[earnmyturns]

Interesting responses from all.
I also had PM conversation with another headfi member who also said USB is superior when using a better cable.
But what if we try an even better AES/EBU cable ? Would that even the playing field perhaps? I'm not sure if the AES cable was of equal value and quality to the Usb cables that sounded "better".
I my self am using a custom made AES cable worth a few hundred bucks.

I also found this response interesting which I am copying from another thread in audiogon.

"
we are server and streamer specialists

we have found most major dacs to sound signifigantly better via usb

we are a lumin dealer - as well it is the dacs input implimentationas to which input sounds best.

Dave and Troy

Audio intellect. nj"

So in order to satisfy my curiosity not only would I need to perform the Unison upgrade but also a good chunk of coin has to go towards the Usb cable...

Oh you gotta love this hobby LOL

There's so much wrong in the "advice" you got... I've seen detailed measurements of USB cables and their impact on DACs. TL; DR Schiit's humble Pyst cables are as good or better than the fancy stuff. As for USB vs other sources, a Lumin dealer would say that, wouldn't they?

 

[earnmyturns]

FWIW, the pi2aes measured lower jitter than the Hermes DDC according to this video from GoldenSound. If I were going to use AES, I would use the pi2aes. I've read @earnmyturns statement that the pi2aes via AES sounded better than the Allo USBridge via USB. But i'm really curious to know how the opinion would change when using the USBridge Signiture or the IFI Zen Stream and using a high-quality USB-cable.

As I wrote elsewhere: a Schiit Pyst USB cable is as good as you need, according to detailed measurements by an industry pro. Claims of magic via USB cable are pure woo given what's going on in a USB audio connection. Speaking as someone who has for random reasons had some of those "magic" USB cables around.

 

[gefski]

Dante Ethernet file delivery also appears to me to be completely cable unaffected. As someone who had a few years of abuse from built in usb, outboard usb boxes, and magic usb cables, everything changed with my 2016 divorce. Now, like @johnjen stated earlier, I have no interest in exploring other file delivery options.

That said, I do think Unison is very good (unlike Schiit‘s previous lifeless {for me} usb interfaces), and very convenient.

 

[johnjen]

Another possible 'tweak' is to raise the base standard music CD Sample Rate (SR) to 88.2KHz or 96KHz due to the 44.1KHz SR not conforming really very well to the expected AES/SPDIF wave form shape 'envelope'.

I learned this from AtomicBob and his research dealing with actual captured wave form shapes as they exist in the AES stream.
It seems like the 44.1 SR is just a bit to slow for really well shaped data stream wave forms.

And in many cases it should be relatively easy to double your CD's SR in your player and listen for yourself to determine if there is an auditory SQ improvement, or not.

JJ

 

[471724]

Interesting.
I am about to upgrade my Yggdrasil to Unison USB.

The Hermes DDC (Digital to Digital Converter) is nearly the price of the Yggdrasil DAC ($2199-$2599, https://www.schiit.com/products/yggdrasil), so it would not be surprising if it was better at DDC.

https://www.denafrips.com/ddc

Iris DDC - $749
Hermes - $1749 - https://www.denafrips.com/hermes
Gaia DDC - $2449

Note that these prices are Singapore Dollars (S$) not US Dollars. For instance, the Hermes is $1291 US dollars

 

[zoophaugus]

There's so much wrong in the "advice" you got... I've seen detailed measurements of USB cables and their impact on DACs. TL; DR Schiit's humble Pyst cables are as good or better than the fancy stuff. As for USB vs other sources, a Lumin dealer would say that, wouldn't they?

People can say or advise what ever they want. I am capable of making my own informed decisions and I can tell you now that I am not rushing out to spend $$$ on the unison upgrade nor a high priced Usb cable.
The Lumin dealer has more listening experience than I do in regards to high end streamers and DAC combo's. I doubt they are fabricating stories as there is nothing to gain from their end, unless they think I am going to buy one of there overpriced high end Dac's, LOL. To be fair they said it would be Dac and input dependent meaning they are not all the same.
Like I said I was just looking for some constructive feed back from different people.
I think its safe to say that if your running computer based audio a DDC is a must have for the yggy.
When I first got my Matrix X spdif-2 and moved on from usb to AES on the yggy it was a jaw dropping or eye opening experience.
I can say for certain with my own ears a Matrix X Spdif DDC (used with Lumin's Usb out) was no contest to that of the onboard DDC (AES/EBU) out of the lumin.
I can also say for certain that the Lumin AES out betters the AES out of the Pi2AES as I still own the PI2AES.
The Pi2 is a formidable streamer and for the money is a no brainer.

But we cant ignore the fact that "some" people are saying they prefer the sound Usb to that of AES either.

Some food for thought

 

[W3WEB]

The discussion about various connection methods to a yggy has led me to a question: What streamers are good here?

I'm currently using a Sonos connect that uses a coax connection to the dac. Sonos allows me to leverage a Synology NAS which contains my ripped cd library (mostly lossless FLAC files). While I like the sonos, and have a few speakers for whole house sound; wondering if upgrading to something better would improve my headphone system. Thoughts please!

