[kman1211]

Would you buy a 6-series headphone that had this done to it as a new headphone? (if somehow you knew this was done, but not by whom or anything else)

If a headphone is returned after being opened/used and sold again it’s considered renewed/B-stock. This wouldn’t really happen unless the seller is being unethical and selling a renewed product as new.

 

[457139]

I think if I actually did leave the 650 driver in the 660S2 as Captain Fantastic suggested like a worried Karen, that would def be unethical

 

[CaptainFantastic]

If a headphone is returned after being opened/used and sold again it’s considered renewed. This wouldn’t really happen unless the seller is being unethical selling a renewed product as new.

OK, so putting Amazon aside, would you buy a "renewed" 6-series headphone knowing its drivers were swapped to another unit and back?

Since we are now employing a high degree of realism, let's agree that no seller would actually fully check the full integrity of the drivers before reselling it as "renewed" unless perhaps it were Sennheiser itself.

 

[457139]

If a headphone is returned after being opened/used and sold again it’s considered renewed/B-stock. This wouldn’t really happen unless the seller is being unethical and selling a renewed product as new.

So the burden is on these sellers and not me actually. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[kman1211]

OK, so putting Amazon aside, would you buy a "renewed" 6-series headphone knowing its drivers were swapped to another unit and back?

Since we are now employing a high degree of realism, let's agree that no seller would actually fully check the full integrity of the drivers before reselling it as "renewed" unless perhaps it were Sennheiser itself.

Due to the risk of potential damage of the driver, likely not unless it’s guaranteed/documented no driver denting/damage occurred.

But I’m hesitant about b-stock headphones in general unless it’s directly from the manufacturer (in which you also get a warranty on the headphone). This is also why it’s important to buy from a seller with a return policy even on b-stock. You can’t always account for what previous owners did to a headphone (or any device) sadly and buying used does come with risks and comes down to trust.

 

[erics75]

If a headphone is returned after being opened/used and sold again it’s considered renewed. This wouldn’t really happen unless the seller is being unethical selling a renewed product as new.

Unfortunately Amazon is notorious for taking back returns and adding them back to new stock without inspection. And the OP did not return them as defective, so someone else will be getting a "new" unit that has been disassembled/reassembled by a previous owner.

As for ethics, it's so subjective there will be no consensus. In the end unless a law was broken there isn't much to be done other than talk about it to no avail. I personally think it's completely inappropriate to do this. I've been on the receiving end of Amazon units that I bought as new but clearly received a return. It happened to me twice in a row with the NDH 30, so i'm very irritated by this behavior. And IMO there is zero justification for it. If you want to experiment with something buy it and keep it, then do what you want. But passing your experiment off to me as a return? Not OK! Obviously the OP doesn't agree or care. So all we can do is further derail the thread with this crap. I know there's no way I'd transact with him in the classifieds, his attitude is alarming to me. But who am I, another talking head on the internet.

 

[SHAMuuu]

The 580/600/650 drivers come off quite easily and the risk of damage is minimal if you watch a video on them before attempting.

However, the 660s/2 is two piece driver and more difficult to remove and IME they required the springs to be put back in

Although the risk of damage is minimal, there is slightly more risk with the s1/s2 and I wouldn't recommend removing the driver

The 660s1 used at $200 ish is not too bad if you want to slap in another driver to the chassis

But 660s2 I would be much more hesitant especially near MSRP

 

[457139]

Unfortunately Amazon is notorious for taking back returns and adding them back to new stock without inspection. And the OP did not return them as defective, so someone else will be getting a "new" unit that has been disassembled/reassembled by a previous owner.

As for ethics, it's so subjective there will be no consensus. In the end unless a law was broken there isn't much to be done other than talk about it to no avail. I personally think it's completely inappropriate to do this. I've been on the receiving end of Amazon units that I bought as new but clearly received a return. It happened to me twice in a row with the NDH 30, so i'm very irritated by this behavior. And IMO there is zero justification for it. If you want to experiment with something buy it and keep it, then do what you want. But passing your experiment off to me as a return? Not OK! Obviously the OP doesn't agree or care. So all we can do is further derail the thread with this crap. I know there's no way I'd transact with him in the classifieds, his attitude is alarming to me. But who am I, another talking head on the internet.

