[zoophaugus]

I do enjoy the unison USB on my Yggy LIM. HOwever, I also have the yggy fed via AES by a Hermes DDC and the ddc w/ aes is wayyyyy more cleaner and grander sounding than the USB. The aes sounds more refined in every frequency. I know the hermes ddc helps a lot but the usb just cant keep up. But the unison usb is lightyears better than standard usb implementation in other dacs.

Seems as though the Hermes is doing a fine job of cleaning up the USB signal and converting it to Spdif (AES) for your yggy. I too had the same experience when I used a Matrix X Spdif-2 in between my computer and the yggy. The Pi2AES had a slight advantage over the the X Spdif2 and I used that afterwards and omitted the computer and have never looked back. Fast forward to today and the Lumin has pushed out the Pi2AES when it comes to AES.
Please note I do still keep the Pi2AES for my second system.
I did try to use the Matrix X Spdif-2 between the Lumin's USB out and ygg's AES. The matrix was no competition to that of the U1 Mini's onboard AES/EBU output. That experiment lasted all of ten minutes and the matrix has now been sold.

I do how ever suspect that the Lumin has an optimized USB output far superior to that of a standard computer. Im just unsure of the new Unison usb for the yggy which I would need to upgrade in order to satisfy my curiosity.

Which is why I am looking for feedback here.

 

[earnmyturns]

Is it actually clearer and better or more of just a flavor in sound change when compared to the AES/EBU input?

In my experience, Pi2AES AES, even with the default SMPS, but even more with a Sbooster LPS, is clearer, more incisive, than Unison USB from a decent source, Allo USBridge with Sbooster LPS.

 

[zoophaugus]

As a few posters in this thread have previously noted…

AOIP (Audio Over IP) while it can be a bit more tedious (read a bit fussy and can be expensive) is so far ahead of any other means of getting those digits and bits out of the player and into the dac, that I stopped getting the USB upgrades altogether.

It uses ethernet to exit the computer, and then into a decoder that converts it to AES, then into the Jggy.
It is a commercial low latency means of sending digital bit streams from here to there, and in terms of SQ nothing I have heard beats it.
And to such a degree that I have quit chasing any alternatives.
Although it is definitely NOT plug-n-pray, as it requires setting up a separate dedicated ethernet protocol, meant exclusively for audio bit streams, it isn't rocket science either.

In the computer, AOIP uses a virtual output port so any player that can pick which output port to use, will 'see' the special ethernet protocol and thus it bypasses all other audio ports.

In my Mac Pro I have dedicated one of my 2 built in ethernet ports as the exclusive AOIP feed for my audio stream.

So for those with a technical bent and some computer savy, AOIP is a contendah indeed.

JJ

This makes complete sense given the fact that most people say music served from a computer or NAS drive to a streamer via ethernet always sounds best. Even I prefer my own music streamed through my local network via ethernet to the lumin over Tidal.
The only thing that beats it is an optical ethernet connection which is dead silent as it picks up and carries no noise what so ever.

 

[johnjen]

I agree that using optical isolation between my Mac and the Focusrite RedNet3 does help fully isolate the computer system noise from the digital audio stream and can also 'break' any ground loop potential as well.

But then that is heading off into the extreme end of an AOIP setup chain.
This tweak (among several others) can contribute to the "(… can be expensive)" part, which can all to easily raise it's head.

JJ

 

[PieterV]

In regard to using AES/EBU compared to USB, my 2 cents worth.
Yggdrassil has been in my system since January 2018. Updated to Version 2 a couple of years ago and Unison USB in 2021. Source is Roon core running on NUC8i7BEH into Auralic Aries Femto into Yggdrassil.
After installing Unison I tried USB from the Aries using a basic audio grade cable I had and felt that AES was still marginally better but if I connected the DAC directly to the Roon core using USB it was no contest. That was not great at all. Flat, dead.
Until recently!
I had the opportunity to hear an AudioQuest Diamond USB cable in the system and, wow! But only so long as I include the Aries. I had been looking at upgrading the Streamer but with my new (5 days) AudioQuest Diamond breaking in, that itch is definitely scratched. (Well, in the meantime )
My takeaway from all this, and in my system is:
1. Unison USB is very good and is the best input for Yggdrassil.
2. Isolating your source from the DAC by using a separate Streamer or isolation/reclocking device is really important.
3. Cables matter.

I hope this helps and of course, YMMV and all the usual disclaimers.

