[Glasofruix]

1. Yes i've tested that you dimwit, that's how audio in windows works. Yes sonic sets windows to stereo, and for the umptieth time you can have windows set to stereo AND still make an app output surround, you'll just have missing sounds. Game devs do diddly squat most of the time when it comes to positionnal audio (the frickin vid explains that, watch it and google "hrtf", "positionnal audio" and "binaural audio") because it's channel based not object based. The VSS just creates a virtual room with virtual speakers to mimic real 7.1 setup, pretty much EVERY vss today does that (barring some exceptions like overwatch and uncharted 4), the GSX too.

2. Uh so what EA's a big company, that has nothing to do with the fact that there's still no vss in bf or at least quite a poor one when it comes to 3D audio baked in overwatch, again, overwatch scores object based souns with ingame's atmos, bf1 does not.

In conclusion, i do not use sonic or atmos BECAUSE THEY DON'T FRIGGIN' WORK with todays games.

 

[raband]

Because its the same complaint I had about razer software, like many others.

ur a funny guy. I doubt that would be the case if its only the GSX that sounds like total crap to my ears. Even razer surround doesn't sound as muffled as the gsx imo.

You still haven't answered the question - could you have a hearing imbalance? one ear that hears worse than the other?

I'm honestly not tying to be a pain, it's a valid question with a simple yes/no answer.

To make it easier for you,

could you have a hearing imbalance?

 

[CooloutAC]

1. Yes i've tested that you dimwit, that's how audio in windows works. Yes sonic sets windows to stereo, and for the umptieth time you can have windows set to stereo AND still make an app output surround, you'll just have missing sounds. Game devs do diddly squat most of the time when it comes to positionnal audio (the frickin vid explains that, watch it and google "hrtf", "positionnal audio" and "binaural audio") because it's channel based not object based. The VSS just creates a virtual room with virtual speakers to mimic real 7.1 setup, pretty much EVERY vss today does that (barring some exceptions like overwatch and uncharted 4), the GSX too.

2. Uh so what EA's a big company, that has nothing to do with the fact that there's still no vss in bf or at least quite a poor one when it comes to 3D audio baked in overwatch, again, overwatch scores object based souns with ingame's atmos, bf1 does not.

In conclusion, i do not use sonic or atmos BECAUSE THEY DON'T FRIGGIN' WORK with todays games.

1. Great so now you agree.

2. There is vss in bf. Its awesome. Or there is something going on with my soundcard. But there is defninitely a huge difference switching bf1 to 7.1 vs stereo. Same thing goes for netflix app even when windows is set to stereo. I have a gaming mobo with sonic studio 3 and realtek onboard. Dice even made footsteps louder so you don't have to blow out your eardrums or hack the game files like in cs:go.

In conclusion, I was friggin right as usual.

 

[CooloutAC]

You still haven't answered the question - could you have a hearing imbalance? one ear that hears worse than the other?

I'm honestly not tying to be a pain, it's a valid question with a simple yes/no answer.

To make it easier for you,

could you have a hearing imbalance?

Yes so keep telling yourself everyone who says atmos for headphones, razer software, or GSX , is muddied, muffled or boomy, has a hearing imbalance. Which is most of the population and why this technology has still never took off. It doesn't impress anyone and feels like a downgrade in quality. And this is an audiophile forum?

Just to reiterate the GSX is not different from any other VSS solution. Using your computers own built in solutions and the games own settings might be a better experience for those preferring clarity and positional audio over immersiveness. And Unlike clarity and positional audio, immersiveness is very subjective.

IMO, all these VSS solutions are all gimmicks. The Microcenter guy was right.

 

[raband]

..

 

[Glasofruix]

No we do not agree, sonic and atmos still need 7.1 to work with, which means if you manage to output surround with one enabled you'll get virtual surround, if you do not have them enabled your physical setup will only output 2 channels out of 8. That's how VSS works and been working since forever. As for overwatch the first comment in your reddit link explains how crap works.

 

[CooloutAC]

No we do not agree, sonic and atmos still need 7.1 to work with, which means if you manage to output surround with one enabled you'll get virtual surround, if you do not have them enabled your physical setup will only output 2 channels out of 8. That's how VSS works and been working since forever. As for overwatch the first comment in your reddit link explains how **** works.

you just agreed that it sets windows to stereo. Now you are contradicting yourself.

And yes thats why I linked that thread. To explain to you that it works off stereo, not 7.1. Read it again?

And you just admitted you don't use either technologies. yet you are still here debating their merits. You must be infatuated with me.

You are confusing direct channel surround with virtual surround for headphones. When it comes to the latter it doesn't matter if something is set to stereo or surround, in game or in windows, its all about the effects you hear from your headphones and mind, created by the game developers. Again, Unless you are using headphones with mutliple speakers, and direct channel settings, its all virtual, and its all mind tricks.

And I wouldn't bother with surround headphones, because then you get the opposite of muddied and they end up sounding too tinny. I think we might have to separate surround audio from positional audio definitions. I keep doing the same thing.

 

[Glasofruix]

I am not, just because sonic sets widows to stere does not invalidate my other points.

Can you not read? It explains how atmos in overwatch works while also explaining how it's different from the typical vss... Here's the relevant part:

So what if you had an old-school 5.1 mix (which is 6 individual files) and wanted to fake this kind of thing in stereo headphones? Well, you could say, "this is supposed to be the rear left speaker, so I will apply THIS EQ and volume to it, and pan it 80% to the left, 20% to the right." and so on, and just leave them there.

