[jamato8]

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What about 6SN7 / 7N7 with an appropriate adapter?  I can understand if it's not officially condoned but for you DIYers or tube gurus out there, how does that sound?

I the adapter is easy to make and the 7N7 is a great sounding tube but I will take the 6DJ8. 
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6SN7s need a ton more voltage to perform at their best--hell, they'll take a plate voltage nearly 4x that of the 6922--one of the reasons we didn't go with them. The last thing we need is *more* heat, ha!

Yes, and that is why I could change up the B+ and change all operating points for the tubes. I used NOS, well at the time they weren't NOS, tantalum 2 watt resistors ASC caps for the power supply. I also raise the heater 60 volts above true ground. I agree, the Lyr needs not be any hotter. I 
 
 

 

[DemonicLemming]

Very cool.  Thanks for the response, Jason!
 
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Yep. While I'm more tube-agnostic, Mike has a loathing of the 12AX7. "Only fit for table radios," I believe was his quote. He introduced the hi-fi world to the 6DJ8 in the Theta preamp (not Theta Digital, we're talking paleolithic history here.) I mean, the earth cooled, and there was Mike, making hifi gear. Or so it seems.
 
Now, a 6SN7--Mike gets *very* excited about that tube. Not that it's going to drop into a Lyr. 
 
And yes, fair warnings above: not all 9-pin tubes have the same pinout, and dropping one of those in Lyr will not be a good day. If you're not familiar with tube-rolling, or, better, a DIYer who understands pinouts, tube types, and transconductance, I'd stick to the ones that people are using successfully.
 
And nope, no plans for a tube DAC. For current-output DACs, tubes don't have a proper low-impedance input to drive (or, well, to be fair, their transconductance is low when compared to solid state, so the cathode is still relatively high impedance.) For voltage-output DACs, we still prefer to stay on the solid state side for summing, etc.
 
You can expect that all our DACs will have discrete analog stages--Mike was using opamps in the Theta Gen III when I came around, and I turned him around to discrete in the Gen V with a discrete stage that measured (and listened) much better than the uber-super-duper opamps he was using at the time. That's a whole 'nother story--200 parts on a 4 x 6" teflon board with no soldermask . . .
 

 

 

[Jason Stoddard]

 
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Yes, and that is why I could change up the B+ and change all operating points for the tubes. I used NOS, well at the time they weren't NOS, tantalum 2 watt resistors ASC caps for the power supply. I also raise the heater 60 volts above true ground. I agree, the Lyr needs not be any hotter. 
 

 
Yep, I should have been clear--that response was for people contemplating trying 6SN7 in Lyr, not your own experience with them. Lyr really is set up for 6DJ8 types, first and foremost, with enough heater current to stretch to the 6N1P. It ain't running 600V rails.

 

[jamato8]

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Yep, I should have been clear--that response was for people contemplating trying 6SN7 in Lyr, not your own experience with them. Lyr really is set up for 6DJ8 types, first and foremost, with enough heater current to stretch to the 6N1P. It ain't running 600V rails.

And a few mods later. lol. . . . Hey it's all good. I really like the 12SN7, cheaper and very quiet. Ok, here is one for you to roll around. Battery bias. It is cheap and to my ear is better than resistor or cap and resistor. I also find it less colored than any resistor or cap. 
 
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Listening with the GE grey glass and they sound good to me. Very musical. 
 

 

[jamato8]

Okay, I like the 6N1P, at least the old ones and have for a long time but yes, we know it has twice the current draw for the filaments. That the Lyr can handle this is great but of course with that added current comes heat. For long term use I don't like to keep components really hot for a long time as it leads to early failure rates of things like capacitors. You can look at curves and temperatures relating to capacitor expected life, or usefulness. The cooler the better. Anyway, even on my mono blocks that get plenty warm/hot, I use a quiet fan which is better for everything. I don't think I will use the 6N1P a great deal with the Lyr. Too much internal heat for my liking. There are plenty of good choices in tubes that have a .3 to .4 mA draw vs the .6mA of the 6N1P. 

 

[sferic]

Thanks Mr. Scary, going for the cryos!

 

[MrScary]

Thanks Mr. Scary, going for the cryos!

Welcome my friend

 

[MrScary]

Okay, I like the 6N1P, at least the old ones and have for a long time but yes, we know it has twice the current draw for the filaments. That the Lyr can handle this is great but of course with that added current comes heat. For long term use I don't like to keep components really hot for a long time as it leads to early failure rates of things like capacitors. You can look at curves and temperatures relating to capacitor expected life, or usefulness. The cooler the better. Anyway, even on my mono blocks that get plenty warm/hot, I use a quiet fan which is better for everything. I don't think I will use the 6N1P a great deal with the Lyr. Too much internal heat for my liking. There are plenty of good choices in tubes that have a .3 to .4 mA draw vs the .6mA of the 6N1P. 