The headphones I returned were not defective in anyway shape or form lol. Jesus Christ

And this is clearly a seller issue you described.

 

[AxelCloris]

Mod comment: The conversation has shifted into more of an ethical debate rather than the HD 660S2 headphones - and we can understand what lead to the shift given the information shared - but since this thread is dedicated to the HD 660S2, we ask that everyone please keep the discussion focused on the headphones, sonic impressions, and our favorite pairings and tracks for the HD 660S2 going forward.

The Members' Lounge is an excellent place for a discussion about returning modified headphones, and we invite anyone who would like to continue that conversation to start a thread in that sub-forum.

Thanks everyone. Now, back to the HD 660S2. Happy listening!

 

[SennheiserTech]

Lemme see if I can help people having a hard time understand..

If the cable is removed from the headphone, is the headphone in the same condition? What about the earpads? Is the headphone any different if either are removed and put back? Lol the answer is no.

The drivers are designed to be removed just like the earpads, the grills, or the headband padding or the cable, and doing so carefully does not add any wear/tear to the headphone. I'm sorry to inform people of this. It's just reality lol



I guess this is a reasonable point. Although I'm not completely sure removing a driver and snapping it back in could be described as internal modding.

I don't really see the point to any of this. As a Sennheiser tech, I can certainly say that no repair on an HD600 series headphone involves soldering. They are very simple to disassemble and if done properly, no wear or tear is incurred. I really would not be able to tell if a set of phones have been opened and drivers swapped and put back again.

BUT, my question is why? If you like certain selections better on your HD600's then listen to them. If you like certain selections better on the HD660S2's then listen to them for those selection instead. The fact that you have "modular" drivers on hand would indicate that at one time you had complete headsets and for some reason decided to part them out so you can "Frankenstein" your 600's into 660S2's or vice versa on demand. Why not just own both sets, it's not like they're big like speakers. Am I missing something?

@Jermo K
@ericpalonen

Sennheiser guys, does this sound reasonable to you? He bought a 660S2, swapped the drivers to 650 housing, swapped them back, then returned the 660S2 for a full refund as new. He is arguing that, like Lego, this is perfectly fine to do.

Again, the point of the exercise is? Buy the HD660S2 and listen to them and then return them if it's not your cup of tea. Why swap drivers around to listen? Do you think an HD650 headband will change the sonic character. It's not about ethics or the consumer getting hurt really as your returned headphones were sent back to Sennheiser where they received a full inspection and testing before entering B stock. It just strikes me as absolutely pointless unless you just like to fiddle with things.

 

[SHAMuuu]

I don't really see the point to any of this. As a Sennheiser tech, I can certainly say that no repair on an HD600 series headphone involves soldering. They are very simple to disassemble and if done properly, no wear or tear is incurred. I really would not be able to tell if a set of phones have been opened and drivers swapped and put back again.

BUT, my question is why? If you like certain selections better on your HD600's then listen to them. If you like certain selections better on the HD660S2's then listen to them for those selection instead. The fact that you have "modular" drivers on hand would indicate that at one time you had complete headsets and for some reason decided to part them out so you can "Frankenstein" your 600's into 660S2's or vice versa on demand. Why not just own both sets, it's not like they're big like speakers. Am I missing something?

Not sure about the other fella, but I took a driver from 580 and transplanted into new shell so I can have

I) increased clamp
Ii) new cable


As much as I love 580 it was too loose and the sound was better with tighter clamp. And the old cable is not that good.

I've heard 660s2 and there is no need at all to touch it.