Ps
I also had the opportunity recently to live with an Aqua Acoustics Formula DAC for a week as well as their LinQ Streamer. Total cost in Australia $30,000 +. Several good ears agreed that while Yggdrassil might not have quite as wide a soundstage, it was hard to hear any difference. Yggdrassil's capacity to deliver music is wonderful. The Aries held its end up pretty well too.

 

[buson160man]

Well it is has been 9 days since I first played signal through the Og .It is sounding pretty awesome at his point. I had read of the sound being a little digital after full break in some peoples set ups. At this point I am hearing little if any digitis. It is wonderfully musical. I have a Sonnet Morpheus as well. The Og is handily besting it at this point. The Morpheus is pretty musical but the Og is much more vivid sounding with better bottom end while being just about as musical sounding. I had thought of trading the Morpheus in for their new Pasithea but the Og sounds so awesome I have decided to stand pat .

 

[zoophaugus]

In my experience, Pi2AES AES, even with the default SMPS, but even more with a Sbooster LPS, is clearer, more incisive, than Unison USB from a decent source, Allo USBridge with Sbooster LPS.

In regard to using AES/EBU compared to USB, my 2 cents worth.
Yggdrassil has been in my system since January 2018. Updated to Version 2 a couple of years ago and Unison USB in 2021. Source is Roon core running on NUC8i7BEH into Auralic Aries Femto into Yggdrassil.
After installing Unison I tried USB from the Aries using a basic audio grade cable I had and felt that AES was still marginally better but if I connected the DAC directly to the Roon core using USB it was no contest. That was not great at all. Flat, dead.
Until recently!
I had the opportunity to hear an AudioQuest Diamond USB cable in the system and, wow! But only so long as I include the Aries. I had been looking at upgrading the Streamer but with my new (5 days) AudioQuest Diamond breaking in, that itch is definitely scratched. (Well, in the meantime )
My takeaway from all this, and in my system is:
1. Unison USB is very good and is the best input for Yggdrassil.
2. Isolating your source from the DAC by using a separate Streamer or isolation/reclocking device is really important.
3. Cables matter.

I hope this helps and of course, YMMV and all the usual disclaimers.

Ps
I also had the opportunity recently to live with an Aqua Acoustics Formula DAC for a week as well as their LinQ Streamer. Total cost in Australia $30,000 +. Several good ears agreed that while Yggdrassil might not have quite as wide a soundstage, it was hard to hear any difference. Yggdrassil's capacity to deliver music is wonderful. The Aries held its end up pretty well too.

Interesting responses from all.
I also had PM conversation with another headfi member who also said USB is superior when using a better cable.
But what if we try an even better AES/EBU cable ? Would that even the playing field perhaps? I'm not sure if the AES cable was of equal value and quality to the Usb cables that sounded "better".
I my self am using a custom made AES cable worth a few hundred bucks.

I also found this response interesting which I am copying from another thread in audiogon.

"
we are server and streamer specialists

we have found most major dacs to sound signifigantly better via usb

we are a lumin dealer - as well it is the dacs input implimentationas to which input sounds best.

Dave and Troy

Audio intellect. nj"

So in order to satisfy my curiosity not only would I need to perform the Unison upgrade but also a good chunk of coin has to go towards the Usb cable...

Oh you gotta love this hobby LOL

 

[471724]

In regard to using AES/EBU compared to USB, my 2 cents worth.
Yggdrassil has been in my system since January 2018. Updated to Version 2 a couple of years ago and Unison USB in 2021. Source is Roon core running on NUC8i7BEH into Auralic Aries Femto into Yggdrassil.
After installing Unison I tried USB from the Aries using a basic audio grade cable I had and felt that AES was still marginally better but if I connected the DAC directly to the Roon core using USB it was no contest. That was not great at all. Flat, dead.
Until recently!
I had the opportunity to hear an AudioQuest Diamond USB cable in the system and, wow! But only so long as I include the Aries. I had been looking at upgrading the Streamer but with my new (5 days) AudioQuest Diamond breaking in, that itch is definitely scratched. (Well, in the meantime )
My takeaway from all this, and in my system is:
1. Unison USB is very good and is the best input for Yggdrassil.
2. Isolating your source from the DAC by using a separate Streamer or isolation/reclocking device is really important.
3. Cables matter.

I hope this helps and of course, YMMV and all the usual disclaimers.

Ps
I also had the opportunity recently to live with an Aqua Acoustics Formula DAC for a week as well as their LinQ Streamer. Total cost in Australia $30,000 +. Several good ears agreed that while Yggdrassil might not have quite as wide a soundstage, it was hard to hear any difference. Yggdrassil's capacity to deliver music is wonderful. The Aries held its end up pretty well too.

