[Midgetguy]

I own both the 600 & 650 & I think they are both fantastic phones. Actually like them both more than the 700. There's certain music I listen to where the 600 performs better and vice versa. But from my experience I think they both sound better on an otl amplifier. I've also got a violectric amp which drives them well, but I perfer the warm lush sound of tubes with the hd series. Now that the weather has changed I can wear my sennheiser sweat shirt when I gear up. Cheers

The HD700 is so totally not worth the premium over the HD600. I haven't listened to both successively on the same equipment to say exactly which one I like more or think is better, but I can say without a doubt that it's not worth more than the HD600 by such a margin. I will say however that the HD700 may be the most comfortable headphone I've ever put on before and that has to do mostly with just how much space is inside the ear cups. There are plenty of headphones that look like they should have plenty of space but once the earpads compress slightly to form around your head, there's less space than you thought. Not the case with the HD700, at least for me.

 

[Invocation]

I own both the 600 & 650 & I think they are both fantastic phones. Actually like them both more than the 700. There's certain music I listen to where the 600 performs better and vice versa. But from my experience I think they both sound better on an otl amplifier. I've also got a violectric amp which drives them well, but I perfer the warm lush sound of tubes with the hd series. Now that the weather has changed I can wear my sennheiser sweat shirt when I gear up. Cheers

 
I agree. 600 is good at vocal and strings with its beautiful and cleaner treble but 650 has a wider soundstage most suitable for larger symphonic works (I mainly listen to classical). So it is a hard decision to pick one. If I have enough budget I would keep both. Maybe next Black Friday

 

[raybone0566]

The HD700 is so totally not worth the premium over the HD600. I haven't listened to both successively on the same equipment to say exactly which one I like more or think is better, but I can say without a doubt that it's not worth more than the HD600 by such a margin. I will say however that the HD700 may be the most comfortable headphone I've ever put on before and that has to do mostly with just how much space is inside the ear cups. There are plenty of headphones that look like they should have plenty of space but once the earpads compress slightly to form around your head, there's less space than you thought. Not the case with the HD700, at least for me.

From what I hear with it. Although it is a very clear sounding headphone. It has a godawful mid bass hump that tends to muddy things up and i believe it loses some of its detail. I noticed that recently when comparing it to my 560's. They do have the best bass slam out the bunch though. But I'd rate them 800, 650,600, 700. The 600 &650 are for just laying back and enjoying, the 800's are for more critical listening.

 

[raybone0566]

 

[yangian]

   
I agree. 600 is good at vocal and strings with its beautiful and cleaner treble but 650 has a wider soundstage most suitable for larger symphonic works (I mainly listen to classical). So it is a hard decision to pick one. If I have enough budget I would keep both. Maybe next Black Friday

You say 650 have wider soundstage? What are you using to drive 650? To my ear, soundstage of 650 is obviously smaller than 600. I just bought 650. I'm not sure if it needed burn-in.

 

[nbakid2000]

Wow, they list it again for MSRP? It's not that much on Amazon, even with tax.

Yo, Amazon has it 399 now, full price. Best Buy didn't even try to drop their price when Amazon had it down to 320 and 314. Their price was full up 399 consistently.

 

[Invocation]

This is what I am using:
https://www.jdslabs.com/products/151/the-element/
 
Not an expensive amp though. I tried some Mahler with both headphones and I can clearly figure out the position of different instrument groups with 650, while in 600 they all squeezed to the middle.

 

[Invocation]

You can always call bestbuy and ask for a price match. They do match with Amazon and B&H.

 

[faisal2003456]

Wow. For anyone who has ever wondered, the Fiio E10k can drive the HD600 pretty well.....

 

[Billheiser]

Senn-sational!

 

[yangian]

  This is what I am using:
https://www.jdslabs.com/products/151/the-element/
 
Not an expensive amp though. I tried some Mahler with both headphones and I can clearly figure out the position of different instrument groups with 650, while in 600 they all squeezed to the middle.

That means it cannot drive 600 well.

 

[Brooko]

  That means it cannot drive 600 well.

