[Hay2104]

It was just an experiment, albeit a successful one. I wanted more bass, so as to balance out the sound. Thus the reason why I done that mod. The HD600’s lack of sub-bass frustrated me, and it was why ultimately I ended up replacing it with AKG K712. I’ve also owned a Beyerdynamic DT150 but I don’t find it’s sound signature that similar to HD600. The modded closed-back HD600 I had produced a good bit more sub-bass. This might surprise you but my favourite Sennheiser is the Momentum 1.0 on-ears. I used to own the HD700 but HD700 sounded sub-par with most of my equipment. The Momentum 1.0 on-ears sounded good with everything, it had a fun but accurate sound signature, was infinitely more comfortable and made from more premium materials. And it only cost me £120.

The Sennheiser momentum 2.0 I used to use was pretty good for me. They fit really well and had a nice kick in the bass compared to my open back headphones.

 

[volly]

The Sennheiser momentum 2.0 I used to use was pretty good for me. They fit really well and had a nice kick in the bass compared to my open back headphones.

Momentum's are nice, grab a pair of HD380 Pro's if you want something similar to the 600's but with better bass and isolation! I miss mine (gifted to a family member), may have to grab another soonish!

 

[SilverEars]

After trying out several HD600s I realized that there are variances to how the uper-mids, lower treble sounds. I think some are closer to HD800's 6k (peaky) response and the other end of the spectrum, closer to the HD6XX in the upper-mids. So, depending on the HD600 driver, the upper-mids can sound a bit sharper and pushes out sibilance to greater degree.

I think this is the reason why I prefer the HD6XX for it's laid-back response, and back in the days the HD650 over the HD600 due to this higher level of upper-mids sharp-ness (for the one I had). I think there are HD600s out there that isn't so sharp and does get closest to neutral with what I consider the best tonality out of the 6 series (and it's closer to how the HD6XX sounds in the upper-mids, lower treble), but these maybe the unicorn HD600s. Some of you out there may have it, and others not. These should have the right level of upper-mids, lower-treble, and imaging seems to be well separated, and just sound good over all.

Personally, I think avg of HD6XX and peakier version of the HD600 would be the sweet spot in tonality.

 

[BrokeSkoolBoi]

After trying out several HD600s I realized that there are variances to how the uper-mids, lower treble sounds. I think some are closer to HD800's 6k (peaky) response and the other end of the spectrum, closer to the HD6XX in the upper-mids. So, depending on the HD600 driver, the upper-mids can sound a bit sharper and pushes out sibilance to greater degree.

I think this is the reason why I prefer the HD6XX for it's laid-back response, and back in the days the HD650 over the HD600 due to this higher level of upper-mids sharp-ness (for the one I had). I think there are HD600s out there that isn't so sharp and does get closest to neutral with what I consider the best tonality out of the 6 series (and it's closer to how the HD6XX sounds in the upper-mids, lower treble), but these maybe the unicorn HD600s. Some of you out there may have it, and others not. These should have the right level of upper-mids, lower-treble, and imaging seems to be well separated, and just sound good over all.

Personally, I think avg of HD6XX and peakier version of the HD600 would be the sweet spot in tonality.

My hd600 I received new this winter sounded sibilant in the upper mids through the stock cable. Once I received my periapt XLR it settled down when it came to the forwardness of the mids and sounded more relaxed and easier to listen to for more than an hour. My experience mirrored others who reported sibilance, especially with female vocals.

 

[Brooko]

My hd600 I received new this winter sounded sibilant in the upper mids through the stock cable. Once I received my periapt XLR it settled down when it came to the forwardness of the mids and sounded more relaxed and easier to listen to for more than an hour. My experience mirrored others who reported sibilance, especially with female vocals.

Interesting observation - but a pretty strange 1.

