[crixnet]

  In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with someone trying to help one make the best choice possible, and even sell the person after helping them find what they are looking for. I find good sales people very helpful.
 
And I think Schiit could benefit from a move in this direction. Not that they need to hire a big sales team and drive up the costs, but a subtle move in that direction would be useful in my opinion.
 
In my case, a whole slew of events transpired that could easily have angered me. And I appealed to Jason for help. He immediately connected me with Alex who resolved my problem within about 15 minutes. So overall, Schiit is responsive. Had my initial impression been more favorable before all the problems happened, I would have been even more impressed. It is hard to fix a so-so first impression.
 
And personally I like Nick. He ultimately came around and helped me. However, let me say this... the amount I spent in total was considerable for me. At least that is how I felt then. Now, I'm ready to spend more - like I just got my new LCD-X today. I want to get a better amp and DAC. And that first impression left lots to be desired.
 
What I wanted from Schiit was a bonding experience. A feel good moment. Just someone to tell me I was not crazy and be supportive. I didn't get that. And while it can be argued all day that it isn't necessary, by the number of voices raised here saying something similar - I think it would in fact be helpful. 
 
That first contact and sale leaves a lasting impression. I'd have to rate mine as a 5 on a scale from 1 - 10. Not terrible, but not the bonding moment I would have liked to have had. 
 
I will probably buy more from Schiit. The Ragnarok/Yggy is in my sights. But I wish I had had a better first experience. And I like the Schiit I bought. But there is definitely a feeling that I wish was considerably better. I had read all of Jason's book and felt a definite bonding with him. That's where it stopped.
 
If a company came along with equal quality and gave me more of a sense of support and belonging, I would probably buy from them instead. 
 
If I sound torn, I am. I do love my Schiit. But the customer experience I had left a whole lot to be desired.
 
Just saying it like it is. 

 
I definitely hear you as my experiences were largely similar.
 
That said, I imagine that Nick is on the receiving end of a s#itload of queries, and that a large number of them can be maddening to some extent. I do give the guy the benefit of the doubt. I don't know for sure, but I suspect he's likely an engineer, and I've worked with quite a few engineers in the past. Largely, they're good people, but just as often, they're also more geared to deal with technical issues than they are with human ones.
 
These are strictly generalizations, but they hold true in my experience with engineers. It's the whole Spock-vs-Kirk thing. One values facts and figures the most; one prioritizes the human experience.
 
Schiit is at its core a tech company. However, they do sell their products directly to the public. As such, even though they never seek to excel in salesmanship, per se, they would be better served by better serving pre-sales questions with patience and kindness. Those two virtues never hurt any human transaction.

 

[Baldr]

Ok, so I feel a need to step from my "chairman of the board” position to comment thus:
 
Once upon a time, there were audio stores as an intermediary between users and manufacturers. This was at its height when a 3 minute phone call from New York to LA cost $30.00 in today's dollars. There was no other cheap way to communicate over a long distance. Manufacturers at that time did not as a rule have anyone designated to deal with the public, other than a clerical type who could refer them to the closest dealer.
 
It was the dealer's job to form the necessary relationship with the user to inspire the user's confidence to commit to buy something. In addition, those relationships might overflow into one more proper to a hobbyist. In other words, the dealer needed to expend much time with each user. This was economically feasible because the dealer doubled the price and the user was willing to pay. This is significant overhead.  Let me repeat that - significant.
 
Today we have local meets to help fill in the “hobbyist” overhead. The local dealer is a dying breed as communication costs drop and it is possible easily to shop over a world sized territory. As dealers decrease in number the sales burden falls to the manufacturer, proper in a high-end arena with median prices steeply rising.
 
As I have said before, the only reason for the existence of marketing is to sell products nobody wants. The higher the retail prices rise in high end audio, the more the need for marketing. Marketeers want to make you feel good, and will usually tell you anything they think you want to hear.
 
Now Nick, God Bless him is the only person we could find who is willing to monitor email as close as possible to 24-7 as possible. His purpose is to acknowledge incoming mail and point the sender in a direction. How many of you have sent an email with only crickets as a response? We sure as hell aren't perfect but at least we can do that.
 
