[NightFlight]

Quote:

 
 
I am currently burning in a pair of Amperex Oracle Label ECC88's such as these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Orange-Label-6DJ8-ECC88-Tube-Pair-Same-Date-Codes-/281085595042?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item417201cda2
 
So far the fit the sound signature you are looking for providing an abundance of detail with excellent separation and tight bass. I hope they develop a bit more soundstage depth and they'll be winners.  

 
150+hrs on mine and they did not do. I found exactly the same. They are narrow in the soundstage. Warm, tight and they gots punch and kick. Fun tube but it leaves you wanting.

 

[NightFlight]

RE: Siemens PCC189
Quote:

I bought a pair wish me luck

 
Good tube. I got my pair a couple days ago. Came home a bit dragged out and slapped on some tunes to rest a few minutes. Well.
Higher Intelligence agency took me on a bit of an intergalactic trip.  Another track nearly moved me to tears.  Ah well, I was vulnerable.
 
Once I put on my analytical ears I found the sound stage is very wide. The noise floor is up a bit and a hair more volume is required. The tube drawback is impact.  Detail is present but impact is soft.  Its the inverse of the Amperex OGs. This tube will do very well in some genres, but if your like me and expect your tube to do everything - move on. Still worth the money at around $35 shipped, and good to have in the collection.

 

[gerald410]

RE: Siemens PCC189

Good tube. I got my pair a couple days ago. Came home a bit dragged out and slapped on some tunes to rest a few minutes. Well.
Higher Intelligence agency took me on a bit of an intergalactic trip.  Another track nearly moved me to tears.  Ah well, I was vulnerable.

Once I put on my analytical ears I found the sound stage is very wide. The noise floor is up a bit and a hair more volume is required. The tube drawback is impact.  Detail is present but impact is soft.  Its the inverse of the Amperex OGs. This tube will do very well in some genres, but if your like me and expect your tube to do everything - move on. Still worth the money at around $35 shipped, and good to have in the collection.

Thanks for the report, will chime in when mine come in.

 

[solserenade]

Quote:

so why not take a pic or two?
 

 
 

 
 
Quite interesting ... ! Nice photos too.  

   
 
(can we assume you're running it like that? I have to admit to never looking closely at the cabinet construction. Is it "structurally sound" without the side panels and what-not?)

 

[toschek]

Quote:

 
 
Quite interesting ... ! Nice photos too.  

   
 
(can we assume you're running it like that? I have to admit to never looking closely at the cabinet construction. Is it "structurally sound" without the side panels and what-not?)

 
If you take a look at the 6moons review of the Lyr, the reviewer ran it without the cover and it was fine.  I wouldn't do that in a home with young children, there is some lethal stuff there for little fingers to explore.  Then again, anybody who uses exposed tube gear around children needs to think a little harder about the decisions they are making. 

 

[sceleratus]

nah
never opened it up before today. Flisker needed to replace his pwr toggle so i opened mine up to id it.
then... we'll take some pics.... then, why not turn it on?
never thought about it until you asked.  it is very strong with the rear/side cover removed.  it's two "d" bodies that slide together.  you could run forever like that structurally.  as long as you don't mind high AC voltage. as in north of 100V AC.
 
if anyone is dumb enough to want to try this, remove 13 of the countersunk phillips screws. all 6 on the top and 7 from the perimeter corners on the bottom. do not remove any of the inner screws on the bottom.  last remove the 4 black screws on the back panel.  2 x power 2 x in/out receptacle.
 
mine is all buttoned back up.

 

[sceleratus]

Quote:

 
If you take a look at the 6moons review of the Lyr, the reviewer ran it without the cover and it was fine.  I wouldn't do that in a home with young children, there is some lethal stuff there for little fingers to explore.  Then again, anybody who uses exposed tube gear around children needs to think a little harder about the decisions they are making. 

it doubles as a rat zapper.

 

[BeAsTMode4MVP]

I just bought the only Orange Globes I could find on Ebay. They aren't the "A" getters, but I am assuming these will be better than the stock GEs.  
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amperex-Orange-Globe-6DJ8-Tube-Pair-1967-Same-Date-Codes-/271181167112?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f23a83a08&nma=true&si=SqVvFVpDlLITXEtgN2UWRz74HCY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

[ilikepooters]

Quote:

RE: Siemens PCC189
 
Good tube. I got my pair a couple days ago. Came home a bit dragged out and slapped on some tunes to rest a few minutes. Well.
Higher Intelligence agency took me on a bit of an intergalactic trip.  Another track nearly moved me to tears.  Ah well, I was vulnerable.
 
Once I put on my analytical ears I found the sound stage is very wide. The noise floor is up a bit and a hair more volume is required. The tube drawback is impact.  Detail is present but impact is soft.  Its the inverse of the Amperex OGs. This tube will do very well in some genres, but if your like me and expect your tube to do everything - move on. Still worth the money at around $35 shipped, and good to have in the collection.

