Sennheiser GSX 1000 / 1200 Impressions

Discussion in 'Dedicated Source Components' started by shankly1985, Nov 5, 2016.
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  1. CooloutAC
    hahahah IF we talking computers, more like 1988.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  2. Glasofruix
    Where the effin' eff' do i contradict myself? Can't you freakin' read? I can't explain the difference between 3D audio and simple surround any clearer than that. The graphs show exactly how modern games work, meaning they don't have 3D audio in the first place. The vid shows how real 3D audio sounds and we've already established that you're partially deaf, so you can't hear HRTF anyway, on top of being (deliberately i hope) really obtuse. And for the umptieth time THERE IS NO POSITIONNAL AUDIO WITH JUST PLAIN STEREO, none, that's what the pictures show. Don't tell me you're also blind in one eye or something.
  3. CooloutAC
    Don't know if you are trolling me right now, or just that confused.

    How many times did I say the difference is top and bottom sounds? That is, according to people who define there being a difference. I think surround sounds are still "3d sound" if not using the full space they are using most of it. Especially with headphones. Do you even read my posts or just look for my name?

    Your graphs should be in 3d, according to the definitio you and that VR article have on "3d sound" lmao..... I think you are the one who needs more reading comprehension.

    Your two graphs could both be 3d sound, and are both the same thing, besides your line drawn down the middle of one. And this is because it doesn't matter. You showed me the difference between headphones and full speaker set, not 3d vs surround.... and you don't even realize you proved my point... /sigh

    Its not your fault, I'm learning more and more everyday most "experts" and articles and reviews online regarding these subjects, are full of dog coals. I don't claim to be an expert, but common sense is common sense and lies is lies. That's why I always have a hard time knowing who is trolling me or not.

    Full home entertainment speaker sets, can also reproduce top and bottom sounds. I gave you the example of my LG tv, with all the speakers behind screen, can even make me think sounds are behind me. Using headphones is no different.

    When it comes to the "TRUE" definition of 3d sound, even using a full 5.1/7/1 speaker set, IS Virtual. (unless we start hanging speakers above us in the ceiling and under us in the floor)

    The same effects to trick our minds can be created with any speaker setup. It doesn't matter for "Positional Audio" as long as speakers have good soundstage or acoustics, and the game developers design the effects> And 3d sound is in every game by default.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  4. Glasofruix
    Look, the "graphs" do NOT show 3d audio, they show surround as used in today's games and how it is downmixed, to illustrate my point about games NOT having "native" hrtf and/or 3D audio when you put your headphones on. I've been quite clear about that in the original post. The youtube video demonstrates how 3D audio sounds. And no, 3D audio does not mean just elevation, it means having more than 8 points in space where the sound can originate from. You not understanding the facts does not prove your "point", whatever that might be.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  5. CooloutAC
    If interested in the 3d tech in the LG tv. Its designed by Harmon/Kardon. Thats all I know about it. All I know is its described as immersive, and it sure is in a room with proper acoustics. Its 2 channels with surround effects, just like headphones, but directly in front of me.
  6. CooloutAC
    Ya I just said they didn't show 3d sound, according to your definition. So why even post that? to look smart? We already know this! haha Now I know for sure you don't even read my posts.

    But your definition is different then mine and most people buddy. Isn't 7.1 channels, 8 speakers? if a game developers design positional audio for 8 speaker channels where is the difference? 3d audio is in the effects.

    Do you think 3d sound is only for headphones? You would be wrong like most so called "experts".

    If you think there is a difference between 3d sound and surround... Its top and bottom sounds. Period. It has nothing do with your arbitrary number. Its to try to mimic how we hear in real life.

    Guess we are at an impass. Nothing to discuss anymore. This is a failed industry for a reason. The fact we are even having this conversation after 100s of years is crazy. :)

    Here is all I can find on the LG Harmon/Kardon tech. They calling it ultra surround. "ULTRA Surround technology adds a three-dimensional quality to audio that is nothing short of spell binding. "

    I leave the ultra surround option on. You instantly feel the surround effect. And i have a room with great acoustics which helps.