Good thinking Jamato8. I hate the 6N1P's the new ones that is.. And the vintage set I got from Russia was bad good thoughts man you know I was thinking when I was running the 6N1p that this thing is awful hot.. and as you said heat relates to failures I guess in some cases with the 5 year warranty from Schiit some would say doesn't matter but I hate to return stuff especially a heavy paperweight like the Lyr.. Think I will stay with the tamer tubes

 

[olor1n]

I bought my Lyr used and had a persistent static from one of the tubes. The seller was kind enough to send me his stock JJ's (the guy had two Lyrs). Listening to this pair now and the difference is more than apparent. Other than the static and a very subtle channel imbalance, I was quite happy with the first pair, but these JJ's are considerably better. There seems to be more air in the soundstage and the low end is noticeably less muddy... the dynamics and slam are retained but it's an overall more balanced presentation. I'm not sure if this replacement pair has clocked more hours than the first, or if what I'm hearing is the inherent variation between matched pairs, but this may very well illustrate why some have stated that the stock tubes are indeed very good. Those that were quick to dismiss the stock tubes as rubbish may have received lesser tubes or moved on too soon.

 

[MrScary]

I bought my Lyr used and had a persistent static from one of the tubes. The seller was kind enough to send me his stock JJ's (the guy had two Lyrs). Listening to this pair now and the difference is more than apparent. Other than the static and a very subtle channel imbalance, I was quite happy with the first pair, but these JJ's are considerably better. There seems to be more air in the soundstage and the low end is noticeably less muddy... the dynamics and slam are retained but it's an overall more balanced presentation. I'm not sure if this replacement pair has clocked more hours than the first, or if what I'm hearing is the inherent variation between matched pairs, but this may very well illustrate why some have stated that the stock tubes are indeed very good. Those that were quick to dismiss the stock tubes as rubbish may have received lesser tubes or moved on too soon.

It all depends on your setup your source DAC etc. For some the stock tubes just don't have a good synergy like for me and the LCD-2's they don't sound good for others they sound ok with my HD650's they sound ok

 

[MrScary]

And a few mods later. lol. . . . Hey it's all good. I really like the 12SN7, cheaper and very quiet. Ok, here is one for you to roll around. Battery bias. It is cheap and to my ear is better than resistor or cap and resistor. I also find it less colored than any resistor or cap. 
 
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Listening with the GE grey glass and they sound good to me. Very musical. 
 

Yeah Im re-listening to the Ge Greys now.. Since I did a tube upgrade to my DAC and got a new cable for my LCD-2's the GE Greys sound a lot better as things had gotten more resolving these tubes as you said are very musical.

 

[DemonicLemming]

There's gotta be something cosmic about it - I swapped in my GEs last night, just to change flavors from the Amperex tubes, and then I jump in here today and you two guys are back to the GEs, too.  Seems like the have a little more impact and delineate the edges of instruments and vocals a bit better than the Amperex tubes (at least, with the Blue Dragon cable on the LCD-2s).

Now I'm thinking about picking up an Iron Lung power cable, too.  That's the evil thing about having gear that resolves so well...there's always something new to try, and it's always costs money.  So much for my, "Well, I'll just buy a Little Dot for my K702s and that should do me fine..." thoughts a couple months ago.  No race season for me this year!
 
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And a few mods later. lol. . . . Hey it's all good. I really like the 12SN7, cheaper and very quiet. Ok, here is one for you to roll around. Battery bias. It is cheap and to my ear is better than resistor or cap and resistor. I also find it less colored than any resistor or cap. 
 
 

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Listening with the GE grey glass and they sound good to me. Very musical. 
 

Yeah Im re-listening to the Ge Greys now.. Since I did a tube upgrade to my DAC and got a new cable for my LCD-2's the GE Greys sound a lot better as things had gotten more resolving these tubes as you said are very musical.

 

 

[MrScary]

There's gotta be something cosmic about it - I swapped in my GEs last night, just to change flavors from the Amperex tubes, and then I jump in here today and you two guys are back to the GEs, too.  Seems like the have a little more impact and delineate the edges of instruments and vocals a bit better than the Amperex tubes (at least, with the Blue Dragon cable on the LCD-2s).

Now I'm thinking about picking up an Iron Lung power cable, too.  That's the evil thing about having gear that resolves so well...there's always something new to try, and it's always costs money.  So much for my, "Well, I'll just buy a Little Dot for my K702s and that should do me fine..." thoughts a couple months ago.  No race season for me this year!
 


 

hahahah thats crazy guess we have some synergy going on in the forum hahahaha. Yeah Im really liking the GE's now I hadn't tried them since I got my norse cable and replaced the tube in my DAC what a difference.

 

[MrScary]

Yeah Im putting my Amperex white labels up for sale I have finally ruled them out as having that synergy with my equipment.

 

[sperandeo]

My 6N23P-EV Matched Pair Military Cryo arrived today. I put them in my Lyr and turned it on. I left them alone to let them bond for almost 8 hours. I have only been listening for an hour or so at low to mid volume (wife is sleeping LCD2's are like room monitors ( but I love them). My first impression with these tubes was " everything has woken up."

The Lyr is the first amp I've ever tube rolled and I can believe the difference the tubes make. The bass feels more controlled and the highs are finally getting to where I was hopping the LCD2's were when I first heard them on my iDecco.

I will continue to listen and report back in a few day. I can already tell you they are the best tube I've tried yet. (I tried both tubes Schiit was offering)..

These Russian military cryo matched pair from 1982 seem to work nicely with the Lyr.