1. Sibilance is in a recording - not in a headphone - although a headphone can accentuate or dampen sibilance depending on its frequency response. A headphone will not cause sibilance though.
2. Every HD600 I've seen measurements for - including my own measurements of my one - show a peak at 3-4 kHz. And it seems to be very consistent.
3. Sibilance generally is caused by accentuation in the recording between 5-8 kHz (but can occur higher). Generally its not manifested \in the 3-4 kHz range. So an HD600 won't accentuate sibilance. They actually dip at that frequency range. They can be grainy sometimes - but generally not sibilant.
4. I'd love to see you measure the frequency response with stock cable and with your new cable. I have NEVER seen a cable dramatically affect a frequency response to the amount you've just described.

 

[SilverEars]

Interesting observation - but a pretty strange 1.

1. Sibilance is in a recording - not in a headphone - although a headphone can accentuate or dampen sibilance depending on its frequency response. A headphone will not cause sibilance though.
2. Every HD600 I've seen measurements for - including my own measurements of my one - show a peak at 3-4 kHz. And it seems to be very consistent.
3. Sibilance generally is caused by accentuation in the recording between 5-8 kHz (but can occur higher). Generally its not manifested \in the 3-4 kHz range. So an HD600 won't accentuate sibilance. They actually dip at that frequency range. They can be grainy sometimes - but generally not sibilant.
4. I'd love to see you measure the frequency response with stock cable and with your new cable. I have NEVER seen a cable dramatically affect a frequency response to the amount you've just described.

So, what are you trying to say? We are not hearing more sibilence? LOL. HD600 is outputting the sound including sibilence. We all know it's the recording related (it's nothing new), but the level of sibilence depends on the headphone (some sound harsh compared to others?). It does sound a bit harsh in certain regions and based on what I'm hearing. I'd expect differences to be 5-6k based on what I'm hearing the not around 3k that the Rtings graph is showing(the difference from HD650). I could be wrong, it may actually be 3-4k, or there is a difference somewhere in the 7k, but it does sound like what I know of 5-6k. At least on the Rtings graph, it shows more of a rise around 3k, but I have to see some decently reliable stuff to have good faith in them though and multiple new HD600s measured to be solid (than as you speculate above, because you haven't heard our headphones and your ears maybe ok with peaks. lol).

I do notice prominence in that area that pushes out sibilence levels to a greater degree, comparing 2 HD600s. there was a difference in how sharp one sounded over the other, and how forward it was. These were both brand new with fresh pads.

 

[Brooko]

So, what are you trying to say? We are not hearing more sibilence? LOL. HD600 is outputting the sound including sibilence. We all know it's the recording related (it's nothing new), but the level of sibilence depends on the headphone (some sound harsh compared to others?). It does sound a bit harsh in certain regions and based on what I'm hearing. I'd expect differences to be 5-6k based on what I'm hearing the not around 3k that the graphs are showing(the difference from HD650). I could be wrong, it may actually be 3-4k, or there is a difference somewhere in the 7k, but it does sound like what I know of 5-6k. At least on the Rtings graph, it shows more of a rise around 3k, but I have to see some decently reliable stuff to have good faith in them though and multiple new HD600s measured to be solid (than as you speculate above, because you haven't heard our headphones and your hears are ok with peaks. lol).

I do notice prominence in that area that pushes out sibilence levels to a greater degree, comparing 2 HD600s. there was a difference in how sharp one sounded over the other, and how forward it was. These were both brand new with fresh pads.

No I'm simply stating that the Senn HD600 (check any measured pair) has a raw peak usually between 3-4 kHz. Mine is centered at 4 kHz. Tylls measurements show 3-4 kHz. Others I ve seen on various sites are all in the 3.5-4 kHz range. Sibilance doesn't usually live there. It's higher up. Perhaps your recordings are particularly poorly mastered - and maybe you've been listening on very forgiving headphones?

What I'd suggest is getting someone to measure yours so we can get to the bottom of it? I'd find it very weird for Sennheiser to have measurements which are out by so much. With my HD600's - even replacing drivers, they are pretty much spot on, and very consistent. That is my experience - and again,backed up by most of the measurement info on the web.

