[reddog]

^ Whilst I don't have a position on this off-topic mods versus cable discussion - and as a pianist I can agree the HD800 sounds natural and neutral with a lot of material I've tried - we cannot ignore that everyone hears differently.

Thus it's not an issue of whether David is trustworthy, experienced and knowledgeable. For the record, he \strikes me as all of these things. The issue is that he is one listener representing one data-point. Obviously there are those - you rb2013, possibly me as well - who provide supporting data-points to his personal findings. Equally obviously, others hear and find differently - together with supporting measurements no less!

It's important to acknowledge not only the wide variance in how we hear and decode but also the great range of knowledge and expertise contributed by a large number of members here, not least of them being professional acoustic engineers such as Arnaud!

Well said sir, each of our impressions are a unique data point. And everyone has a unique opinion/ data point on headphones they hear. To me one should look at the variance of data points, to get a better empirical view of any give headphone.

 

[tuxbass]

  Sorry for the silly question, but is it possible to connect Gumby to Mjo2 using balanced and then Mjo2 to my main hifi power amp using single ended, or does it need to be either balanced or single ended all the way along the chain?

It works just fine.
Since I didn't want to keep my MJ2 on all the time, I introduced SYS into the chain and it perfectly solves my problem(s)
 
Now I can switch between these two configurations:
 
DacMagic Plus > SYS > A5  (Unbalanced)
DacMagic Plus > MJ2 > SYS > A5  (with the volume pot on the SYS maxed out)
 
Also solves my other problem of not having to switch off the speakers when I connect my headphones to MJ2. I just (mute) turn down the volume on SYS.

 

[rb2013]

^ Whilst I don't have a position on this off-topic mods versus cable discussion - and as a pianist I can agree the HD800 sounds natural and neutral with a lot of material I've tried - we cannot ignore that everyone hears differently.

Thus it's not an issue of whether David is trustworthy, experienced and knowledgeable. For the record, he \strikes me as all of these things. The issue is that he is one listener representing one data-point. Obviously there are those - you rb2013, possibly me as well - who provide supporting data-points to his personal findings. Equally obviously, others hear and find differently - together with supporting measurements no less!

It's important to acknowledge not only the wide variance in how we hear and decode but also the great range of knowledge and expertise contributed by a large number of members here, not least of them being professional acoustic engineers such as Arnaud!

Well I agree with your statement on the HD800's.  Sennheiser is a very deep pocketed firm with an excellent engineering staff - they produce freq charts with each pair (not many other HP companies do).  If their HPs could be improved in such a glaring way with simple and cheap addition of padding - I think they would.  But in any event if the mod works for some folks - awesome.
 
This whole discussion on freq measures of a transducer - reminds me of the IM and THD battles between Pioneer, Sansui, Kenwood, etc.. back in the '70s.  Then came class A tube amps with 10x more distortion - that people loved to listen to more.  And the CD is 'perfect sound' of the 80s - but then vinyl came back in a huge way - despite it's awful s/n ratios, wow and flutter, etc...Engineers will be engineers - bless them!  
 
Different strokes for different folks - if numbers on a paper is what's important - then all the power to you.

 

[JK-47]

How about reterminating the stock HD800 cable with a $5 Gold plated Neutrik 4 pin XLR...

 

[rb2013]

How about reterminating the stock HD800 cable with a $5 Gold plated Neutrik 4 pin XLR...

That'll work.

 

[rb2013]

Another choice and one I'm seriously debating vs the Moon balanced - Stephan Audio Arts Endorphin balanced.  I might get both and keep the SAA if the balanced are better then the Moons by a significant measure.  I have heard the SAA SE on my HD800's, but have not lived with them for a long period of time.  They added even more air and transparency to the HD800's.  But they are rich - and to me not worth more then double the Moon Black Dragon V2 price.  The balanced version may be better though and worth the cost.
 
http://www.stefanaudioart.com/shop/endorphin-balanced-high-end-headphone-cable-for-the-sennheiser-hd800-hardwired-version-price-includes-installation/
 
One of the reasons I bought the Moon's after my Richard Warren's failed - was the backlog at SAA.  For the HD800 Endorphins at the time it was a 9 month wait - payment upfront.  I'm glad I went with the Moon's.  Honestly, if it wasn't for the Moon BDV2 I would be using the Stax SR009's right now.  So I guess they saved me money - a lot of money.