 

[sp33ls]

The discussion about various connection methods to a yggy has led me to a question: What streamers are good here?

I'm currently using a Sonos connect that uses a coax connection to the dac. Sonos allows me to leverage a Synology NAS which contains my ripped cd library (mostly lossless FLAC files). While I like the sonos, and have a few speakers for whole house sound; wondering if upgrading to something better would improve my headphone system. Thoughts please!

I personally don't notice huge improvements from streamers. That being said, the Pi2AES is all anyone should ever really need from an engineering perspective.

 

[bigjako]

I am not (yet) an Yggy owner, but I'm planning to sell off my D90 and BF2 and consolidate to the Yggy. I don't love the BF2 with my estats, nor my D90 with my dynamics. I just got an Allo USBridge Signature and have really loved that so far, but it's USB only and I think I'd like to get the Allo DigiOne HAT or a Pi2AES at some point so I can test non-USB inputs properly. I may find I really do need 2 DACs, and if so, then having a HAT on my USBridge will let me run SPDIF and USB.

But if I were to buy the DigiOne, maybe I'm better off getting a Pi2AES instead.

To be fair, both my estat amps are tube-based, so the BF2 sort of doubles up on that.

 

[sp33ls]

Pi2AES runs all of its digital outputs simultaneously (if you'd like to run multiple DACs for example). Allo makes good stuff (I have a Katana DAC), but I personally like the Pi2AES more. Only downside is that there isn't a USB out, but, I don't see why you'd really need it given the plethora of other options.

I run my Yggy off AES, and have also run the BF2 with optical from it. I can't imagine I'm missing anything in the music with it.

 

[bigjako]

Awesome, thanks. How do you find the difference between the BF2 vs the Yggy? Different flavors, or is the Yggy just better all around?

I'd like to consolidate to one DAC, but test out others, like the Soekris 2541. I really do find that electrostatics react better to detail-rich DACs, which is why I paired them with the D90 (on tube amps) and I figure I might as well just advance to the Yggy now rather than dancing around different $1k DACs for a while. With the Allo USBridge, I kind of need to only use one DAC, even with a nice in/out switch (I use the Little Bear), and for whatever reason, I can't use multiple DACs through it (I've tried 3 different USB hubs/switches to no avail).

 

[sp33ls]

What genres of music do you prefer? Given you're a big estat fan, I'm guessing classical, jazz, instrumentals, vocals?

If so, I think the Yggy LiM is an awesome option for you. It's very natural and "analog", but not to the extent and "liquid" as the 2541 from what I've read. However, it more than makes up for it with timbre, blackground, dynamics, staging, and texture. Everything just sounds "correct."

I honestly don't have a desired to consider other DACs now.

The only area I think it could do better for some is with the immediate "wow" factor. The OG and probably even the BF2 would do better with exciting genres like EDM & rock with a bit more gusto and treble excitement.

If those are the girl you take to show your buddies at a party, instead, the LiM is the one you take to show your parents and start a family with because she continues to impress you and improve with age.

 

[ardbeg1975]

Awesome, thanks. How do you find the difference between the BF2 vs the Yggy? Different flavors, or is the Yggy just better all around?

I'd like to consolidate to one DAC, but test out others, like the Soekris 2541. I really do find that electrostatics react better to detail-rich DACs, which is why I paired them with the D90 (on tube amps) and I figure I might as well just advance to the Yggy now rather than dancing around different $1k DACs for a while. With the Allo USBridge, I kind of need to only use one DAC, even with a nice in/out switch (I use the Little Bear), and for whatever reason, I can't use multiple DACs through it (I've tried 3 different USB hubs/switches to no avail).

I just swapped out a BF2 for a Yggy LIM. The LIM is still settling in but my initial impressions are the LIM is much more detailed, the soundstage is deeper and wider, and the vocals are maybe one or two steps farther back in an imaginary concert settling. The BF2 sounds “thicker” but the LIM is still not lean by any means (also A/Bing the LIM with a Qutest). Very pleased by the upgrade as the BF2 was sometimes “too much” when paired with a tube amp.

 

[tjdub]

What genres of music do you prefer? Given you're a big estat fan, I'm guessing classical, jazz, instrumentals, vocals?

If so, I think the Yggy LiM is an awesome option for you. It's very natural and "analog", but not to the extent and "liquid" as the 2541 from what I've read. However, it more than makes up for it with timbre, blackground, dynamics, staging, and texture. Everything just sounds "correct."

I honestly don't have a desired to consider other DACs now.

The only area I think it could do better for some is with the immediate "wow" factor. The OG and probably even the BF2 would do better with exciting genres like EDM & rock with a bit more gusto and treble excitement.

If those are the girl you take to show your buddies at a party, instead, the LiM is the one you take to show your parents and start a family with because she continues to impress you and improve with age.

Lol, you're last analogy is right on the money

 

[tjdub]

I demoed the 2541 and 1541 for a bit and they are very good dacs in their own right but to me they lacked the resolution of Yggy, they reminded me a lot of Aries and pontus from denafrips