660s is different story

It's somewhat pointless. Yet there are one or two cases where it might make sense for someone who has multiple sets

 

[Jermo K]

Just to add some background: An HD 660S2 with the HD 650 capsules will sound exactly like an HD 650, since the earpads and the baffle (metal mesh part around the driver) is exactly the same. The same applies vice versa.
You can get a different result by implanting HD 660S2 drivers into the HD 600, since the baffle has less acoustic impedance and you lose some amplitude below 1kHz, which makes the upper mids more forward and less "mellow".
That being said, I don't endorse taking your headphones apart ;^)

 

[457139]

I don't really see the point to any of this. As a Sennheiser tech, I can certainly say that no repair on an HD600 series headphone involves soldering. They are very simple to disassemble and if done properly, no wear or tear is incurred. I really would not be able to tell if a set of phones have been opened and drivers swapped and put back again.

BUT, my question is why? If you like certain selections better on your HD600's then listen to them. If you like certain selections better on the HD660S2's then listen to them for those selection instead. The fact that you have "modular" drivers on hand would indicate that at one time you had complete headsets and for some reason decided to part them out so you can "Frankenstein" your 600's into 660S2's or vice versa on demand. Why not just own both sets, it's not like they're big like speakers. Am I missing something?


Again, the point of the exercise is? Buy the HD660S2 and listen to them and then return them if it's not your cup of tea. Why swap drivers around to listen? Do you think an HD650 headband will change the sonic character. It's not about ethics or the consumer getting hurt really as your returned headphones were sent back to Sennheiser where they received a full inspection and testing before entering B stock. It just strikes me as absolutely pointless unless you just like to fiddle with things.

Thank you for clearing this up. I was going to say the bit yesterday about you all not being able to tell difference between a headphone that was disassembled properly and one that wasn't (which is the whole point of a modular headphone lol), but people were so far off the mark in here in terms of their understanding of this, and because of same, intent on flaming me as if I was doing something terrible, that I didn't want to make the convo even more intense. I think I made the right decision

To answer your question I have all three HPs and numerous parts around. I like mix/matching parts. According to Jermo's post the 650 capsule has no impact on the sound with the 660s2 driver, although it did sound different to my ears, whether imagined or real lol, once I swapped them. I may try the 600 capsule.

*One more point on the question of changing things: the bass on the 660S2 is a strong point in terms of it's ability to render details/texture. That's an improvement over the 600/650 in my books. The reason I have taken to mixing and matching more with 660S2 is because it's a little too tame in the upper mids/ lower treble region for my tastes. I like a bit more bite in that region, but not too much. I understand some wanted this as there are complaints about it re the 600/650 going back years, but I think you went a little to far in lowering that area of the frequency response. So that's what I've been after re the 660S2. I think that answers your question fully. Thanks again

 

[mdotdub]

In the spirit of @AxelCloris suggestion to continue sharing favorite pairings and tracks that we enjoy on the HD 660S2, the 660S2 is my first serious headphone purchase that I've kept and I'm thoroughly enjoying them. I'm new to the hobby and have a modest budget at the moment, so I'm driving them with a humble FiiO K11 using the 4.4mm balanced output. Here are some of the tracks that I'm really enjoying and are in heavy rotation for me right now. The list below is an ordered list for reference, but is not a ranking.

1. Something by Julien Baker - This is a beautiful, yet haunting track that shows off her voice and the airiness of her guitar work. The arrangement is fairly simple yet spacious. I can't listen to this song on anything else now.
2. Poison Arrow (Steven Wilson Stereo Mix / 2020) by ABC - I'm a child of the 80's and this song brings back so many memories. When the bass comes in at that 00:17 mark, it really hits and I think it's a great example of how well the HD 660S2 handles the low end. The production of this remix is next level — every element & instrument stands out and with the 660S2's, I feel like I can place each of them exactly where their supposed to be.
3. Dog Days Are Over by Florence + the Machine - The HD 660S2 handles everything on this song so well. From the opening harp notes to the driving percussion to Florence Welch's vocals. I feel like I'm getting every nuance that was intended that I haven't heard on other headphones.
4. Secrets from a Girl (Who's Seen it All) by Lorde - Maybe there's an emotional aspect of this song where it seems like Lorde could be singing this song to my daughter (more on her in a bit), but the production and performance of this song is amazing. Everything complement's Lorde's voice.
5. Ya'aburnee by Halsey - The production by Atticus Ross and Trent Reznor is minimalist, but powerful. The HD 660S2 handles the bass and Halsey's vocals beautifully.
6. L'AMOUR DE MA VIE by Billie Eilish - This is another song that I think really shows off the range of the HD 660S2. The gentle guitar and synths playing just underneath Billie's vocals in the first half of the song are handled perfectly. As the song transitions from acoustic to electronic midway through, the 660S2's step up and keep the vocals separated from the thumping and driving bass that so many of Billie and FINNEAS' songs are known for.

