. To summarize, it is based on the fact that the tinny sound is akin to that which arises when the drivers are too far from the head. The same sort of tinny, ringing sound arises when I put thick pads on my kph30i's.

The solution? Use thinner pads https://www.amazon.ca/kwmobile-earp...8&sr=1-1-791c2399-d602-4248-afbb-8a79de2d236f

Not only is the sibilance reduced, but I get more of an organic feel with the upper frequencies overall. Perhaps Sennheiser made the stock pads too thick, causing sibilance? Who knows. But, I am certain that any thicker third party pads (Dekoni?) will NOT solve the sibilance problems.

TL; DR

Filter: ON PK Fc 17 Hz Gain 6.5 dB Q 0.52
Filter: ON PK Fc 207 Hz Gain -3.1 dB Q 0.52
Filter: ON PK Fc 2006 Hz Gain 5.8 dB Q 0.97
Filter: ON PK Fc 3609 Hz Gain 3.1 dB Q 3.52
Filter: ON PK Fc 4869 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 4.03
Filter: ON PK Fc 5022 Hz Gain 0.7 dB Q 2.04
Filter: ON PK Fc 5750 Hz Gain -4.3 dB Q 1.6
Filter: ON PK Fc 14371 Hz Gain 0.9 dB Q 0.97
Filter: ON PK Fc 17046 Hz Gain 2.2 dB Q 2.10
Filter: ON PK Fc 19784 Hz Gain -8.4 dB Q 0.76
Filter: ON PK Fc 13000 Hz Gain 5 dB Q 2.7

use those eq settings and thinner pads, such as these ones:
https://www.amazon.ca/kwmobile-earp...8&sr=1-1-791c2399-d602-4248-afbb-8a79de2d236f

The result is a warm headphone with a lot of bite, but no sibilance. The HD700, believe it or not, is warm by nature, but with the exception of the treble spike that is so severe, makes it sound bright. It's like finally being able to pet a porcupine when it lies on its back.

Enjoy.