And my comments were to BrokeSkoolBoi (notice I quoted him not you). I'd love to see him get his measured - and especially the cable differences. The HD600 is not particularly volatile with cable impedance - so how he's getting a frequency change is beyond me. Oh and since you did comment:

It does sound a bit harsh in certain regions and based on what I'm hearing.

Harshness is usually attributed to grain (not sibilance). And grain is usually manifest in the 2-4 kHz region - exactly where the Senns usual peak is. I agree - the HD600 can sometimes sound slightly grainy (say compared to an HD650) - but sibilant? Like I alluded to earlier - how is your recording? Do you have an example I can listen to on mine?

 

[SilverEars]

No I'm simply stating that the Senn HD600 (check any measured pair) has a raw peak usually between 3-4 kHz. Mine is centered at 4 kHz. Tylls measurements show 3-4 kHz. Others I ve seen on various sites are all in the 3.5-4 kHz range. Sibilance doesn't usually live there. It's higher up. Perhaps your recordings are particularly poorly mastered - and maybe you've been listening on very forgiving headphones?

What I'd suggest is getting someone to measure yours so we can get to the bottom of it? I'd find it very weird for Sennheiser to have measurements which are out by so much. With my HD600's - even replacing drivers, they are pretty much spot on, and very consistent. That is my experience - and again,backed up by most of the measurement info on the web.

And my comments were to BrokeSkoolBoi (notice I quoted him not you). I'd love to see him get his measured - and especially the cable differences. The HD600 is not particularly volatile with cable impedance - so how he's getting a frequency change is beyond me. Oh and since you did comment:


Harshness is usually attributed to grain (not sibilance). And grain is usually manifest in the 2-4 kHz region - exactly where the Senns usual peak is. I agree - the HD600 can sometimes sound slightly grainy (say compared to an HD650) - but sibilant? Like I alluded to earlier - how is your recording? Do you have an example I can listen to on mine?

Well, I think all you're going to do is keep talking about random graphs you seen online to back up your claims, although you haven't HEARD the headphones.

So, when I say harsh, it doesn't mean sibilence sounds harsh to my ears? lol. It has to be grain?

 

[BrokeSkoolBoi]

Interesting observation - but a pretty strange 1.

1. Sibilance is in a recording - not in a headphone - although a headphone can accentuate or dampen sibilance depending on its frequency response. A headphone will not cause sibilance though.
2. Every HD600 I've seen measurements for - including my own measurements of my one - show a peak at 3-4 kHz. And it seems to be very consistent.
3. Sibilance generally is caused by accentuation in the recording between 5-8 kHz (but can occur higher). Generally its not manifested \in the 3-4 kHz range. So an HD600 won't accentuate sibilance. They actually dip at that frequency range. They can be grainy sometimes - but generally not sibilant.
4. I'd love to see you measure the frequency response with stock cable and with your new cable. I have NEVER seen a cable dramatically affect a frequency response to the amount you've just described.

Of course the material where it bothered me the most was not well recorded. I suppose what I'm referring to is simply the forwardness of the vocals. I can understand what you're getting at since I briefly owned the hd700, it wasn't quite that experience/treble peak.

I noticed it most when listening to sonic youth on their album 'Goo'

 

[BrokeSkoolBoi]

Delete.

 

[Brooko]

Well, I think all you're going to do is keep talking about random graphs you seen online to back up your claims, although you haven't HEARD the headphones.

So, when I say harsh, it doesn't mean sibilence sounds harsh to my ears? lol. It has to be grain?

I have experience with 5 different pairs of HD600. I've owned 4 different pairs and have extensive time with them over an almost 10 year period. I've measured my own pairs and the raw data correlates with Tyll's system, and several other systems on other web-sites. They are all very closely related (the measurements). None of them show spikes in areas normally associated with sibilance.

Now how about you actually measure your pairs - and then we can talk?

