[ToTo Man]

You might just have got a bad pair.  If it were me I'd try another brand new pair of HD600 just to be sure.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Why do you say that there isn't anything that is uncolored?

 

Because no current technology transducer, headphone or speaker, has a totally flat response. At best, you can EQ some problematic points, but that can't exactly trim the exact same shape as the peak. Any deviation from a totally flat response alters, ie colors, the sound in some way or another.

 

These are among the smoothest response curves out there.

 
 

  Might it be possible that Sennheiser has recently adjusted the tonal characteristics of the headphones...

 

If they were used they could have been recipients of the HD650 drivers at some point, but since you got them new, I don't think this kind of mix up would have happened at the factory.

 

That said there are people who keep insisting that midway through the HD600 and HD650 production the sound changes, mainly attributed to the driver color (it's not the driver itself but some kind of screen), but according to Sennheiser the density of the material to be identical. Note that I swapped my new pads between those two and can't easily hear any difference, basically if there were any it has more to do with acceptable manufacturing variances, not have the HD600 and you hear basically what sounds like the HD650.
 

 
...or this was simply due to the way I was driving them? 

 

This is also possible. Given low voltage or distortion already set in at that level of voltage output it can sound that way, like when the power was out and I used my HD600 with my iPod. That said, even my Note3 sounds a heck of a lot better than the 5g iPod, although I'd still have to be desperate to use that directly with my HD600.

 

One problem with looking at this angle though is that the K702 works fine with the same upstream component, when even if it's a current drive amp that makes a lot more power at 32ohms vs 300ohms, the higher sensitivity of the HD600 means that practically anything that works great with the AKG counterparts will work great on the Sennheisers. Otherwise, if the Apogee was really short on power, the K702 would totally sound like a tin can, kind of like what the K701 was like on the same iPod that made the HD600 sound dark and lazy.

 

[geoffroyi]

I suppose it had a happy ending in that I couldn't be more satisfied with the combination of Apogee One (which I've owned for a long time) + AKG K702s in every regard so far and ended up having to invest much less than originally planned (I even considered spending quite a bit more for a "proper" headphone amp to maybe get the 600s to sound different). If I had known about the sound signature of the 702s I would have gotten those in the first place, but I was sort of predisposed to consider the Sennheiser as I still have fond memories of the 555 that I had been using 10 years ago or so, and was expecting the 600 to simply be a big step up from that. I don't think the 555 sounded quite this warm or maybe in the meantime my taste has changed. 

 

[minekomi]

Hey guys,
 
I'm seeking some advice for the HD600/Bottlehead Crack combo. I currently have the 600 + O2, but may soon be looking for an amplifier upgrade.
 
I picked the 600 over the 650 because I've read the more prominent treble makes it better for classical music. Most people emphatically suggest the BH Crack to pair with the 600s but they seem to like it for the warmth and "gooey" sound they introduce to the phones, which to my understanding means the bass is more and the treble is recessed. In my case, if I mostly listen to orchestral/vocals, would the Crack be working against me given I prefer the 600 over the 650 (just based on internet reviews. Never actually heard the 650s unfortunately)? 
 
The number 1 thing I'm looking for is "real" sound. As in, real sounding instruments, real sounding voices. While I feel the O2 is very accurate, it does seem unnatural at times. I watched Z's video where he compares SS to tube amps, and the Woo seemed to make the voices a lot more "real" than the solid state amps. So I guess I'm willing to sacrifice absolute accuracy/neutrality for naturalness/realism. 

Would the Crack (both with or without speedball) be a good or bad choice for this? If bad, does anyone have any other recommendations? 
 
Thank you so much!

 

[Timoteo80]

Hey guys,

 
I'm seeking some advice for the HD600/Bottlehead Crack combo. I currently have the 600 + O2, but may soon be looking for an amplifier upgrade.

 
I picked the 600 over the 650 because I've read the more prominent treble makes it better for classical music. Most people emphatically suggest the BH Crack to pair with the 600s but they seem to like it for the warmth and "gooey" sound they introduce to the phones, which to my understanding means the bass is more and the treble is recessed. In my case, if I mostly listen to orchestral/vocals, would the Crack be working against me given I prefer the 600 over the 650 (just based on internet reviews. Never actually heard the 650s unfortunately)? 

