[palmfish]

Thats interesting.  I find the 500's to have a hump in their frequency, but I find it comes out more in the midrange where the vocals are.  Gives them a honky quality.  all the treble seems pretty wooly to me.  never would have placed the spike that high.  bass is killer though.

That's how they sound to me too. Its not as dramatic sounding as you describe, but its the only way to describe it.

 

[BBEG]

I happen to like the HD600's and own a pair. I did a lot of in my hands comparative listening before I took the plunge. They even hold up well to my orthos and the HD600's cost a lot less and are easier to drive.

 


I've already got 'em and so far have enjoyed them, but I'm asking about what DAC/amp combo I ought to get for them that will cost less than $400, preferably less than $300.

 

[DefQon]

  Bring it on. I'm an electrical engineer that has designed electronic music synthesizers, Industrial Automation Instrumentation, Analog and Digital Comunications Systems and have been in some of the finest recording studios in New York. Many of my designs were tested and certified in laboratories, even the NBS in the USA or others around the world. I've been around the block, several times.

Ok I'm back from the dead.
 
If you really are an EE you should be ashamed of your post and for the record just because you're one doesn't mean you have the know it all of these sort of circuits/design but I'm not saying that I have also.
 
Back to my previous post I asked what design flaws do the amps exhibit, you have not stated one related technical thing about it other than go into non-sense about why P2P wiring is bad, reading specs regurgitating off Schiits website or what Jason and others have posted before on this forum and something along these lines about soundstaging and greater voltage swing is BETTER.
 
If you said the amp exhibits flaws with it's design what sort of flaws? I expect something along the lines of for e.g bad/incorrect CCS implementation, clusterfk output stage toplogies, incorrect direct coupled or capacitor load ends, no circuit ground or regulated heater/filament supply etc. You should not be afraid to go into detail after posts like those encourage feedback and revision (better yet when the designer see's it).
 
Another thing is you failed to address properly is a great voltage swing doesn't mean better proper engineers that have been in the field for a long time i.e Pass don't follow the rule of MOAR IS BETTER or BIGGER IS BETTER (not to the extent most clueless people on head-fi describe it as), you can have a badly designed gainclone (Darkstar) that have a greater voltage swing than a well designed and executed amp but sound like complete arse or in other words can be greatly improved on it literally puts the design or manufacturer to shame of the current revision.
 
Another thing you talked about which I find is complete bs but hey it's just me is P2P wiring. If tube amp designed with simplicity in mind, very low count of parts running along B+ around 250-400vdc minimum with no solid state front end or similar parts used, it makes complete sense for it to use P2P wiring rather PCB, off the shelf retail high end amplifiers are not for you to service or poke around, of course I agree with you PCB does provide a more error free or cleaner approach but for circuits that operate on high B+ or use a lot more current and especially where internal heat becomes a problem where parts are more prone to wearing out easily, P2P wiring provides the fastest and least messiest approach should troubleshooting or servicing is somewhat "regularly" required. Maybe all those 50/60/70's expert engineer circuit designers are talking smack when they said P2P wiring is good for these particular uses, to see my point in the works look at guitar tube amps and some of those fancy high-end tube amp manufacturers these days. Some have reported that P2P wiring is even better for high current designs because there almost zero crosstalk compared to the closely spaced traces on them PCB's and that it sounds better than populated PCB equivalents.
 
Lastly and I may have missed out something else as I'm typing this in a rush to get my point out is ok since you're comparing the Crack vs the Valhalla, regardless of which is badly designed both have one thing in common is it uses tubes true but two different approach at the same problem and that is driving headphone loads. Maybe the Crack has really bad and highly distorted measurement if put on the O-scope that Doc is afraid of posting, maybe it measures superbly that I don't know but seriously you're comparing two different designs, yes the Valhalla can drive low-z phones as well but if we put subjective into the context I can tell you here and right now and I know there a lot of others out there that the Crack does a better job driving mildly high z phones such as the 600/650 and even the 800 better then Valhalla.
 
I don't stick up behind my favourite manufacturer (non really other than diy) and shill them but if you really think the Crack is that bad and flawed as per se you've mentioned in the previous pages, I encourage you greatly to start a contributing thread here or personally with Doc B and address them with him because as far as I see it Doc B has brought amps to the table (budget diy mind you) and you have not. If you can bring a diy kit that not only sounds better than the Crack but similar price range to the masses and have intelligence praise it than I'll take back what I've said.
 
Just to add as quick edit:
 
Here's a quote of the day on a similar topic on another site but it pretty much covers what I've been trying to get my point across as:
 
"All amplifiers and amplifier topologies are compromises. The design engineer balances one thing against another."

 

[spurxiii]

I have both cans and like both of them. The HD600 has a more even tempered treble where the HE-500's have a treble peak around 9-10 kHz that might bother you after extended listening or not, it's just a few db but enough to plainly hear the difference. The HE-500's have a very nice bass.

