[warrenpchi]

Glad to be awesome twice!  

 

[wink]

I'd be happy to be awesome once.....        

 

[johnjen]

   
I think Odin was pointing out that live music sounds natural. I don't think what you heard live at a concert vs what he heard is really affecting the the point he's trying to get across. As someone who can't stand any Delta Sigma DACs, his point was spot on. I can agree with what you both of you said though, I've been to a concert where it sounded terrible. Though even though it sounded terrible, it didn't sound like a "incisive, somewhat bright, ultra-detailed sound". To my sensitive ears it seems like audio systems are compensating for people being slightly deaf in certain frequencies (I don't mean this comment to be rude, I just don't know a simpler way to put it). Surprisingly I never got into music until a little over a year ago, so my ears haven't burned in or whatever you want to call it. What I hear is terribly sharp and bright, while someone else who's been jamming to music with headphones for the last 10 years hears something beautiful.

My 2¢ for what it's worth (and to whom)…

 
Having been on a couple of sides of this, I can simply say that, we are listening to our 'Playback' systems, which are distinctly different than what happens live.
 
I mean are you up on stage with your ears 1'-2' (or less) away from the cymbols or the mouth of a saxophone or trumpet?
Not to mention a piano or drum set.
 
All at the same time?
 
Yes listening to musical instruments from this short of distance, after passing thru lots and lots of circuitry, can be harsh.
 
It can sometimes take much effort and time to determine and eliminate the sources of harshness,
where you can.
 
But live PA/reinforcement audio systems are no where near as resolving as most of the decent playback systems we use.  For a variety of reasons…
But then the 'goal' or purpose of these commercial PA/reinforcement audio systems is very different than what we expect out of our playback systems as well.
 
And we have in one sense, an 'advantage', in that we can repeat, exactly, a specific performance, as many times as we like.  And we can make changes to the audio system to address it's 'short comings' and play back the same exact musical performance and determine if the harshness (and other undesireable sonic attributes) have changed, and if so is it 'better'?
 
It is probably our one most helpful 'advantage'.
Unfortunately it is the gateway to excessive spending to ameliorate the harshness etc.

 
 
But we who are already beyond help have learned how to justify just about anything so that's why we have support groups such as these forums…

 
JJ

 

[O8h7w]

I advice you all to put some good live recordings through your systems. My favourite ones at the moment are Europe - Almost Unplugged, and The Civil Wars - Live At Eddie's Attic.
 
I listen to live performances with a pair of musician's earplugs, attenuating things with 15 dB. This makes it possible for me not to have my fingers in my ears even on the really loud sets. And what I hear live - on a good set, whether amplified or not - is *very* similar to what I hear at home, from a good live recording. And it is great. Great musicality, great pleasure. This makes me think our systems are indeed really good.
 
On normal studio recordings though, I agree with what has been said, they are very often harsh. Either studio engineers have lost more high frequency hearing than most of us, or the studio monitoring systems have some sort of near-universal flaw, or the recordings are engineered to be that way just to stick out when you hear them on the radio in the background of a mall... or something else I didn't think of. Anyway, I think the problem is with the recordings - a detailed headphone rig just happens to highlight it.

 

[swspiers]

  I understand wanting my equipment to sound as good as "real" but the goal/argument of "audio at home isn't great until it sounds the same as LIVE" doesn't fit for me.Why? Because live events frequently don't represent the voices or instruments very well to begin with. They say musical recordings have been in  "loudness wars" for years. So have live concerts! Live concerts are most often too LOUD and can be poorly mixed (at least for where I"m sitting or standing or dancing). Cranking it until the walls vibrate and the ears bleed degrades sound more than improves sound. What's more, my ears hear differently at a live event. The sensory immersion of smells, sites, physical contact, etc. at a live event all impact the auditory experience (especially compared to sitting on the couch at home). How can listening at home ever really compare?

+1000
 
Compression use at concerts is usually, literally, a brick wall.  Maybe not so much jazz and  classical, but for rock/pop/country it certainly is.

 

[john57]

Compression is used at loud amplified concerts and the treble gain is a bit reduced relativity to the bass. Many of my old classical CD's did not have the dynamic brightness that I usually would hear in a live unamplified concert at a good hall. One time ago I hear a playback of a concert being recorded right after the concert and I was a bit surprised how good it sounded as compare from where I was sitting during the concert.  What that tells me alot of the quality, the details, the openness, the dynamic brightness is gone by the time the CD is commercially made. It seems to me that since the generation today listen to music at a louder level than before. No wonder that the treble can become harsh. Sometimes I get the feeling the more sub bass the better from the comments here on Head-Fi. More users seems to preferred darker sounding headphones from neutral these days.  I like modern DSD music files not just because they are DSD but because they are usually better engineered. It takes different skills and experience to made a good recording on location than can be in a studio.  