I have a Denon Headphone which is scratchy in the right channel. I have sent over ten emails to ten different address. Nothing. I bought 'em used but am probably screw*d any way. No such problem at Schiit.
 
Anybody ever try to reach Microsoft?? I use the BSD operating system. I have sent them 3 queries – two of the answers were one word. RTFM. All three emails were answered. Why do I put up with this? Because BSD is the best OS there is for a file server with the best license there is – period.
 
We ain't perfect – yes, we could try to find an email steward willing to write more effusive email responses. If we do, it will increase our costs. We do get that many emails. If anyone is offended by Nick's terse nature, please understand it is not our intention to offend – to the contrary, we are grateful to have all of you as clients. it is just not yet been revealed to us how to never offend anyone, ever.
 

 

[StanD]

All I say is try to do better and take it a little more seriously.

 

[SuperU]

   
I definitely hear you as my experiences were largely similar.
 
That said, I imagine that Nick is on the receiving end of a s#itload of queries, and that a large number of them can be maddening to some extent. I do give the guy the benefit of the doubt. I don't know for sure, but I suspect he's likely an engineer, and I've worked with quite a few engineers in the past. Largely, they're good people, but just as often, they're also more geared to deal with technical issues than they are with human ones.
 
These are strictly generalizations, but they hold true in my experience with engineers. It's the whole Spock-vs-Kirk thing. One values facts and figures the most; one prioritizes the human experience.
 
Schiit is at its core a tech company. However, they do sell their products directly to the public. As such, even though they never seek to excel in salesmanship, per se, they would be better served by better serving pre-sales questions with patience and kindness. Those two virtues never hurt any human transaction.

I agree.
 
Like I said, I like Nick. 
 
I do not see this as a referendum on Nick. But I do see it as one on Schiit. 
 
If they are listening, they will hear exactly what you said - and others - and me. 
 
Personally I like Spock, and I like Kirk. Mr. Nimoy's passing was hard for me to hear. 
 
When I spend money, I want to feel special. And I'm not just looking for patience and kindness. Nick was patient. And he was not unkind. I'm looking for that bond... that sense of feeling appreciated. It starts pre-sale and carries through to after it's all said and done - or to repairs if needed.
 
I'm also a business owner. And we have a very different way of treating our customers. Not that what we do is right for everyone, much less Schiit but some movement in that direction would be welcomed on my end - and ultimately I can only speak for me.
 
It pains me to write some of this. I do love what I bought. Am listening to my Asgard 2/Uberfrost with my new LCD-X and it sounds great. So, please separate my thoughts of the equipment from my thoughts on how I feel about the purchasing experience. 

 

[crixnet]

  All I say is try to do better and take it a little more seriously.

What Stan said.
 
Schiit makes great products, no doubt. The company also eschews marketing. Fine. But good business relations are essential to any business. That's just a plain fact.
 
Comparing anything as being better than the dealing with Microsoft is a copout. Also, having one poor guy shouldering a mountain of queries is a fool's errand: something is sure to break/fall through the cracks.
 
A better sales experience will yield more sales. And that added profit revenue can more than make up for the expense of paying one or more customer support reps who have more time, training and patience. In short, the customer experience would be improved by far, and that would be a solid win-win.

 

[raybone0566]

Ok, so I feel a need to step from my :chairman of the board” position to comment thus:


 


Once upon a time, there were audio stores as an intermediary between users and manufacturers. This was at its height when a 3 minute phone call from New York to LA cost $30.00 in today's dollars. There was no other cheap way to communicate over a long distance. Manufacturers at that time did not as a rule have anyone designated to deal with the public, other than a clerical type who could refer them to the closest dealer.


 


It was the dealer's job to form the necessary relationship with the user to inspire the user's confidence to commit to buy something. In addition, those relationships might overflow into one more proper to a hobbyist. In other words, the dealer needed to expend much time with each user. This was economically feasible because the dealer doubled the price and the user was willing to pay. This is significant overhead.  Let me repeat that - significant.


