[jonathan c]

Got it. With 3 available at the same price, it would be nice to get a taste of each before deciding which to commit to. The Plinius build quality is indeed impeccable, as is the sound quality, IMHO. Give it a listen if you get a chance. Unapologetically SS, but the good, clean, liquid, iron-fist-in-a-velvet-glove kind of solid state. Not precisely the same as Pass Labs, but that part of the galaxy. The Burson stuff is also built like a brick and sonically similar, especially the two SL models. The Soloist is a little drier and more extended in the very high end - I’m told because of the stepped attenuator that replaces the alps pot - but that just makes it a perfect match for my HD650s, which need the help up there. Bye-bye ‘Sennheiser veil’.

Enjoy!

Do you have the Custom Cans (UK) cnc backweight modification on your h/p? I have thought that you did. An additional way to remove the veil is to replace the ear-side foam coverings.

 

[Dawgfish]

~ To @Lalapuni (and others): the Sennheiser HD-600 definitely ‘flexes its muscles’ and ‘struts its stuff’ with OTL tube headphone amps. Just for starters, frequency range delivered and ‘force’ of delivery are greater than if powered by solid-state h/p/a. [This point is well addressed by @bagwell359.]
~ In my experience, the OTLs that really suit the HD-600 are: Schiit Audio Valhalla II ($349), Bottlehead Crack (w/Speedball: built by James C at HeadAmp Builder [on Etsy.com], $1100), Woo Audio WA2 ($1299), Linear Tube Audio MZ3 ($3700).
~ Other OTLs would include those from
Eufonika, Feliks Audio, and White Bird Amplification, all from Poland. In my h/p/a stable one day?….
~ The Valhalla II is a great way to start ‘OTLing’. The stock tubes are OK. Later, one can upgrade the tubes. A nice Valhalla point is that the 6N6P power tubes, even the Fotons as upgrades, are not wildly expensive.

Agreed. A relatively inexpensive and painless entry into the otl tube world is the Schiit Valhalla II. It pairs well with the 600 (and all the other phones in the 600 family). You can roll some of the cheaper Soviet tubes in it for relatively low coin also.

I have the first version of the Valhalla so I was more limited in choices of tubes to roll in it. I ended up with some 75' Voskhod 6N1 input tubes and early 60s Foton 6N6Ps and the improvement in sound was impressive. I think I paid around $50-60 total for both pairs of tubes.

 

[bagwell359]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but one of the things most tube guys like about tubes is the ability to tailor the sound to taste via tube rolling. People especially seem to like NOS Western European or USA tubes from the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s, and the more popular varieties can get pretty pricey. Most new production (oem) tubes are Chinese or Russian, many of which sound very good, but they are generally not the same as the old European or USA made tubes. So, if you’re planning to go tube, be prepared to start playing with the tubes themselves at some point or another (and get to know a reputable tube dealer - there’s a lot of ‘questionable’ stuff for sale on flea bay). Personally, after playing the tube game for 40 years (and admittedly having a lot of fun with it), I’ve ‘retired’ and gone Class A solid state.

Enjoy!

Excellent advice. Avoid the folks that have just one or two tubes for sale, they lack testing equipment and knowledge to answer a wide range of questions. The actual sites that have hundreds of tubes will get full price for them, but you are getting what they promise. I have tubes for my BH that test so well they are simply going to outlive me.

I notice Schiit picks tubes that are pretty easy to aquire, Try getting a set of true NOS tubes for some of driver size/premium types. I.E. 300B, KT88, etc.

 

[Strat1117]

Do you have the Custom Cans (UK) cnc backweight modification on your h/p? I have thought that you did. An additional way to remove the veil is to replace the ear-side foam coverings.

I do, on my HD600s. The 650s are pretty stock except for Dekoni hybrid pads. I’ve been thinking about adding it to the 650s and the 580s, but haven’t pulled the trigger yet.


Those leather earpads, btw, have built in cloth covers which eliminate the foam covers. Nicely made and relatively cheap too.

NewFantasia Replacement Earpads... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B9M6GVV?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

[Lalapuni]

what do you guys think is the true technical upgrade that carries over HD600 strengths? I thought 800S would be one but apparently it’s not as neutral and leans more to the “bright neutral” side. I’m also bothered by some reviewers claiming 800S is fantastic for classical but not so much electronical, synth etc.


I’ve tried a lot of headphones and HD600 and 560s so far are my two favorites. I wonder how much improvement will I hear when I’ll upgrade an amp… I’d have done it already if not for the need to also change the DAC, apparently all better amps than my current (Fiiio K5 Pro) aren’t combo units.



And I did read the comments about tubes, thanks for the responses. That is definitely too much for me

 

[Deceneu808]

what do you guys think is the true technical upgrade that carries over HD600 strengths? I thought 800S would be one but apparently it’s not as neutral and leans more to the “bright neutral” side. I’m also bothered by some reviewers claiming 800S is fantastic for classical but not so much electronical, synth etc.


I’ve tried a lot of headphones and HD600 and 560s so far are my two favorites. I wonder how much improvement will I hear when I’ll upgrade an amp… I’d have done it already if not for the need to also change the DAC, apparently all better amps than my current (Fiiio K5 Pro) aren’t combo units.



