[money4me247]

I have had my Dt 880's for about a year, got them used from Amazon, open box sale. The DT 880's are a great headphone, I use it in my second listening station. That way I can watch my mother, and listen to great jams. I mostly use my lyr2 to drive these cans. I almost snagged a T1 at a estate sale, because the dt 880 880's sound so good.

there is some really good t1 sales right now in f/s forums. was going to snipe one, but realized how little money i have atm

 

[StanD]

   
I did not notice that you had those headphones. When did you get them? UPS will deliver the same ones to me in a few hours. I will use my Fulla to drive them. According to this link, the combo can reach 109 dB. That's dangerously loud. I am skeptical about the whole "an amp needs to handle 120 dB dynamic peaks without clipping" thing. How often do we actually hear 120 dB dynamic peaks with normal listening levels? Since even the most dynamic music only has about 30 dB of dynamic range, and the majority of dynamic music probably doesn't exceed 15 dB of dynamic range, and ideal/average/normal listening levels are only 60-80 dB, 90-110 dB should be all we ever need. According to the numbers, even one of the hardest-to-drive headphones, the HiFiMAN HE-6, only needs 447 mW at 50 ohms to reach 110 dB. The Abyss AB-1266 only needs 316 mW. With most headphones, that number is much closer to zero. The 660 ohm DT 880 only needs 25 mW at 660 ohms. (The number is the same at 600 ohms.) With the Sennheiser HD 800, it's 21 mW. With the newer Audeze LCD-3, it's 6 mW. And so on. In other words, in terms of sheer output power and realistic listening levels, just about any amp has more than enough power to drive all but the least sensitive headphones.

Although much of contemporary music is heavily compressed (dynamically) I would hope that it is not as bad as 15 dB of DR. Wnen clipping occurs on peaks you should be able to hear the transient distortion You don't need to listen to a sustained level of 109 dB or higher, just need to reach it cleanly on peaks. I've heard this distortion when trying to use my HE-500's on amps without enough power. In the case of the HE-500's 1W seems to be plenty enough, my smartphone or iPod touch can't always handle it though my Asgard 2 or Magni can do it without any sweat.
The HE-6 requires 1.4W to get to 115 dBSPL and 4.47W to get to 120 dBSPL. It is not linear so the 447mW at 110 dBSPL figure you gave can be misleading.

 

[Viktor S]

I extended my desk, so now my Schiit's can have their own space. 

 

[hodgjy]

   
I did not notice that you had those headphones. When did you get them? UPS will deliver the same ones to me in a few hours. I will use my Fulla to drive them. According to this link, the combo can reach 109 dB. That's dangerously loud. I am skeptical about the whole "an amp needs to handle 120 dB dynamic peaks without clipping" thing. How often do we actually hear 120 dB dynamic peaks with normal listening levels? Since even the most dynamic music only has about 30 dB of dynamic range, and the majority of dynamic music probably doesn't exceed 15 dB of dynamic range, and ideal/average/normal listening levels are only 60-80 dB, 90-110 dB should be all we ever need. According to the numbers, even one of the hardest-to-drive headphones, the HiFiMAN HE-6, only needs 447 mW at 50 ohms to reach 110 dB. The Abyss AB-1266 only needs 316 mW. With most headphones, that number is much closer to zero. The 660 ohm DT 880 only needs 25 mW at 660 ohms. (The number is the same at 600 ohms.) With the Sennheiser HD 800, it's 21 mW. With the newer Audeze LCD-3, it's 6 mW. And so on. In other words, in terms of sheer output power and realistic listening levels, just about any amp has more than enough power to drive all but the least sensitive headphones.

Correct.  Most headphones only need a full mW.  I took an SPL meter to my LCD 2.2F the other day, and I found out my preferred listening was around 75 db.  That's not much power at all.  That's nominally less than 1 mW.

 

[StanD]

  Correct.  Most headphones only need a full mW.  I took an SPL meter to my LCD 2.2F the other day, and I found out my preferred listening was around 75 db.  That's not much power at all.  That's nominally less than 1 mW.

Since the power to dBSPL relationship is not linear the power required for peaks is much more. In my case my preferred listening level at least 10 dBSPL higher I'll need much more juice for peaks. My HE500's would require about 0.4 mW to hit 95dbSPL and 1W to hit 119 dBSPL for peaks which is more than enough. I have an Asgard 2 than can sustain 1W, which is more than good enough. I don't know why some folks insist that these cans need more than 2 Watts to sound good????

 

[Netrum]

I have now owned my Asgard 2 and Modi for almost 2 years.
And i have never regretted the purchase!
But i am looking into upgrading to Modi 2 Über.
And perhaps a Lyr 2

 

[hodgjy]

  Since the power to dBSPL relationship is not linear the power required for peaks is much more. In my case my preferred listening level at least 10 dBSPL higher I'll need much more juice for peaks. My HE500's would require about 0.4 mW to hit 95dbSPL and 1W to hit 119 dBSPL for peaks which is more than enough. I have an Asgard 2 than can sustain 1W, which is more than good enough. I don't know why some folks insist that these cans need more than 2 Watts to sound good????