 
Sorry - but you've go to stop insinuating things like this - when in reality you simply don't know.  There is no magic with this.  It is simply a matter of current and voltage swing vs impedance and sensitivity.  The HD600 is not a hard load to drive.
 
And if you looked into the specs on the Element, it can put 140 mW into 600 ohm (9.4 Vrms) and 1/2 a watt into 32 ohms - so it's basically a little powerhouse with more than enough voltage and current to handle most headphones easily.
 
I was going to comment the other day when I saw some of the things you were saying.  If you want to know how easy the HD600 is to drive, I'm sitting here with mine being powered by a tiny little Fiio X1, which only puts a tiny 8 mW into the HD600 (according to the specs), but which sounds absolutely brilliant on low gain at 60-65/100.  It doesn't sound at all under-driven.
 
Most of the time I'll use my Senns with something more powerful - but in a pinch it is amazing what will drive them.
 
You suggested that the Topping TP30 "could not drive them well" - yet it has sufficient voltage swing (10 vpp = ~ 3.5 Vrms) and will put 140 mw into 32 ohms, so at a guess, around 12-13 mW into 300 ohm. That should be enough to get them easily to 100-110 dB.
 
If you're looking for a rule of thumb - then an ideal amp output spec would be:
4-6 Vrms
15-20 mA
Around 60+ mW
That would get you all the power you'd ever need - bordering on the threshold of pain in terms of volume
 
But reality is that you can get by with a lot less 

 

 

[yangian]

Sorry - but you've go to stop insinuating things like this - when in reality you simply don't know.  There is no magic with this.  It is simply a matter of current and voltage swing vs impedance and sensitivity.  The HD600 is not a hard load to drive.

And if you looked into the specs on the Element, it can put 140 mW into 600 ohm (9.4 Vrms) and 1/2 a watt into 32 ohms - so it's basically a little powerhouse with more than enough voltage and current to handle most headphones easily.

I was going to comment the other day when I saw some of the things you were saying.  If you want to know how easy the HD600 is to drive, I'm sitting here with mine being powered by a tiny little Fiio X1, which only puts a tiny 8 mW into the HD600 (according to the specs), but which sounds absolutely brilliant on low gain at 60-65/100.  It doesn't sound at all under-driven.

Most of the time I'll use my Senns with something more powerful - but in a pinch it is amazing what will drive them.

You suggested that the Topping TP30 "could not drive them well" - yet it has sufficient voltage swing (10 vpp = ~ 3.5 Vrms) and will put 140 mw into 32 ohms, so at a guess, around 12-13 mW into 300 ohm. That should be enough to get them easily to 100-110 dB.

If you're looking for a rule of thumb - then an ideal amp output spec would be:
4-6 Vrms
15-20 mA
Around 60+ mW
That would get you all the power you'd ever need - bordering on the threshold of pain in terms of volume

But reality is that you can get by with a lot less   
[/quote]

sorry, i have no many theories. But i know 600 did not sound like that. And i know on e12, 600 does sound congested. so what's your point? 600 sounda congeated?
Yes.My Xduoo X3 can drive 600 good enough. But i hesitate sying x3 can well drive 600. And i never use x3 to listen to 600.

 

[henkie196]

The numbers will only tell you what volume you might be able to reach with a specific amp. But unless you want to get hearing damage, it's usually not really relevant. To me, it's more important that the signal is well controlled.
 
@yangian: Your HD650 may need burn-in, yes. I've not listened to the HD650 extensively, but I know that once I auditioned them in the store and it sounded quite awful - loose bass and messy treble. I can't imagine that they would normally sound that much worse than a HD600, so I can only assume that that pair needed some burn-in.

 

[yangian]

The numbers will only tell you what volume you might be able to reach with a specific amp. But unless you want to get hearing damage, it's usually not really relevant. To me, it's more important that the signal is well controlled.

@yangian
: Your HD650 may need burn-in, yes. I've not listened to the HD650 extensively, but I know that once I auditioned them in the store and it sounded quite awful - loose bass and messy treble. I can't imagine that they would normally sound that much worse than a HD600, so I can only assume that that pair needed some burn-in.

My apm. can drive it great except soundstage. Its obviously smaller than my 600. Maybe need both burn-in and a more proper amplifier. Thanks.