And I did read the comments about tubes, thanks for the responses. That is definitely too much for me

Well it's simple. Tube or step up to a zmf if you are looking for similar tuning and some better technicalities

 

[jonathan c]

Well it's simple. Tube or step up to a zmf if you are looking for similar tuning and some better technicalities

And if you step up to ZMF, a good tube OTL (output transformer less) headphone amplifier will bring out the best from the ZMF.

 

[Lalapuni]

Well it's simple. Tube or step up to a zmf if you are looking for similar tuning and some better technicalities

they look a bit oof, though <___>

i think i'm good, thanks. Maybe I'll do tubes in the future. And I'm still interested in trying 800s.

 

[David222]

Well it's simple. Tube or step up to a zmf if you are looking for similar tuning and some better technicalities

...or both Tube + ZMF! Why limit oneself

@Lalapuni might want to consider a Hagerman Tuba. Phenomenal price to performance. Great way to begin one's tubeventures...

 

[CaptainFantastic]

they look a bit oof, though <___>

i think i'm good, thanks. Maybe I'll do tubes in the future. And I'm still interested in trying 800s.

I just tried the 800s (again) on Friday. It has nothing to do with the 600. The vocals sound distant, lifeless when comparing. I am sure if one listens just to the 800s it starts to sound more normal.

I echo what was said above about ZMFs, tubes, and will add that the HE-60 seems IMHO to be the only true 600 upgrade - meaning retaining the 600 sound as much as possible. I don't agree with the more recent review of it that is out there on Youtube. I think that unit was broken.

It retains the 600 sound but somehow (even though vocals remain as good) adds more space, a truly open feel, more detail, and an incredible speed to the sound. Two caveats however: 1) some slight EQ (2dB bass, 2dB treble) is needed, I use my RME and this is the only headphone I currently EQ 2) my impressions of it might be influenced by what I was told is one of its best pairings for a reasonable budget - the SRM 717. It might sound worse with a different amp, cheaper or more expensive.

 

[Strat1117]

what do you guys think is the true technical upgrade that carries over HD600 strengths? I thought 800S would be one but apparently it’s not as neutral and leans more to the “bright neutral” side. I’m also bothered by some reviewers claiming 800S is fantastic for classical but not so much electronical, synth etc.


I’ve tried a lot of headphones and HD600 and 560s so far are my two favorites. I wonder how much improvement will I hear when I’ll upgrade an amp… I’d have done it already if not for the need to also change the DAC, apparently all better amps than my current (Fiiio K5 Pro) aren’t combo units.



And I did read the comments about tubes, thanks for the responses. That is definitely too much for me

Maybe what you need is the Custom Cans UK copper weight upgrade? Easy to do, not tremendously expensive and (mostly) reversible. Might be just what you’re looking for - makes the 600 sound like a more expensive version of itself.

https://customcans.co.uk/s/s/index.php/acessories/hd600-mass-loading-mod.html

I recommend it in conjunction with these pads, which are solid real leather, and which replace the foam ear cushions with a built in nylon mesh. Very satisfying and cost effective combo.

NewFantasia Replacement Earpads... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B9M6GVV?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

what do you guys think is the true technical upgrade that carries over HD600 strengths? I thought 800S would be one but apparently it’s not as neutral and leans more to the “bright neutral” side. I’m also bothered by some reviewers claiming 800S is fantastic for classical but not so much electronical, synth etc.


I’ve tried a lot of headphones and HD600 and 560s so far are my two favorites. I wonder how much improvement will I hear when I’ll upgrade an amp… I’d have done it already if not for the need to also change the DAC, apparently all better amps than my current (Fiiio K5 Pro) aren’t combo units.



And I did read the comments about tubes, thanks for the responses. That is definitely too much for me

The original Orpheus
..and I’m not even kidding.
Personally I don’t feel that any ZMF option offers an upgrade - quite the opposite. What you gain with the better bass over ZMFs you lose tenfold in the mids and treble. Add to that there are no openback ZMFs on the market. They all sound about as open as Denon’s old D2000/D5000/D7000…and to me that is a distinct step down from any Sennheiser that I own.
Admittedly, I find these wooden headphones to be among the most beautiful on the market, and there is something very heartwarming about a handmade headphone…but I am not buying a set to look at.
If you want something that could be considered an upgrade that retains the openness and tuning, then spring for a Sundara, Elex/Clear or an R70x. The original Orpheus is next to impossible to find anywhere..and people are wise enough never to let it go.

 

[mvule]

I'm also bothered by some reviewers that say the 800S is fantastic for classical...it simply doesn't have enough bass!!! (in my opinion)

 

[mobbaddict]

I feel like some of the possible upgrades will be more of a sidegrade for certain people anyway, especially if these upgrades use a different technology. The HE60 is indeed great but I remember it had the usual ethereal quality that made me give up on electrostats (maybe dependant on the amp?). The recent LCD-5 could be a nice candidate too but the timbre is a bit different on planars, it took me some time to realize it but it's true. At this point I'm keeping the HD600 and investigating possible planar alternatives.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

^If you dig the 600 I’m almost positive you’ll like the Sundara. It is the planar that comes the closest to sounding like a planar take on the 600. The new LCD-5 is a slightly different experience as the low treble is lowered somewhat. Still sounds very nice.
Put another way: 4 of my longtime friends all count the 600 among their favourite headphones. They’ve never heard a planar magnetic they wanted to keep…until the new Sundara…and well now they all own a pair.