Again, watch the vid.

You are right i do not use atmos or sonic, mainly because i've spent a month trsting both extensively and came to the coclusion that they do not work with modern games.

 

[CooloutAC]

I am not, just because sonic sets widows to stere does not invalidate my other points.

Can you not read? It explains how atmos in overwatch works while also explaining how it's different from the typical vss... Here's the relevant part:


Again, watch the vid.

You are right i do not use atmos or sonic, mainly because i've spent a month trsting both extensively and came to the coclusion that they do not work with modern games.

The guy in the first comment says they don't use direct channel mapping. Thats not so much diff from other solutions. But it is the difference between virtual and true surround. meaning number of channels. And it is the main difference between the GSX. The GSX actually stands out here, cause its one I know of uses 5.1 from windows.

I'm not sure if my onboard does this, since it sounds to tinny for me to try and see if the surround is better. I think the stereo up or down mixing w/e you want to call it from windows stereo to virtual surround, is better simply because I can use my onboard with it to get a higher clarity. But also so it sounds fuller, it will be more on the muddied side then tinny, but muddy is better then tinny for me, Especially for immersiveness, but not for positional. these are the two diff surround sound definitions.

But it is basically like mushing more sounds into same space so it will sound a little muffled. whether its muddy or tinny, it will be muffled. its something you have to get used to.

I don't use them, because I prefer my onboard built in solutions. My previous board I used thx trustudio, and on this new board I'm using sonic studio. just with presets, using games built in solutions.

But even just the games thmselves with no enhancements, is better then any of these 3rd solutions imo.


You also forget that for over a decade man, maybe 20 years now, there have been many built in 3d sound solutions in games. Thats why guys out there and pro fps gamers say just use stereo. Cause game developers are still using technologies to "fake" surround. And they are named diff things, also you will see named in that thread many diff technologies, you just never knew the name of.

You say BF3 is not doing anything. But its definitely doing something to my (imbalanced) ears, haha. There is probably a technology in their engine that has just not been marketed like dolby atmos. Which I also think is a waste of a money.

Maybe in future games will develop more for it. It does sound like something built for developers to create game effects from scratch> But like I siad, THIS IS NOTHING NEW> been around in many diff names for 20 years. Probably Microsoft has a hand in it too.

 

[raband]

Do you have a hearing imbalance?

Yes so keep telling yourself everyone who says atmos for headphones, razer software, or GSX , is muddied, muffled or boomy, has a hearing imbalance.

BINGO

We have our answer

THIS is the reason the GSX (and other VSS DSP's) is not, and never will work for you as intended.

Case closed.

 

[Glasofruix]

And it is the main difference between the GSX. The GSX actually stands out here, cause its one I know of uses 5.1 from windows.

GSX, cmss-3D, dolby headphones, asus' sonic studio, creative's SBX and BXAE, razer surround, all do that. The difference is that the GSX does is better with minimal quality loss.

 

[CooloutAC]

GSX, cmss-3D, dolby headphones, asus' sonic studio, creative's SBX and BXAE, razer surround, all do that. The difference is that the GSX does is better with minimal quality loss.

I tried hard to like it man, couldn't justify it. It had more quality loss for me. maybe for 50 dollars and only for games like fallout 4 and wither 3 for more immersiveness or if i ever actually have a surround sourced movie. Since MS and realtek removed the ability with my onboard in windows 10 and don't give a hoot.

But FPS games seem to have good built in solutions already. When it comes to positional sound. Once I found out I can turn on surround in my headphones without the gsx with the same clarity as usual? And I'm feeling guilty like its a cheat? ANd its doing things way better as advertised like sound blasters pro mode setting promises lol ( hearing enemies from further away) .... GSX then becomes $250 dollars for a talking piece.

THe sennheisers game zeros and game ones soundstage are what gave me surround in bf1.

All sonic studio does for me is improve the clarity.

 

[Glasofruix]

Most games don't have inbuilt HRTF, that's where all those solutions come in. The thing is, they're calibrated using averages. Average ears, average head size etc.. Doesn't work on everyone the same way.

 

[CooloutAC]

Most games don't have inbuilt HRTF, that's where all those solutions come in. The thing is, they're calibrated using averages. Average ears, average head size etc.. Doesn't work on everyone the same way.

I just explained they all have for the past 20 years. all fps games anyways. called all diff names over the years. Probably other genres too.

And I'm not buying the thing that some people hear sounds diff ways or that half the population has an imbalance like the above poster is pretending to believe. But I do understand its all subjective and based on tastes.

and I have had the taste of listening to stereo music upmixed to surround channel speakers for almost 20 years now. And i have been an fps gamer all of the internets live and watched that genres sound evolution. EA DICE is on another level. Best sound in a game to date with or without the gsx.

As I said the only thing the gsx does for me is add immersiveness to rpg games like fallout and witcher which only have direct channel mapping it seems.

 

[raband]

But fps games seem to have good built in solutions already.

You'll be talking about games with good audio engines, design and implementation, not any sort of inbuilt, hidden VSS solution.

You're getting good soundstage, imaging, separation and audio cues with them, but it's still unprocessed stereo.

In BF4, "Loud speakers" setting which you enjoy is just the game sound with greater dynamic range and less compression than the other speaker settings.

Try "Headphones" setting - has even higher dynamic range and even less compression (either are still plain old stereo, no processing), just that "headphones" offers the highest quality of sound from the game (not sure on the new Logitech Headphone setting, may be higher again)