 

[magnum703]

Thank you guys for all the info! I just ordered the Lyr2 with the 2 sets of tubes and the uber bifrost!

 

[TubemanRQ]

Hi everyone!
 
 
This is my first post, but I had to let you all know my impressions of the multibti Gungnir. I have lived with 4 Gungnir DACS in my system for over 5 months. I also have 4 WYRDs and 2 Modi2 Ubers.  I have a fully active two-channel loudspeaker system, all custom DIY made by me for my enjoyment only. I don't work in the audio industry, thsi is my hobby.
 
That being said, I just plugged my new multibit Gungnir into my system after about 10 minutes of being powered on and listening to a few familiar tracks. I used the new multibit Gungnir for the tweeters, and let me tell you, it was AMAZING!! The noise floor is WAY lower, there is much more ambient detail retrieval and cues that are being heard embedded within the source material. This also aids in imaging and soundstaging, BIG PLUS! What got me more than anything, was that it made my regular delta-sigma Gungnir sound hard and etched in the high frequencies. The new multibit sounds relaxed, yet still detailed, and still REAL and transparent. BRAVO Schiit, BRAVO!!! more to come, I'll keep y'all posted.
 
Cheers!
 
-TRQ

 

[Mediahound]

  Hi everyone!
 
 
This is my first post, but I had to let you all know my impressions of the multibti Gungnir. I have lived with 4 Gungnir DACS in my system for over 5 months. I also have 4 WYRDs and 2 Modi2 Ubers.  I have a fully active two-channel loudspeaker system, all custom DIY made by me for my enjoyment only. I don't work in the audio industry, thsi is my hobby.
 
That being said, I just plugged my new multibit Gungnir into my system after about 10 minutes of being powered on and listening to a few familiar tracks. I used the new multibit Gungnir for the tweeters, and let me tell you, it was AMAZING!! The noise floor is WAY lower, there is much more ambient detail retrieval and cues that are being heard embedded within the source material. This also aids in imaging and soundstaging, BIG PLUS! What got me more than anything, was that it made my regular delta-sigma Gungnir sound hard and etched in the high frequencies. The new multibit sounds relaxed, yet still detailed, and still REAL and transparent. BRAVO Schiit, BRAVO!!! more to come, I'll keep y'all posted.
 
Cheers!
 
-Randy

 
I'm almost afraid to ask but how in the world do you use 4 Gungnirs in the same system?

 

[MattTCG]

   
I'm almost afraid to ask but how in the world do you use 4 Gungnirs in the same system?

 
+1

 

[Argo Duck]

Be afraid. Be very very afraid. The answer may prove injurious to your wallet

 

[enkidu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mediahound /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
I'm almost afraid to ask but how in the world do you use 4 Gungnirs in the same system?

I'm guessing that he's using a digital crossover to output lo and hi digital signals. Then  hi->DAC -> amp -> tweeter and lo->DAC -> amp -> woofer for each channel. Properly tuned, can be a killer two channel system. But a lot of work to get it right, a lot.

 

[TubemanRQ]

Yes, I am using a MiniDSP nano Digi 2X8, and from there feed the tweeter, mid-hi, midrange, and low frequency drivers, which also get their all their own amps, Cown K2's, my modified Behringer, and a modified chip amp for the super sensitive 97db efficient planar magnetics I use from 500Hz to 900 Hz.
 
Yes, it is a LOT of work to tune it and get all the drivers working together, get the phasing right, and tweak all the crossover points, AND address individual driver resonances and notch them out. I'm really impressed with the MiniDSP stuff. Before that I was using a Behringer DCX 2496, two of them, but the bummer was having to listen to the mid-fi output stages of the Behringer DCX2496. I will say, though, that going fully active sounded better than my over $600 + passive crossover parts used in a two way system I had.
 
Man, I just wanna listen to music and chill, but gotta go to work, I'll keep you all posted! 
 
-TRQ

 

[RCBinTN]

I don't know about y'all, but I want to hear more from Randy the TubemanRQ!!

 

[aamefford]

I'd be happy to be awesome once.....         :wink_face:

I'm not as awesome as I once was, but I'm as awesome once as I ever was.


I'll go ahead and leave now, sorry…