 
So with getting the MJ2 it's decision time again.

 

[ericfarrell85]

I think those saying that the HD800's needs to be modded to sound good - have not heard it with a good source and the Moon's.  No need for mods.  The MJ2 with top tubes and the HD800/MBD V2 should be an excellent combination.  Me and many folks I know completely disagree with Tyll's assessment of the HD800's.  
 

 
This is the section in your post that rubs people the wrong way. Those people, "who have not heard it with a good source", are in many cases individuals who have owned more gear than you can conjure up in your wildest pipe-dream. Some of those individuals own DAC's that surpass the cost of your entire setup by 10 times. Others, including myself, would find the idea of pairing the original Lyr with the HD800 so grim, that I'd nominate it particularly as a setup to avoid. And finally there are others who own a Moon HD800 cable -- myself again -- and need a reminder on which closet it's currently collecting dust in.
 
SO... let us dispense with the idea that only you have heard the HD800 with a good source and an overpriced cable.
 
Yet, one question remains: have you heard the HD800 modded? While assuredly you're in touch with what other people have and haven't heard, it's wacky comical to think that it's YOU who hasn't heard the very thing you're arguing against.

 

[RCBinTN]

FWIW, I heard a big improvement in the SQ of my HD800 by moving from the Gungnir to the Gungnir MB DAC.  No other changes.  Much better bass clarity and a larger soundstage.
I'm using the Sennheiser HDVA600 amp and CH800 balanced cables. My HD800's have no mods in the cans.
 
Enjoy your music -
RCB

 

[rb2013]

This is the section in your post that rubs people the wrong way. Those people, "who have not heard it with a good source", are in many cases individuals who have owned more gear than you can conjure up in your wildest pipe-dream. Some of those individuals own DAC's that surpass the cost of your entire setup by 10 times. Others, including myself, would find the idea of pairing the original Lyr with the HD800 so grim, that I'd nominate it particularly as a setup to avoid. And finally there are others who own a Moon HD800 cable -- myself again -- and need a reminder on which closet it's currently collecting dust in.

SO... let us dispense with the idea that only you have heard the HD800 with a good source and an overpriced cable.

Yet, one question remains: have you heard the HD800 modded? While assuredly you're in touch with what other people have and haven't heard, it's wacky comical to think that it's YOU who hasn't heard the very thing you're arguing against.

Fair enough - I retract that entire statement. What I should have said more judiciously, and I completely agree with David Mahler, is the HD800's are sensitive to different amps. Maybe more so then other HP's. I would add, by their being neutral they also unmask brighter sources, and possibly poorer sources. Again, just one 'data point'. When I look at David Mahler's source and amp collection, I look at his data point with greater wieght. Now I can see his review of other HP's some may disagree with. Including some popular ones he calls 'dark' but in a good way. For awhile I had the $30,000 APL NWO, I did trade it for the $6,500 APL NWO jr and a bunch of cash. I won't go into my cables and power filtering, ddc's (see my Gustard U12 thread), etc. I just don't think many have systems 10 times mine - that'd be $400,000. I sold the Woo WA-6SE with it's NOS tubes for more then the twice what the Lyr costs. So it's not about the money spent = sound quaility. Sometimes it does, some times there are amazing values that are outstanding. I count the Lyr with the right tubes one of those. I don't just listen to HP's but have two different pretty refined speaker systems. So my perspective is broader than many. Now I ask you, if I think the HD800/Moon's are great, why mess with it. But maybe I will try it. I'm not adverse to modding equipment (see my R2R DAC60 Mod Project thread). If your Moons are the Black Dragon V2's and balanced - send me a PM - I'll buy them from you. No sense collecting dust in a closet. That has me wondering why you haven't sold them already? They sell quickly on the classifieds.

FWIW, I heard a big improvement in the SQ of my HD800 by moving from the Gungnir to the Gungnir MB DAC.  No other changes.  Much better bass clarity and a larger soundstage.
I'm using the Sennheiser HDVA600 amp and CH800 balanced cables. My HD800's have no mods in the cans.

