[blueangel2323]

Wow, I had no idea the Crack was so big. From seeing pictures of it, without any headphones beside it for comparison, it looked quite small.
 
Speaking of amps, I compared the built in amp on my Yulong D100 MKII with my M-Stage using the D100 as a DAC only. With the stock op amp on the M-Stage, both sound almost identical, except that treble seems just a tiny bit crisper and brighter on the D100. With the LM4562 upgrade, the M-Stage has significantly tighter and punchier bass. The difference is not huge but still easily noticeable. The bass on the D100 rumbles a lot more but isn't as controlled. Ultimately I decided to sell the M-Stage because the amp section on the D100 is too good to justify having both.
 
That being said, would the Crack be a significant upgrade from the M-Stage? How about the A100?

 

[amcananey]

I would expect the Crack to be a significant upgrade over both WHEN USED WITH THE HD600s. I'm not trying to denigrate other amps, just pointing out that the synergy between the HD800/HD650/HD600/HD580 and the Crack is amazing. The Crack, when combined with any of those cans, produces a world-class rig.

Those cans are all much better with OTL tube amps than solid state amps.

 

[devhen]

 

  @ amcananey,
  Have you run your HD600's balanced out of your Mjolnir?  I remember reading about some very-positive impressions of the HD600 when balanced. 

 
With the HD600s, I would much rather have the Crack than the Mjolnir (my HD600s are wired for balanced use - I use them with a 1/4" TRS adapter with my Crack). No question. With other cans it's a different story...

 
There's been a lot of talk lately about whether the improvements gained by running cans balanced is overrated or if its even a myth altogether. What cans do you have balanced and what improvements have you noticed from running them that way, compared to single ended?

 

[amcananey]

I believe more in differences between amps, than I do in single-ended vs. balanced. My HD800s, HD600s, AKG K1000s, HiFiMAN HE-6s, and D7000s are all balanced. To be honest, I haven't really compared how they compare balanced vs. single-ended with the amps I have that have both options. In general, if I'm listening to cans that are balanced on an amp that has a balanced output, then I use them balanced. If the amp doesn't have a balanced output, or my cans aren't balanced, then I run them single-ended.

 

[devhen]

I believe more in differences between amps, than I do in single-ended vs. balanced. My HD800s, HD600s, AKG K1000s, HiFiMAN HE-6s, and D7000s are all balanced. To be honest, I haven't really compared how they compare balanced vs. single-ended with the amps I have that have both options. In general, if I'm listening to cans that are balanced on an amp that has a balanced output, then I use them balanced. If the amp doesn't have a balanced output, or my cans aren't balanced, then I run them single-ended.

 
Thanks. That sounds reasonable. Maybe sometime when you're bored you could do some A/B testing of the same can using the same amp, balanced versus single ended, and let us know? I'm starting to think this whole balancing act, pardon the pun, is maybe a bit of a myth brought on by expectation bias.

 

[LugBug1]

Finally got to own some HD600's today. It's one of those headphones that I missed out on on my journey as I instead went for the 650's. But I've always wanted to try them. 
 
Anyways, I'm really impressed. I can say for certain that I prefer them over the 650's. They have such a well balanced presentation. Excellent timbre as to be expected with Sennheiser. I'm also surprised at the soundstage, I've had the HD800's for about 8 months now and was expecting a much more closed in sound from the 600's. But theres not a great lot in it. I'll try and describe what I mean... 
The actual soundstage is very similar in size with respect to how far the sound stretches from the centre to the sides/top to bottom. Only the image is larger on the HD800's. Kind of like going from a 32inch tv to a 42inch.
There is a slight difference in sound signature, as the 800's do have the extra frequency extension (or emphasis) at both ends, most noticeably in the treble. Details are more present and sharper with the 800's. The mids are very similar. Its early days but I might even prefer the bass of the 600's. It's a little more punchy. 
 
My advice to anyone who owns these that may never be able to afford the HD800's. Don't worry about! Just enjoy their friendlier little brother. 
 
I also bent the metal on the headband to ease the vice grip.  
 
Got them plugged into a vintage Sansui AU-505 and the sound is very sweet. Full, deep and controlled.
 

 

[blueangel2323]

Nice impressions! I am a little confused by your comments about the size of the soundstage though 

 

[LugBug1]

  Nice impressions! I am a little confused by your comments about the size of the soundstage though 

 
Thank you  
 
And you're not the only one who is confused about my comments.... And I wrote them! 
 