 


Today we have local meets to help fill in the “hobbyist” overhead. The local dealer is a dying breed as communication costs drop and it is possible easily to shop over a world sized territory. As dealers decrease in number the sales burden falls to the manufacturer, proper in a high-end arena with median prices steeply rising.


 


As I have said before, the only reason for the existence of marketing is to sell products nobody wants. The higher the retail prices rise in high end audio, the more the need for marketing. Marketeers want to make you feel good, and will usually tell you anything they think you want to hear.


 


Now Nick, God Bless him is the only person we could find who is willing to monitor email as close as possible to 24-7 as possible. His purpose is to acknowledge incoming mail and point the sender in a direction. How many of you have sent an email with only crickets as a response? We sure as hell aren't perfect but at least we can do that.


 


I have a Denon Headphone which is scratchy in the right channel. I have sent over ten emails to ten different address. Nothing. I bought 'em used but am probably screw*d any way. No such problem at Schiit.


 


Anybody ever try to reach Microsoft?? I use the BSD operating system. I have sent them 3 queries – two of the answers were one word. RTFM. All three emails were answered. Why do I put up with this? Because BSD is the best OS there is for a file server with the best license there is – period.


 


We ain't perfect – yes, we could try to find an email steward willing to write more effusive email responses. If we do, it will increase our costs. We do get that many emails. If anyone is offended by Nick's terse nature, please understand it is not our intention to offend – to the contrary, we are grateful to have all of you as clients. it is just not yet been revealed to us how to never offend anyone, ever.


 

I had the same experience with said companies you have mentioned here. I can't imagine how many e-mails schiit probably gets. Me personally, don't need to have my hand held, or be told everything's going to be alright. I ciontacted nick & he got back to me within an hour. I got what I needed, made my purchase and am very satisfied. Just my two cents.

 

[TinearedOne]

Well, I'm new to the forum and new to buying Schiit products, having just bought a Sys and a set of Pyst cables, but I've been digesting an awful lot of posts about the company and its products, and have shot off a couple of queries, both of which Nick responded to promptly and succinctly.  Two of my questions were, quite frankly, stupid.  He responded.  The response was clear.  The response answered my question(s).  He's clearly not cutting and pasting pat responses into e-mails.  ...and he responded almost immediately.
 
I haven't had a problem with any of our interactions, and will continue to ask questions until I buy my headphone amp/preamp, DAC, and/or likely phono preamp - and I expect direct answers.  So far, that's what I'm getting.
 
I like Schiit.  I think it's pretty telling that Jason Stoddard et al are willing to spend Saturday answering posts on this board.

 

[crixnet]

I had the same experience with said companies you have mentioned here. I can't imagine how many e-mails schiit probably gets. Me personally, don't need to have my hand held, or be told everything's going to be alright. I ciontacted nick & he got back to me within an hour. I got what I needed, made my purchase and am very satisfied. Just my two cents.

One person's hand-holding is another person's attempt to gather essential information. Everyone has different needs and experiences. And how a small business deals with disparate needs often determines the extent of its success. 

 

[BeatsWork]

 
One person's hand-holding is another person's attempt to gather essential information. Everyone has different needs and experiences. And how a small business deals with disparate needs often determines the extent of its success. 

I've said it before - if you are looking for your accessories and customer service in a velvet lined bag you can find that, at much higher prices, but you are not Schiit's target market. They are targeting those who want the best at a given price point which is what they deliver. Call it "no frills" if you like. I'm perfectly happy with a $750 amp which goes toe to toe with amps costing twice that much and curt (prompt!) responses. I would take Schiit's fast and direct replies over the polite cut and paste responses from any number of vendors where the responder has clearly either made no effort to understand the problem or more likely is Tier 1 support with only a knowledge base and rudimentary experience to resolve issues.

 

[StanD]

 
I've said it before - if you are looking for your accessories and customer service in a velvet lined bag you can find that, at much higher prices, but you are not Schiit's target market. They are targeting those who want the best at a given price point which is what they deliver. Call it "no frills" if you like. I'm perfectly happy with a $750 amp which goes toe to toe with amps costing twice that much and curt (prompt!) responses. I would take Schiit's fast and direct replies over the polite cut and paste responses from any number of vendors where the responder has clearly either made no effort to understand the problem or more likely is Tier 1 support with only a knowledge base and rudimentary experience to resolve issues.