Enjoy your music -
RCB

How much were your CH800 balanced cables? Do they offer a 4pin xlr option? I'm thinking of starting a new thread - a HD800 and MJ2 - hp balanced cable shootout. From the $4 conversion of the stock to the XLO's and SAA's. Maybe assemble 6 or 7 different cables. Would be fun!
Cheers!

 

[Nitori]

How much were your CH800 balanced cables? Do they offer a 4pin xlr option? 

 
The cables are 4 pin XLR by default, the Sennheiser Amps do not offer 3 pin options.
 
Unfortunately they are quite expensive (379 usd MSRP in the US, in Europe not so much) and I am not sure how well they hold against.....let's say a Moon Audio Black or Silver Dragon for approximately the same price (especially if you want a shorter cable).

 

[RCBinTN]

   
The cables are 4 pin XLR by default, the Sennheiser Amps do not offer 3 pin options.
 
Unfortunately they are quite expensive (379 usd MSRP in the US, in Europe not so much) and I am not sure how well they hold against.....let's say a Moon Audio Black or Silver Dragon for approximately the same price (especially if you want a shorter cable).

 
Correct, that's how much I paid for the CH800.  I believe it's the same as the stock SE cable but with a 4-pin XLR plug.  I've heard other Head-Fi folks recommend the Moon Audio Black to tone down the HD800 brightness.  I don't have personal experience with the Moon cables.  

 

[rb2013]

The cables are 4 pin XLR by default, the Sennheiser Amps do not offer 3 pin options.

Unfortunately they are quite expensive (379 usd MSRP in the US, in Europe not so much) and I am not sure how well they hold against.....let's say a Moon Audio Black or Silver Dragon for approximately the same price (especially if you want a shorter cable).

That is pretty expensive. I was hoping for a cheaper option. I bought my Moon Black Dragon v2 in a 10ft length, it's nice to have the extra length. And it's only $50 more. On the SAA's it like $200 more! The Silver Dragon's are good with the darker planars, but maybe not such a good match with the HD800's. I had the cheaper Blue's with HE500's I had, that was a great low cost combination. I loved the HE500, but the SQ and comfort of the HD800's is better.

Correct, that's how much I paid for the CH800.  I believe it's the same as the stock SE cable but with a 4-pin XLR plug.  I've heard other Head-Fi folks recommend the Moon Audio Black to tone down the HD800 brightness.  I don't have personal experience with the Moon cables.  

There is a review of a few different cables on the HD800's. I'll see if I can find it. With getting the MJ2 I'm sure I'm not the only one looking for a new balanced cable and exploring the available options. I have to say the Moon's are very durable, I'm hard on my hp cables. I use them alot, besides audio, I use my HD800 at night to watch movies, sports and cable. I like my action movies and football kinda' loud - wifey not so much. The speaker like sound staging of the HD800's it great with movies. But you know the routine, lot's of getting up, shifting positions. My old Warrens failed after a yr, the Moon's have heald up for years, and I have the stocks for backup. The Moon's also have a $75 4pin xlr to SE adapter for the Black Dragons, $50 for the Blues.

 

[RCBinTN]

One more thought about HD800 cables (sorry to derail the thread)...I ordered WyWires Red cables for my HD800.  Heard good things about that combo.  Alex is shipping them tomorrow.

 

[TheWuss]

Anybody verify use of E288CC yet for Mjolnir 2???

I just bought a pair but don't want to roll them in until i know smoke won't emit from the amp.

I know Lyr users in the past had no trouble.....

Thanks in advance.

 

[mhamel]

Anybody verify use of E288CC yet for Mjolnir 2???

I just bought a pair but don't want to roll them in until i know smoke won't emit from the amp.

I know Lyr users in the past had no trouble.....

Thanks in advance.

 
Heater current draw on an e288cc is 475mA, which exceeds the capacity of the MJ2, I would not suggest using them. The original Lyr had a heater circuit that could support higher current than Lyr2 or MJ2.
 
Thanks,
  -Mike