 
The number 1 thing I'm looking for is "real" sound. As in, real sounding instruments, real sounding voices. While I feel the O2 is very accurate, it does seem unnatural at times. I watched Z's video where he compares SS to tube amps, and the Woo seemed to make the voices a lot more "real" than the solid state amps. So I guess I'm willing to sacrifice absolute accuracy/neutrality for naturalness/realism. 


Would the Crack (both with or without speedball) be a good or bad choice for this? If bad, does anyone have any other recommendations? 

Thank you so much!

Hi!
Well like you I have not heard the HD650 either. But I own the HD600/Crack (stock) combo. To me the two sound FANTASTIC together. I actually felt the Crack opened up & sped up the sound. Yes they have a very natural sound. It I don't feel it's gooey at all & that is without the Speedball upgrade. I've read that the SB tightens up the sound in all aspects & goes away from the tube sound a bit. I have my SB kit sitting hear waiting to be installed but I'm enjoying the stock Crack so much that I'm waiting until I want a change to install it.
When I first finished the build & fired it up the first time my eyes literally widened & a huge smile came across my face. I didn't know what to expect but I was VERY pleased with the sound & continue to go thru my vinyl/CD collection enjoying my music all over.
I highly recommend the Crack. But I recommend building it stock to enjoy it then install SB later to hear the difference.
Hope this help bud!

 

[DavidA]

  Hey guys,
 
I'm seeking some advice for the HD600/Bottlehead Crack combo. I currently have the 600 + O2, but may soon be looking for an amplifier upgrade.
 
I picked the 600 over the 650 because I've read the more prominent treble makes it better for classical music. Most people emphatically suggest the BH Crack to pair with the 600s but they seem to like it for the warmth and "gooey" sound they introduce to the phones, which to my understanding means the bass is more and the treble is recessed. In my case, if I mostly listen to orchestral/vocals, would the Crack be working against me given I prefer the 600 over the 650 (just based on internet reviews. Never actually heard the 650s unfortunately)? 
 
The number 1 thing I'm looking for is "real" sound. As in, real sounding instruments, real sounding voices. While I feel the O2 is very accurate, it does seem unnatural at times. I watched Z's video where he compares SS to tube amps, and the Woo seemed to make the voices a lot more "real" than the solid state amps. So I guess I'm willing to sacrifice absolute accuracy/neutrality for naturalness/realism. 

Would the Crack (both with or without speedball) be a good or bad choice for this? If bad, does anyone have any other recommendations? 
 
Thank you so much!

I had both HD600 and HD650 with my BH Crack (update capacitors, SB and tubes), the BH Crack with the SB will be close to what you are looking for.  For me the ODAC/O2 was not a good match for most of my headphones, very thin sounding with most (some may call this natural/neutral) but since I'm not interested in natural/neutral but more musical and the slight peak in the 4-5khz range of the HD600 bothered me at times so it got sold to a friend who really wanted them, but after hearing a ypsilon custom build she also sold the HD600 since the ypsilon to her is more natural/neutral with better dynamics, sound stage and balanced FR and is easy to drive so she doesn't have to consider an amp.

 

[bladefd]

I just received my used HD600 but it has only male 1/4" 6.3mm and no converter to 3.5mm plug included. That little converter costs $20 on amazon??? Does it have to be from Sennheiser or would any work? I might look on ebay..

My amp is DACport HD so only have 3.5mm plug

 

[DavidA]

I just received my used HD600 but it has only male 1/4" 6.3mm and no converter to 3.5mm plug included. That little converter costs $20 on amazon??? Does it have to be from Sennheiser or would any work? I might look on ebay..

My amp is DACport HD so only have 3.5mm plug

While almost any adapter will do, most like the Grado 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter since it has a short cable length to relieve some stress of the 3.5mm jack.

 

[bladefd]

I found one in house.

Just connected and playing some music now. Compared to my vintage DT880 600ohms, these definitely sound more neutral overall (DT880 are fairly neutral as well with bit more focus on the highs but hd600 sound even more neutral). HD600 has bit stronger better bass (not too strong bass though - it is just right), highs are not as clear and developed as DT880 but just fine. HD600 better mids by very small margin - I cannot easily notice the difference in mids... As for the highs, HD600 sound more natural but DT880 more developed and cleaner highs. HD600 has better soundstage and richer detailed overall sound.