Thanks for the information. I've not yet tried a digital to digital converter and AES/EBU or SPDIF with my Yggy with Unison upgrade, but I can vouch for the difference the USB cable makes. I'm using only a mediocre source at present, a Galaxy S4 tablet running the UAPP high-end android USB app, and the USB cable direct from the S4 to the Yggy, but I am getting really excellent sound with one particular ultimate high-end USB cable, the Shunyata Omega. This is after trying numerous designs including the Audioquest Diamond, which I found to be very good but notably inferior to the Omega, the Cardas High Speed Bus dual-conduit cable, and the Sablon Audio Panatela Reserva. Unfortunately most of the sub-$1000 cables couldn't cut it at all sonically.

I am considering getting a Denafrips digital-to-digital converter, either the Hermes or the Iris. Has anyone tried either of these with the Yggy with Unison installed?

 

[shafat777]

Thanks for the information. I've not yet tried a digital to digital converter and AES/EBU or SPDIF with my Yggy with Unison upgrade, but I can vouch for the difference the USB cable makes. I'm using only a mediocre source at present, a Galaxy S4 tablet running the UAPP high-end android USB app, and the USB cable direct from the S4 to the Yggy, but I am getting really excellent sound with one particular ultimate high-end USB cable, the Shunyata Omega. This is after trying numerous designs including the Audioquest Diamond, which I found to be very good but notably inferior to the Omega, the Cardas High Speed Bus dual-conduit cable, and the Sablon Audio Panatela Reserva. Unfortunately most of the sub-$1000 cables couldn't cut it at all sonically.

I am considering getting a Denafrips digital-to-digital converter, either the Hermes or the Iris. Has anyone tried either of these with the Yggy with Unison installed?

I do. I have my yggy hooked up to my Hermes ddc and the end result is drastic. Ddc with yggy is miles ahead of the unison USB

 

[Mike-WI]

I do. I have my yggy hooked up to my Hermes ddc and the end result is drastic. Ddc with yggy is miles ahead of the unison USB

Interesting.
I am about to upgrade my Yggdrasil to Unison USB.

The Hermes DDC (Digital to Digital Converter) is nearly the price of the Yggdrasil DAC ($2199-$2599, https://www.schiit.com/products/yggdrasil), so it would not be surprising if it was better at DDC.

https://www.denafrips.com/ddc

Iris DDC - $749
Hermes - $1749 - https://www.denafrips.com/hermes
Gaia DDC - $2449

 

[xTrIpX]

FWIW, the pi2aes measured lower jitter than the Hermes DDC according to this video from GoldenSound. If I were going to use AES, I would use the pi2aes. I've read @earnmyturns statement that the pi2aes via AES sounded better than the Allo USBridge via USB. But i'm really curious to know how the opinion would change when using the USBridge Signiture or the IFI Zen Stream and using a high-quality USB-cable.

 

[shafat777]

Interesting.
I am about to upgrade my Yggdrasil to Unison USB.

The Hermes DDC (Digital to Digital Converter) is nearly the price of the Yggdrasil DAC ($2199-$2599, https://www.schiit.com/products/yggdrasil), so it would not be surprising if it was better at DDC.

https://www.denafrips.com/ddc

Iris DDC - $749
Hermes - $1749 - https://www.denafrips.com/hermes
Gaia DDC - $2449

Well i bought my Yggy for 2599 and the Hermes DDC for 1200 back when they were cheaper. I can honestly say that the DDC is well worth the money. I am running both of my dacs using the DDC and still have room for two more dacs

 

[Mike-WI]

Well i bought my Yggy for 2599 and the Hermes DDC for 1200 back when they were cheaper. I can honestly say that the DDC is well worth the money. I am running both of my dacs using the DDC and still have room for two more dacs

Sounds interesting. You got me interested enough to look them up.

 

[shafat777]

@Mike-WI

Just to make sure that I am not suggesting the DDC is a must have for the YGGY. I believe unison usb from a clean source should sound identical or atleast close to AES or I2S. My usb source is my gaming pc, which is notorious for hum and static, so the ddc basically cleans the signals a bit and sends it to the YGGY. Thats why it might appear to sound better, its just cleaner and crisper with the DDC.

Peeps over here swear by Pi2AES with LPS. The Iris is not a bad pick either, it lacks I2S but the AES should be perfect for the YGGY.

 

[JoeWhip]

I recently upgraded my older MacBook to a MacBook Pro with the M1 chip, with more RAM feeding my LIM. Frankly I am shocked at how much better the DAC sounds fed by the new MacBook. Can’t imagine how this system could sound any better.