    Although, we now know there are two definitions of 3d sound. I definitely don't hear top and bottom sounds off the tv lol, even though they are calling it 3 dimensional. It still is because sounds like they are coming from more then 2 directions. I don't know where you got your magic number of 8 from.

    You know , not everything is public knowledge man. You can never trust a nosey person lol. Business is competitive. There is no defining tech and They just don't hand out whitesheets or give out true names of their tech. And just because you don't see some sort of HRTF option in the game, doesn't mean it doesn't have 3d sound and doesn't mean it doesn't have surround effects.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  7. mindbomb
    This is not so complicated. I think a game will likely have a 3d audio system internally, but use pcm audio outputs. It's possible in the future, games will start using dolby atmos or windows sonic for 3d audio output more. However, regardless of whether the game outputs an object based format or surround sound pcm, you still need an hrtf downmix to have good sound localization on headphones. That doesn't change.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  8. Glasofruix
    That's because they don't and made to illustrate, again, how modern games downmix surround to stereo, i suggest you stop being stupid and think a little.

    No "my definition" is correct, yours is a mish mash of misunderstanding and deliberate dumbassery. Yes it is 8 speakers, meaning 8 FIXED points in space where the sound can come from virtually AND physically, they cannot move around. And that, precisely, where the difference is. Having a sound coming from the left back speaker or from and exact position behind you is a big difference.

    You cannot achieve 3D sound with speakers, try listening to binaural recordings (let's say the virtual barber) with a pair of speakers, will not work.

    There is no "arbitrary number", again, having sound come from infinite sources in 3D space is different from having just 8 points in a circle around you.

    Citation needed. The reason we don't have 3d audio today is creative's and microsoft's fault. I'm old enough to remember the sound processing during the EAX days was VERY expensive CPU wise, now that we have enough processing power it's making a return.

    And what does LG have to do in this discussion? Bouncing sounds off walls is not a new idea, it uses the room's accoustics to achieve a surround effect. It requires a careful placement and doesn't really work in non square rooms. In fact dolby atmos (not talking about headphones here) uses just that for elevation by adding speakers that are oriented towards the ceiling.

    That is precisely why it doesn't have 3D sound. I've already explained how downmixing works, with pictures et all.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  9. CooloutAC
    Yes but HRTF is just one label. Dolby atmos isn't doing anything new or special either. My point is there is no defining tech.

    I said 3d audio has two definitions. I was wrong . It has 3! lol coincidence eh?

    1. It could mean sounds coming from more then two directions. (so left right front could be considered 3d sound, but not surround)

    2. It could mean Sounds with a surround effect meaning left right front back directions when using less speaker channels. (such as headphones or 2ch speakers)

    3. Or it could mean adding up and down sounds to the surround directions. Which is what apparently what some consider "TRUE" 3d sound...
  10. Glasofruix
    HRTF is PRECISELY the technique that allows us to have directionnal audio with plain headphones. I suggest you visit the wikipedia page. How different manufacturers implement it is up to them.
  11. x7007
    guys, instead of talking about 3d all this time, maybe better you try to find a fix for the surround reset?
  12. Glasofruix
    Nothing we can really do about that.
  13. pietcux
    Here you go, but it is in German language:

    upload_2017-12-30_19-47-53.png upload_2017-12-30_19-47-3.png
    upload_2017-12-30_19-49-51.png upload_2017-12-30_19-50-41.png
    upload_2017-12-30_19-51-24.png upload_2017-12-30_19-55-40.png
  14. pietcux
    The video is nice. Once the output is set to stereo, I can hear sound from above and below, when direct in fron to the soud source and the camera islooking up or down.
  15. mindbomb
    3d audio is a superset of 7.1 audio where you can have things like up and down (so all 3 dimensions are represented). An example is dolby atmos. Now if you want to listen to either format on headphones and have good sound localization, you're gonna need an hrtf downmix. An example is dolby atmos for headphones. The two things are similarly named, but they are distinct.

    In this thread, people are using the sennheiser gsx as an hrtf for 7.1 audio. If the game has 3d audio, it can scale down to 7.1 or you would have to get a new hrtf if you wanted the height channels.
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