I think I mean that.. The soundstage is the same form - in relation to width and height only on a slightly smaller scale. Yup 'scale' is the word we're looking for here. 
 
LCD2's have a narrow one... K701's have a wide pillar box one... etc. But the Senn's have a perfect round bubble of a soundstage. Only the HD800's have a bigger bubble.
 
Got it?

 

 

[Keithpgdrb]

   
There's been a lot of talk lately about whether the improvements gained by running cans balanced is overrated or if its even a myth altogether. What cans do you have balanced and what improvements have you noticed from running them that way, compared to single ended?

 
I have compared various cans balanced/not balanced.  It is not a myth.  the sound is superior imho.  More open, greater soundstage, greater separation, truer texture.  this all depends of course on the care given to a quality balanced out.  
 
A great example is the eddie current amp.  it has both single end and balanced with high quality build quality.  The difference is easily heard.
 
That being said, I love the crack amp a lot with the 600's.  dont think I would splurge for a balanced set up with the crack in play.  Its a match made in heaven.

 

[devhen]

 
I have compared various cans balanced/not balanced.  It is not a myth.  the sound is superior imho.  More open, greater soundstage, greater separation, truer texture.  this all depends of course on the care given to a quality balanced out.  
 
A great example is the eddie current amp.  it has both single end and balanced with high quality build quality.  The difference is easily heard.
 
That being said, I love the crack amp a lot with the 600's.  dont think I would splurge for a balanced set up with the crack in play.  Its a match made in heaven.

 
Thanks for that. Have you by chance tried an XLR to 1/4" adapter with the Eddie Current so you can compare balanced vs single ended out of the same output? A balanced amp is basically two single-ended amps put together right so I would think it would be possible that the balanced output of an amp might be superior to its single-ended output regardless of what cans were used and whether they were balanced. Or am I misunderstanding that?
 
Along those same lines-- what's the difference between recabling a headphone to be balanced and just plugging an unbalanced headphone into an adapter and using a balanced output that way? You'd still be getting a discrete amp for each channel and potentially a better stereo image as you described, no?
 
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding any or all of this, I'm just trying to make sense of it so I don't end up buying a bunch of expensive single ended equipment and wishing I would have looked into balanced stuff instead. Just trying to suss out the potential improvements that I could get.
 
Thanks, and if any of you other folks have knowledge on this subject please, enlighten me! It'd be much appreciated.

 

[amcananey]

You can use headphones that are wired for balanced use with a single-ended amp by using an adapter. You cannot use the balanced out of an amp with non-balanced headphones using an adapter: you will create a short in the amp. So there is no way to compare a balanced output of an amp with both balanced and unbalanced headphones (assuming the amp is truly balanced, as opposed to just being a single-ended amp with a 4-pin XLR headphone jack).

 

[palmfish]

   
Thanks for that. Have you by chance tried an XLR to 1/4" adapter with the Eddie Current so you can compare balanced vs single ended out of the same output? A balanced amp is basically two single-ended amps put together right so I would think it would be possible that the balanced output of an amp might be superior to its single-ended output regardless of what cans were used and whether they were balanced. Or am I misunderstanding that?
 
Along those same lines-- what's the difference between recabling a headphone to be balanced and just plugging an unbalanced headphone into an adapter and using a balanced output that way? You'd still be getting a discrete amp for each channel and potentially a better stereo image as you described, no?
 
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding any or all of this, I'm just trying to make sense of it so I don't end up buying a bunch of expensive single ended equipment and wishing I would have looked into balanced stuff instead. Just trying to suss out the potential improvements that I could get.
 
Thanks, and if any of you other folks have knowledge on this subject please, enlighten me! It'd be much appreciated.

 
 
This isn't the forum for going into a lot of detail, but basically, when most people say "balanced" they are really talking about a "bridged" amp. That's two amps in one chasis - one for each channel. In theory, a bridged amp is better because your splitting the "work" between two amps. The reality is that one amp properly designed and sufficiently powerful to drive a pair of headphones will not be working hard at all so there is no need for "two amps" in one box. If a person states that the balanced output sounds better than the unbalanced output, I bet the comparison was not performed with precise volume matching or blind conditions - two requirements for accurate comparison.
 
Balanced is simply a wiring method to reduce noise/hum in long cable runs. Not a factor in home audio.

 

[MrEleventy]

 

[palmfish]

 
Come on now... LOL

 

[MrEleventy]

That's where these "discussions" tend to go... I'm just getting ready. hehe