The HE500s can be fatiguing at times and the bass although good when I first heard them is definitely not that great. It's a good all rounder

 

[rodfarva]

I purchased a brand new Sennheiser HD 600 last week with its full warranty, tried it once, and was disappointed in how it sounded without an amp (yes I know it needs an amp, but I do not have the funds for one). If anyone lives in Los Angeles and would like to pick it up for $320 please let me know. I will provide you with the receipt to set up the warranty. (I would just return it, but this saves me shipping costs). Thanks! 

 

[Lorspeaker]

can u try some parttime work...for a month...by the beach... 

​

 

[frequencies]

Some posts ago I posted this but here is it again because it kind of comes up in the posts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89pjq1mGstA#t=11m At least he couldn't tell a difference between a Objective 2 and a Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies.
 
I listen mostly to classical music too, hi.
 

I purchased a brand new Sennheiser HD 600 last week with its full warranty, tried it once, and was disappointed in how it sounded without an amp (yes I know it needs an amp, but I do not have the funds for one).

The amp and DAC from Schiit is the least expensive one (and still comparable with the Objective 2+ODAC combo, witch is a bit more expensive) 100$ for amp+100$ for DAC, maybe you should try, you can still sell is all again.

 

[Shaffer]

Some posts ago I posted this but here is it again because it kind of comes up in the posts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89pjq1mGstA#t=11m At least he couldn't tell a difference between a Objective 2 and a Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies.

I listen mostly to classical music too, hi.

The amp and DAC from Schiit is the least expensive one (and still comparable with the Objective 2+ODAC combo, witch is a bit more expensive) 100$ for amp+100$ for DAC, maybe you should try, you can still sell is all again.

When my 71 year old mother climbs into my +400hp Evolution IX, it feels just like her Buick, when she looks out the window.

 

[palmfish]

How do you get your mother to even get in your car? Mine refuses...

 

[guywithtwohands]

Hi! I just got these the other day and they sound pretty awesome albeit rather similar to my Sennheiser PC 360 (HD 555 with mic as I've come to understand) with maybe a bit more clarity and detail.

I'm driving them from a FiiO E10 (originally I intended to buy and keep some Beyerdynamic DT880s 250 ohm - that's why I got the E10 - but comfort-wise, the Beyerdynamics just didn't work for me, so I returned them).

The HD 600, however, fits my head very well.

Anyway, I've been reading that the E10 doesn't do the HD 600 justice, so I sort of want to get another amplifier in the near future. Is the E10 the reason the HD 600 only sounds minimally better than what I had, or would the difference between the E10 and, say, an O2, be minimal at best?

But for the time being, the E10 will have to do. I'm a little curious about whether I should use high or low gain, though. As far as I can tell, high gain only makes the volume a little higher (on high gain I can keep the volume knob at 2/8 and have it be loud enough - on low gain I would put it at 3/8 for roughly the same effect...)

 

[madwolfa]

  End result, the soundstage is now rock-solid and dead centre.

 
Had the same problem with shifted soundstage. Replacing both drivers solved it. Next time I will think before cleaning the dust off the drivers by blowing air into them.

 

[satanigatan]

I've been putting in 12 hour days with my new HD-600s. I just love them so much. Makes me so happy that I replaced my broken pair I got back in 2005. I've been jumping around to different genres. Went from some Anime Orchestra Soundtrack to Iron Maiden. Everything sounds so good. 

 

[palmfish]

Hi! I just got these the other day and they sound pretty awesome albeit rather similar to my Sennheiser PC 360 (HD 555 with mic as I've come to understand) with maybe a bit more clarity and detail.

I'm driving them from a FiiO E10 (originally I intended to buy and keep some Beyerdynamic DT880s 250 ohm - that's why I got the E10 - but comfort-wise, the Beyerdynamics just didn't work for me, so I returned them).

The HD 600, however, fits my head very well.

Anyway, I've been reading that the E10 doesn't do the HD 600 justice, so I sort of want to get another amplifier in the near future. Is the E10 the reason the HD 600 only sounds minimally better than what I had, or would the difference between the E10 and, say, an O2, be minimal at best?

But for the time being, the E10 will have to do. I'm a little curious about whether I should use high or low gain, though. As far as I can tell, high gain only makes the volume a little higher (on high gain I can keep the volume knob at 2/8 and have it be loud enough - on low gain I would put it at 3/8 for roughly the same effect...)

Stories of the HD 600's remarkable scaling abilities with expensive amps are grossly overstated. Some tube amps noticeably change the sound but between well designed SS amps, you wont notice much (or any) difference.

 

[frequencies]

Anyway, I've been reading that the E10 doesn't do the HD 600 justice

I agree. I don't know how good E18 is (or E10), but I read E18 is not bad. E10 is a bit old and FiiO/others learned a few in the last years in this price range.

 

[roguegeek]

How do you guys feel about pairing the HD 600 to the Audio-GD NFB-11.32? I'm looking for an amp and dac around the $300-500 price range that will place nice with the HD 600, HD 700, and several others. Know anything else I should be looking at?