 
For a similar signature with more warmth i find the Phillips PCC189's fit the bill, i posted about them a few pages back, but essentially it's like the Siemens but with more bass impact, maybe slightly narrower soundstage but still quite wide, and the treble is nice and smooth but still detailed.
 
The ones i have were made by Mullard, Blackburn and seem impossible to get on Ebay at the moment, but these Holland made Phillips PCC189's appear to be identical construction from what i can tell and at only $6.95 per tube should be an absolute steel.
 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHILIPS-PCC189-7ES8-NOS-NIB-VINTAGE-VACUUM-TUBE-HEERLEN-HOLLAND-/261186327538?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3ccfeb13f2
 
Only 4 tubes / 2 pairs left though.
 
*EDIT* i think i'm gonna go find some cheap Telefunkens and Amperex's on payday, obscure ones again like PCC189 or ECC85's

 

[ilikepooters]

Anyone tried any Raytheon tubes in the Lyr? I've ordered a pair of American made 6922's to try, anyone know what their signature is like?

 

[Joong]

Tubes with gold pins have significant SQ delta in general?
They have far higher price tag.
 
I think electrically that when the contact being made properly through sockets, the contacting resistance is no more concern.

 

[sceleratus]

Quote:

Tubes with gold pins have significant SQ delta in general?
They have far higher price tag.
 
I think electrically that when the contact being made properly through sockets, the contacting resistance is no more concern.

gold conducts electricity far better than tin but this is of lesser importance as to why an "SQ" valve (E188CC, CCa, 6922, ETC) performs better than a plain 6DJ8/ECC88.
SQ valves from the 60's were made for military and test equipment applications.  Users with these applications demanded tighter tolerance for performance and longevity.  Both Philips and Telefunken rate their SQ series valves for 10,000 hours life.  I'm sure the others do as well.  Much of the valve performance lies in the electron flow from the cathode thru the control grid and to the plate.  The engineering of the grid is far more sensitive than the mechanical connection of a pin to a socket.  One of which is grid emissions.  With SQ valves you are paying for the tight tolerances of components directly part of the electron path.   Not that pins and sockets aren't in the path.
 
EDIT:
 
E188CC Specification
 
EDIT2
 
Compare the granularity of the spec in the E188CC doc to the ECC88 doc
Both are Philips valves
 
ECC88 Specification
 
EDIT3
The E188CC spec has a measurement for "Noise Factor" F = 4.6db  (f=200MHz)  and "Hum Voltage"  50 micro V RMS.
The non-gold pin Philips ECC88 does not measure these characteristics.  Noise & Hum sound like important things when listening to music.

 

[Joong]

Quote:

gold conducts electricity far better than tin but this is of lesser importance as to why an "SQ" valve (E188CC, CCa, 6922, ETC) performs better than a plain 6DJ8/ECC88.
SQ valves from the 60's were made for military and test equipment applications.  Users with these applications demanded tighter tolerance for performance and longevity.  Both Philips and Telefunken rate their SQ series valves for 10,000 hours life.  I'm sure the others do as well.  Much of the valve performance lies in the electron flow from the cathode thru the control grid and to the plate.  The engineering of the grid is far more sensitive than the mechanical connection of a pin to a socket.  One of which is grid emissions.  With SQ valves you are paying for the tight tolerances of components directly part of the electron path.   Not that pins and sockets aren't in the path.
 
EDIT:
 
E188CC Specification

Thanks for good explanation,
 
For example Bugle boy 6922 has SQ grade and has gold pins?
I agree that the pins and sockets are not important for the electronic path as long as the pressure and the area of contacting spot is ensured.

 

[Hachiko]

Now a proud owner of a Lyr! First thing I did was to put in my Amperex Orange Globes and started listening! Although, when I first plugged my LCD2s in I could hear a very loud static noise (like sizzling bacon I guess?) when putting on my LCD2's in the left cup. I thought it was the headphones so I rearranged the tubes around, then the static noise came back again on the right side! Is it possible the tubes are damaged in some kind or way or do I have to "burn it in"?
 
Bummer cause they sounded really nice... And I just got them too

 

[sceleratus]

Quote:

Thanks for good explanation,
 
For example Bugle boy 6922 has SQ grade and has gold pins?
I agree that the pins and sockets are not important for the electronic path as long as the pressure and the area of contacting spot is ensured.

you are correct.   but I have to say to a degree.
there is a reason that the customers in the 1960 for SQ valves wanted gold flashed pins.  why? gold conduct electricity better.  when you are trying to listen in on Castro you want the highest performance possible.   whether gold pins were wire wheel hubcaps on a caddy, I don't know.  what you are paying for is the 454.
 
I did not know that philips branded 6922's as bugle boy.  I have 5 different flavors of Philips 50's - 60's that have gold pins. They sound great.  I also have tin pin Lorenz PCC88's  Those sound amazing as well.   In the end it's what you like to hear and not what you read in the spec.  what the spec does is gives you a hint of what the performance might be.  a rule of thumb.
 
I just enjoy learning about valves.....and sharing stuff I've uncovered.  at this point I know a thimble full.