We're not looking for fancy microprocessor controlled power switches on front or wood cases made from wood from the tree of life. We are looking for a good value and great audio performance which Schiit delivers on. None of the expensive feature jests that I just made nor other companies lack of proper support does not mean that Schiit cannot do a better job of customer service. How they deal with it is up to Schiit.

 

[BeatsWork]

  Checking in here with my Modi 2 Uber and Asgard 2 driving Mad Dog Pro's....
 
I love them! But, something is missing compared to loudspeakers...

I am not "recommending" anything here but you may be interested in looking at "Out of Your Head" software. There's a whole thread on it in Computer forum. Pricey but it comes closest to replicating speaker experience of anything I've played with - there are numerous free vst plugins - search Dolby wrapper, binaural, crossfade - but never found anything which I kept long term.

 

[rovopio]

For somebody who monitors e-mail as close to 24-7 as possible, in my experience, Nick sure was patient with me.
 
Nick answered my seriously trivial, and i'd even say dumb, questions without condescension, and not telling me to google them, even though i could and should've just google'd them.
I'm not saying what the questions are due to the highly trivial nature of said questions. So, He sure has enough Patience to deal with that 24-7 a day. I very most likely won't.
 
- - - - -
In terms of being treated specially, i get that. In fact, being in Asia i completely understand that. Where i live, the market for headphones are small, veryv= very small, and people live with only $200 a month. So when you spend $450 for a N headphone, the N dealer will treat you like you're a God. And 2.5 months later, when your N headphone has a problem, you will get stonewalled, ignored, stonewalled again, outright being refused service, and then you have to raised your voice and be angry just so they know you mean business, and then, and only then, you will get your rights as a customer, as in warranty claim. Oh by the way, at the end of said warranty claim, you found out at home that you were being blatantly lied to, to your face.
 
That's not just the dealer though, the Asia Pacific branch in extension was in on it.
 
Another example, i just paid $630 on february 6th for a Hifiman headphone. Since the dealer has to order them directly from Hifiman Principal, i had to wait 23 days. I get attention every 2 days from said dealer, not to mention some extra bonus stuffs when the hifiman headphone was finally delivered. Well, i didn't know Hifiman has production variation for their headphones before i bought them. I got a headphone that has KILLER clamp force. I'm talking clamp force as in, the headphone is trying to kill me, figuratively. I'm not talking low comfort level, i'm talking legitimate pain. Headache, nausea, and worse, i'm seeing spots before my eyes sort-of-pain. That kind of clamp force is not humanly safe, i think.
 
I ask for an exchange the second day i received them. The dealer told me straight, that the clamp force is normal. Alright well, i contact Hifiman Official thread in head-fi with my problems, saying can you check my headphone? i can't return it to my dealer even when there's a manufacturing defect because there's no implemented regulations and laws specifying exchange, returns and buyers protection. The response i got was 

hey buddy, are you easy to go to your dealer? You can go there and try another headphones. I have never heard this kind of issue. Almost all customer feel comfortable of Hifiman headphones.

I can't blame my dealer as it's common practice to not received buyers protection, but as you can see, team Hifiman customer service did not even read my original message properly. And after that reply, i haven't received any more reply for them. It's been exactly 72 hours and counting. I'm not expecting Team Hifiman to reply by now.
 
I mean sure I completely understand certain expectations that comes from shelling money for luxury items. Not the same but, I also always feel good after shelling out $400 or more, ($400 is already considered a lot here). I'm either treated like a celebrity, or, in some case, like i'm the center of the universe. It's somewhat hyperbole but really, Asia is where it's at if you want to buy things and feeling very good afterwards. A few of the stores will figuratively kneel before your feet to get a sale from you.
 
My understanding of Schiit is about high value per dollar spent, and two, affordable pricing. So of course, some corners will be cut. For Schiit, that corner is not hiring an expert of public relations, be it a veteran salesperson, or an articulate e-mail center operator.
 