And yes - the harshness is more likely to be manifest as grain rather than sibilance - especially where the HD600 is concerned.

If its simply a poor recording - the HD600 won't hide the sibilance. It will show it - but won't enhance it. Its frequency response is one of the reasons some studios have one on hand to check the mix post production. You wouldn't do that using a headphone with major issues.

 

[Brooko]

Of course the material where it bothered me the most was not well recorded. I suppose what I'm referring to is simply the forwardness of the vocals. I can understand what you're getting at since I briefly owned the hd700, it wasn't quite that experience/treble peak.

I noticed it most when listening to sonic youth on their album 'Goo'

Thanks for that - Spotifying them now. The album is Goo.

iFi iDSD > HD600 - no DSP. Pads on the HD600 are relatively new (less than a year old).
I'm enjoying the music - thanks for the share

There is definitely some sibilance there with my pair - but I'd say the issue lies more with the distortion on the guitars, and the obvious glare / grain in the recording. "Tunic (Song For Karen)" is pretty bad. Tried it with my HD800S and while its better (less grain) its still not overly pleasant. Definitely the recording. Sibilance is coming through on both headphones in similar amounts. You may need to either EQ to correct, or use a warmer sounding headphone for this band.

HD650 (or even the HD660S) might be closer to the more forgiving sound you're looking for.

 

[Makiah S]

Interesting observation - but a pretty strange 1.

1. Sibilance is in a recording - not in a headphone - although a headphone can accentuate or dampen sibilance depending on its frequency response. A headphone will not cause sibilance though.
2. Every HD600 I've seen measurements for - including my own measurements of my one - show a peak at 3-4 kHz. And it seems to be very consistent.
3. Sibilance generally is caused by accentuation in the recording between 5-8 kHz (but can occur higher). Generally its not manifested \in the 3-4 kHz range. So an HD600 won't accentuate sibilance. They actually dip at that frequency range. They can be grainy sometimes - but generally not sibilant.
4. I'd love to see you measure the frequency response with stock cable and with your new cable. I have NEVER seen a cable dramatically affect a frequency response to the amount you've just described.

What... yea I'm with you @Brooko, Periapt makes nice stuff but nothing special. Just OFC Copper. I would imagine it's possible if OP was switching to the balanced output on an balanced amp [vs the "convenient" singled ended connection]

Although @DavidA has an interesting viewpoint on why people sometimes hear new cables as "better" though I think he'd do a better job explaining his theory than I would

Still moving on, I'm happy to say I'm returning to the HD 600 club! Are there some basic simple mods I should start with? An if I may ask what are some cables people are liking with the HD 600?

As I'd like to just have a 4pin XLR ready one and get something with a bit more resolve/clarity VS stock

 

[volly]

What... yea I'm with you @Brooko, Periapt makes nice stuff but nothing special. Just OFC Copper. I would imagine it's possible if OP was switching to the balanced output on an balanced amp [vs the "convenient" singled ended connection]

Although @DavidA has an interesting viewpoint on why people sometimes hear new cables as "better" though I think he'd do a better job explaining his theory than I would

Still moving on, I'm happy to say I'm returning to the HD 600 club! Are there some basic simple mods I should start with? An if I may ask what are some cables people are liking with the HD 600?

As I'd like to just have a 4pin XLR ready one and get something with a bit more resolve/clarity VS stock

Fresh pads always a good thing!

I have both XLR and straight jack for various setups.

Some have tried the Dekoni fenestrated Sheepskin and have liked the after-effects.

600/650 are fairly Plug - N - Play nowadays! - Still gotta tube 'em up imho!

Welcome back @Mshenay!

 

[guitardave]

I just received a new pair of 600's yesterday and have to say I am super impressed. I have had 660s's, 800's, and 800s's previously, and did not care for them. These, I will keep in the collection. I can see why reviews usually point out their neutrality. That is what really stands out with these. Everything is perfectly balanced. I would not change a thing. I definitely understand why they have been in production for 2 decades!