As for my daughter...I had her listen to some of her favorite songs using the HD 660S2's. She immediately heard a difference compared to her daily drivers, the Sony MX1000 m4, and is scheming for how she can get the Sennheiser's away from me so she can take them to school in the Fall. I fear that I've set my daughter on a path to spend all the money she makes this summer on headphones lol.

I'd love to hear what others here love listening to that show off what the HD 660S2's can do.

 

[Shane D]

In the spirit of @AxelCloris suggestion to continue sharing favorite pairings and tracks that we enjoy on the HD 660S2, the 660S2 is my first serious headphone purchase that I've kept and I'm thoroughly enjoying them. I'm new to the hobby and have a modest budget at the moment, so I'm driving them with a humble FiiO K11 using the 4.4mm balanced output. Here are some of the tracks that I'm really enjoying and are in heavy rotation for me right now. The list below is an ordered list for reference, but is not a ranking.

1. Something by Julien Baker - This is a beautiful, yet haunting track that shows off her voice and the airiness of her guitar work. The arrangement is fairly simple yet spacious. I can't listen to this song on anything else now.
2. Poison Arrow (Steven Wilson Stereo Mix / 2020) by ABC - I'm a child of the 80's and this song brings back so many memories. When the bass comes in at that 00:17 mark, it really hits and I think it's a great example of how well the HD 660S2 handles the low end. The production of this remix is next level — every element & instrument stands out and with the 660S2's, I feel like I can place each of them exactly where their supposed to be.
3. Dog Days Are Over by Florence + the Machine - The HD 660S2 handles everything on this song so well. From the opening harp notes to the driving percussion to Florence Welch's vocals. I feel like I'm getting every nuance that was intended that I haven't heard on other headphones.
4. Secrets from a Girl (Who's Seen it All) by Lorde - Maybe there's an emotional aspect of this song where it seems like Lorde could be singing this song to my daughter (more on her in a bit), but the production and performance of this song is amazing. Everything complement's Lorde's voice.
5. Ya'aburnee by Halsey - The production by Atticus Ross and Trent Reznor is minimalist, but powerful. The HD 660S2 handles the bass and Halsey's vocals beautifully.
6. L'AMOUR DE MA VIE by Billie Eilish - This is another song that I think really shows off the range of the HD 660S2. The gentle guitar and synths playing just underneath Billie's vocals in the first half of the song are handled perfectly. As the song transitions from acoustic to electronic midway through, the 660S2's step up and keep the vocals separated from the thumping and driving bass that so many of Billie and FINNEAS' songs are known for.

As for my daughter...I had her listen to some of her favorite songs using the HD 660S2's. She immediately heard a difference compared to her daily drivers, the Sony MX1000 m4, and is scheming for how she can get the Sennheiser's away from me so she can take them to school in the Fall. I fear that I've set my daughter on a path to spend all the money she makes this summer on headphones lol.

I'd love to hear what others here love listening to that show off what the HD 660S2's can do.

Yesterday, I finished with jazz and today is all jazz.
Starting off with Freddie Hubbard and friends on Red Clay (CTI Records 40th Anniversary Edition). It is amazing with my iFi amp.

Also, I never go more than a week or two without playing some Florence + The Machine. I have all of her stuff.