But here's the thing though, the more expensive things are, the more any dealer for any products will likely accomodate you isn't it? I mean... it's not wrong for you guys to hope, Schiit's reply in general is indeed short. But is it really possible, logistically, for a company that aims at being the best in efficiency and delivering the best value per dollar spent, to then hire a two or three more people, just for ensuring communications?
 
Look at Hifiman, they have a meet soon on he-1000. Lots praised them for delivering affordable planar magnetics that actually sounds good. They have dealers worldwide. They sponsored head-fi and have customer service team official thread in head-fi. Even then, what did i get? A reply that was clearly did not read my original message, 3 days of no follow-up, and a schiit clamp force headphone.
 
Another example is Fiio. They are the almost the opposite of Schiit in customer care. I got very nice replies out of e-mails, and their Head-fi staffs replies private messages. Their Fiio E17K where i live, is $200 bucks. Not that it's bad or anything, but Modi 2 + Magni 2 is also 200 bucks. (well, $240 with cables)
 
Lastly, I infer from what Baldr said, Nick is singlehandedly doing a job of one and a half people, at least. If he checks e-mails 12-15 hours a day, they need 1.5 or 2 people if they don't use Nick. Average employees will not check e-mails 12-15 hours a day. If Schiit decides to employs two or three people for customer relations expert, the cost of their salary will be passed to the buyers. Or, it will cost the same, but production cost has to decrease.
 
To close my post and avoid misunderstanding (partially due to my non-native level writing skill), I'm not saying you guys expectations are bad, not at all. Constructive suggestions are alright. It's just that, Like Baldr said, either there's significant cost increase, or in my personal experience, there will be lesser value per dollar spent, or the one i hate most, decrease in level of after sales service experience. If your amplifiers have problems, others reported that Schiit normally took care of it as best they could.  Come on... everybody here wants that don't you?
 
In my opinion it's hard to have the cake and eat it too. Great value per dollar spent and extreme efficiency doesn't go hand in hand with shopping experience.
At least that's what I think.
 
If Schiit's current complaints are "put switches in the front" and "e-mail answers are extremely short". That are nice problems to have.
 
Again, look at my Hifiman current experience.
Also, Audeze is not that much better. Where I live, people only get 1 year Audeze warranty. If their LCD-3 Audeze failed after 1 year, what then?
On the contrary, 5-years worldwide warranty is a long time for a Schiit products to break and being taken care of. The shipping cost to Asia alone, if my Schiit ever breaks, is more than made up for any short answers Schiit Team are giving in a daily basis.
 
i'm merely offering another POV here... I hope nobody is personally offended with what i said, and i apologize in advance if you are, and let's agree to disagree.

 

[BeatsWork]

  We're not looking for fancy microprocessor controlled power switches on front or wood cases made from wood from the tree of life. We are looking for a good value and great audio performance which Schiit delivers on. None of the expensive feature jests that I just made nor other companies lack of proper support does not mean that Schiit cannot do a better job of customer service. How they deal with it is up to Schiit.

 I understand where you're coming from but I guess I disagree on the direction this implies. Sure they can hire more people but that adds cost, period. I've asked very technical questions and received an extremely quick if terse response. That makes me happy. I can see where others would find it off-putting.

 

[crixnet]

 
 I understand where you're coming from but I guess I disagree on the direction this implies. Sure they can hire more people but that adds cost, period. I've asked very technical questions and received an extremely quick if terse response. That makes me happy. I can see where others would find it off-putting.

This is a moot point, anymore. The fact is that we each like what we like. Where we all agree is that we appreciate the quality of Schiit gear.
 
After that, it's a learning curve and an expectations shift for anyone who wants/needs/expects more than the marginal pre-sales customer support Schiit currently offers. That's the bottom line.
 
The customer service ball is in their court. 

 

[Mr Rick]

 
This is a moot point, anymore. The fact is that we each like what we like. Where we all agree is that we appreciate the quality of Schiit gear.
 
After that, it's a learning curve and an expectations shift for anyone who wants/needs/expects more than the marginal pre-sales customer support Schiit currently offers. That's the bottom line.
 
The customer service ball is in their court. 

Just keep in mind that what you consider "marginal " is perfectly acceptable to many.