Agree.  That's why I pointed out nominally less than 1 mW.  My amp can crank 2800 mW, so I have no worries. 

 

[RickB]

I have now owned my Asgard 2 and Modi for almost 2 years.
And i have never regretted the purchase!
But i am looking into upgrading to Modi 2 Über.
And perhaps a Lyr 2

 
To me the Modi 2U sounds better than the Modi, but it's an extremely subtle thing and may be confirmation bias.

 

[StanD]

  Agree.  That's why I pointed out nominally less than 1 mW.  My amp can crank 2800 mW, so I have no worries. 

I'd say that the bottom of the Schiit pile Magni 2 has enough power for almost any headphone that most people own. Perhaps if someone has an inefficient 600 Ohm can the Magni might not be the preferred Amp. I begin to wonder if the Magni 2 is sufficient to run a pair og HE-6's for someone that listens at lower volumes. I'm too lazy to do the math right now. OK, I succumbed to curiosity, the Magni 2 can kick out about 113.5 dBSPL and the Uber about 114.3 dbSPL for the HE-6s. That's better than I thought. This is for peaks that many listeners might never reach.

 

[Tuco1965]

My Magni powers my 600 Ohm Sextetts quite well.  

 

[StanD]

  My Magni powers my 600 Ohm Sextetts quite well.  

Do you know what the sensitivity of those cans are?

 

[Nic Rhodes]

0.5w in HE6 has been a disaster in my experience, this headphone needs much more than that to sing correctly. The best I ever heard it was on the end of 200w Bryston monobocks!. With proper power (5w+, cheap Lyrs or more expensive other amps) then and only then do you see the quality of this model coming through. Great amps like the Bryston headphone amp just could not power this so I think the numbers here are too low. All IMHO.

 

[Tuco1965]

  Do you know what the sensitivity of those cans are?

 
"The K240 is NOT for use with your iPhone. With approaching 1 Vrms needed to drive these 600 Ohm headphones to 90dBSPL you'll need a proper amp to deliver enough voltage for a solid listening level." From Tyll's write up on innerfidelity. 

 

[StanD]

  0.5w in HE6 has been a disaster in my experience, this headphone needs much more than that to sing correctly. The best I ever heard it was on the end of 200w Bryston monobocks!. With proper power (5w+, cheap Lyrs or more expensive other amps) then and only then do you see the quality of this model coming through. Great amps like the Bryston headphone amp just could not power this so I think the numbers here are too low. All IMHO.

How many watts does that amp deliver at 50 Ohms and how much peak wattage will that deliver? Is it necessary to burn the ears off of one's head?
At what nominal dBSPL level do you listen at?
The Lyr 2 can deliver a sustained 119.5 dBSPL to HE-6s. That's plenty enough for peaks. The Lyr 2 can deliver this power without compromises.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Although much of contemporary music is heavily compressed (dynamically) I would hope that it is not as bad as 15 dB of DR. Wnen clipping occurs on peaks you should be able to hear the transient distortion You don't need to listen to a sustained level of 109 dB or higher, just need to reach it cleanly on peaks. I've heard this distortion when trying to use my HE-500's on amps without enough power. In the case of the HE-500's 1W seems to be plenty enough, my smartphone or iPod touch can't always handle it though my Asgard 2 or Magni can do it without any sweat.
The HE-6 requires 1.4W to get to 115 dBSPL and 4.47W to get to 120 dBSPL. It is not linear so the 447mW at 110 dBSPL figure you gave can be misleading.

 
My point was, how loud are the dynamic peaks going to actually be?
 
Here are some general guidelines for the dynamic range of music:
 

1. Highly Compressed Pop: –6 dB to –9 dB
2. Well Recorded Pop: –9 dB to –12 dB
3. Well Recorded Acoustic/Jazz: –12 dB to –18 dB
4. Wide Dynamic Range Classical: –18 dB to –30 dB

 
So you would just add that much on top of your normal listening level. If the peaks do not exceed 110 dB, then a more powerful amp may not be necessary.
 
Here are the requirements for the HE-6. It is calculated the same way as any other headphone.
90 dB: 4 mW
100 dB: 45 mW
110 dB: 447 mW
115 dB: 1,413 mW
120 dB: 4,467 mW
 
And for the HE-500:
90 dB: 1 mW
100 dB: 13 mW
110 dB: 126 mW
115 dB: 398 mW
120 dB: 1,259 mW
 

  Correct.  Most headphones only need a full mW.  I took an SPL meter to my LCD 2.2F the other day, and I found out my preferred listening was around 75 db.  That's not much power at all.  That's nominally less than 1 mW.

 
At a 75 dB normal listening level, using the maximum dynamic range of 30 dB (with the peak being at 105 dB), even the HE-6 would only require 141 mW at 50 ohms. (And less than 1 mW to handle just the 75 dB.)