DT880 significantly more comfortable. HD600 don't leave much clearance room outside ears. I might change pads to HM5 velours.. HD600 pads are not uncomfortable per say, but I can feel them around my ears. After few hours, I think these may get bit uncomfortable.

Value-wise...... Is HD600 $120 worth better than the DT880 (which are currently $180)? Definitely not, but if both were equal cost, I would take the HD600.. If I'm on a budget, I would take the DT880 and be very happy. HD600 sound better for sure, but the difference is not night and day to my ears. It's a fairly close call - not worth $120 more. Luckily, I won these 600s off ebay for $175.

Keep in mind I'm comparing to vintage DT880. I don't know how different are modern day DT880s are.

 

[bladefd]

Do you guys find HM5 velours to be more comfortable than stock HD600 pads? Is there more clearance room around the ears around HM5? The HD600 stock pads are touching my ears. :basshead:

 

[JediMa70]

  The project Polaris at $250 is one of the best deals, it is very flexible since you can change the output resistance/impedance to match almost any headphone.  Only problem is it might end up costing you a lot more since it has to be shipped to Europe where you probably have import tax and other fees. 
 
The sweet spot for amps IMO is about $350-$500, at this level you can also find some used Mojo, m9xx, Ember, G-109, HA-501, BH Crack, Lyr2, and a few others, these are all amps that pair well with the HD600.

I've found a good reseller here in italy bout two amps, but I honestly dont know them, G-103 and Meier Corda Rock or Jazz, what do you think bout them?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Do you guys find HM5 velours to be more comfortable than stock HD600 pads? Is there more clearance room around the ears around HM5? The HD600 stock pads are touching my ears.

 
The angled pads I'm sure - they're much thicker to the rear and at enough of an angle that the imaging and treble actually mellowed out a bit. As for the regular pads, I wouldn't bet on it - haven't tried them but if their average thickness is the same as the front side of the angled pads, they're only a hair thicker than the Sennheiser pads.

 

[bladefd]

The angled pads I'm sure - they're much thicker to the rear and at enough of an angle that the imaging and treble actually mellowed out a bit. As for the regular pads, I wouldn't bet on it - haven't tried them but if their average thickness is the same as the front side of the angled pads, they're only a hair thicker than the Sennheiser pads.

How is the ear clearance? Stock HD600 pads are touching my ears. Do the HM5 pads have more clearance for the ears?

 

[bladefd]

After some googling, I found these earpad sizes


Name==========Interior Height==========Interior Width==========Interior Depth
Brainwavz HM5 (flat Velour)==========70mm==========50mm==========30mm
Brainwavz HM5 (Angle)==========70mm==========40mm==========40mm-25mm

Sennheiser HD600/HD650==========70mm==========41mm==========23mm


If true, that's interesting. Interior width is less on angled HM5 vs stock HD600 pads.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

How is the ear clearance? Stock HD600 pads are touching my ears. Do the HM5 pads have more clearance for the ears?

 
I thought you meant the depth, sorry. No, they feel a little bit tighter in there in terms of circumference.
 

After some googling, I found these earpad sizes


Name==========Interior Height==========Interior Width==========Interior Depth
Brainwavz HM5 (flat Velour)==========70mm==========50mm==========30mm
Brainwavz HM5 (Angle)==========70mm==========40mm==========40mm-25mm

Sennheiser HD600/HD650==========70mm==========41mm==========23mm


If true, that's interesting. Interior width is less on angled HM5 vs stock HD600 pads.

 
I got crosseyed at the alignments of that "table"...that 1mm is a lot larger than it looks (ie I can actually it's a bit more cramped around  the earlobes, although not really pressing against them), but in your case since you don't like the earlobes touching the earpads then 1mm less is just making that worse.
 
That said, how are they "touching"? Because the thing with the HD600 and similar, oval-earcup headphones is that they don't have much front to rear length to begin with, and there's a difference between just plain touching and outright pressing against. If your ears aren't getting mashed it's just a matter of getting used to them.
 
Alternately you can just get rid of the HD600 and get the HE400S or HE350. These come with round earcups that have more real estate front to rear.