[Autiomatic]

I got my Saga "Classic" and Vidar to drive me LS50's two days ago. I replaced my Denon 2100 with them. I now have all of my HDMI sources into my TV, which sends optical out to my Gumby, into my Saga. My Gumby also has a raspberry Pi 3B+ with Volumio going into the USB that pulls all my CDs ripped to FLAC off of my home server NAS. The other input on my Saga has my Mani and my U-Turn orbit on it. My Loki is between my Saga and Vidar.

Impressions so far (for those that were interested). The biggest first impression is how nice it is to be able to EQ anything in my system. I think the Loki makes the biggest difference of anything because it is actively shaping the sonic signature, and when it's on, you can't discount how big of a change that is.

My first impression when I got everything hooked up was disappointment. I was expecting to just be blown away with the differences of having a bigger power amp in my system, and I wasn't. The LS50s still sounded like LS50s. Then I cranked the Saga to 11 to try to see how much power was on tap, and it didn't blow be away either. It was louder than comfortable listening, but it didn't hurt my ears. So my first impression was disappointment.

Then I quickly told myself, I'm never going to listen to them that loud anyway, so why does it matter that the pot position for comfortable listening is 1:30-2 'o clock instead of 10 o' clock? Regardless, it hits the volume I need with more on tap, just not WAY more on tap. So it comfortably hits the volume I need and has room to spare, it just didn't meet my initial expectations. Ok, change my expectations and move on.

But the audio quality didn't change in a night and day way like I expected either. I was a little disappointed with this as well. Then I started streaming some music and making my kids dinner, and I started hearing a little bit more crispness. A little bit more detail in the treble. A little bit fuller bass. The thing that I finally noticed that I now think is the biggest change is the blackness, or space between notes so to speak. It feels like it's a lower noise floor. It's not that my Denon was noisy, but it feels like when there is a rest in the music, there's a longer falloff to quiet than there was before.

I continued to listen to streaming for a while and then switched on a record with similar results. I was becoming happier the longer I listened, and the subtleties slowly started to add up to a noticeable change. It's not a night and day difference like changing out speakers or cans. But I guess it really shouldn't be. It is a pleasant and subtle change for the better. That could be the end of my initial impressions review, but I do have three more notable tid-bits.

1. My wife's control tracks whenever I change out my audio components is a deep cut off of Adele's 21 (not sure the exact song) followed by Taylor Swift's I Did Something Bad. She stood in the middle of the room in the sweet spot with her eyes closed and absorbed Adele. She was moved by the music and said it hasn't ever sounded that good. She was also against buying new amplification, but is now a big fan of the upgrade. So she doesn't want to hear a real difference and noticed fuller bass and more detailed treble. When Dan Auerbach's Waiting on a Song record was streaming, she told me something was wrong with a speaker and to come listen. What was "wrong" was a fuzzed bass coming into the track that she has never heard before even though we have both listened to that record dozens of times.

2. While watching her stand in the middle of the room, I was sitting at the back of the room on a couch and noticed how much my living room now felt like I was in a hi-fi shop sampling some new speakers. It was the "black" between notes that I really think makes the difference. It really sounds like a very high end system with that space between notes. I have read other reviewers talk about "space between notes" but never really understood the analogy until I got the Saga/Vidar combo.

3. When I eventually switched over to TV, everything sounded so much crisper. This is the first time I've had my Gumby in the stream with my video components, and it was neat to hear how much crisper everything sounds. The newscasters voice just sounds better, it's really evident. Now this is going from an AVR to a Gumby, Saga, Loki, Vidar, so the ENTIRE signal path changed, and it's apparent. Baseball crowds in the stands sound way more detailed, the music on Jeopardy sounds better, watching Deadwood on HBOGo, I don't have to crank up the volume nearly as loud to hear the dialogue. Once again, I changed a bunch of components here, so I couldn't tell you what made the biggest impact, but my guess would be the DAC. Do I need a high end multibit DAC to watch Deadwood? Absolutely not. Does it "spark joy" to hear extra detail in the crowd at an Astro's game? Not really. I really appreciate the extra detail in music, something that has the ability to get an emotional response. If I get an emotional response from baseball, it's because someone turned a double play, not because I hear the ball go into the mitt a little crisper. So I personally wouldn't recommend dumping a bunch of money into a DAC for TV, but if you already have it in your system for music, it does make an impact (I think) in TV that is kind of neat. Just my two cents.

4. Bonus bullet. The new remote with the Saga is awesome. It is just a cold, heavy, metal slab that feels so good, and so premium. Great design!


TLDR: Saga and Vidar improved my KEF LS50s with a string of subtleties.

Thank you for posting your impressions. Very thorough and helpful.

 

[audionics]

Tube shut-down is only on Freya+. Not an easy implementation on Saga+, plus, with only one tube...not as important.

You might want to reconsider that remark as many people like me run the Saga with very expensive 6SN7 or ECC33 tubes which cost around $300.

I think the omission of the tube shut down in the Saga+ is a bad decision.

For the rest : good job! When can we expect the tube shut down in the Saga+?
The remark 'Not an easy implementation' I do'nt understand.
It is just a dual contact relay with delay connected to the passive led supply.

 

[JohnnyCanuck]

It gets a little more complicated when you're talking about switching a couple of hundred volts

JC

 

[Robert Padgett]

You might want to reconsider that remark as many people like me run the Saga with very expensive 6SN7 or ECC33 tubes which cost around $300.

I think the omission of the tube shut down in the Saga+ is a bad decision.

For the rest: good job! When can we expect the tube shut down in the Saga+?
The remark 'Not an easy implementation' I don't understand.
It is just a dual contact relay with delay connected to the passive led supply.

You cannot please all of the people all of the time. The two devices are different form factors (size) and that may be the reason--just not enough electronic real estate--which is why it is not an easy implementation. It is also my understanding that thermal cycling tubes are detrimental to their long-life--but I don't understand the reason why turning on and off would be worse than just leaving it on.

 

[purehifi192]

I own a tonne of tubes already, including the new production tung-sols it comes with.

Is it possible to order Freya+ without the tubes and save some money?

Ditto. +1 for this option

 

[dieslemat]

Another option would be to sell the tubes that came with the Freya +.

 

[audionics]

It gets a little more complicated when you're talking about switching a couple of hundred volts

JC

Actually is does not: Most relays are suitable for 230V AC anyway.
We switch that voltage all the time in Europe.
The Saga+ has 200V DC anode voltage.

 

[audionics]

You cannot please all of the people all of the time. The two devices are different form factors (size) and that may be the reason--just not enough electronic real estate--which is why it is not an easy implementation. It is also my understanding that thermal cycling tubes are detrimental to their long-life--but I don't understand the reason why turning on and off would be worse than just leaving it on.

Because many vintage tubes are almost priceless as the cannot be replaced easily.
Leaving them on for 5000h and they are gone. At least they are not crisp anymore.
As the Saga+ is meant to stay on that would mean in 7 months.
If the Saga+ is not left on maybe a year.
Burning off a rare $300 vintage tube within a year for nothing is a rediculous thing to do.
Power cycling a tube a few times a day is not that bad for a tube.10 cycles a day are taken into account in the specs anyway.

The space argument I also do not understand.
It is really one NE555 monostable oscillator with a capacitor and one or two resistors triggered by the passive led power supply and a dual contact relay. One for the filament and one for the anode voltage.
You can even put the relay parallel to the relay switching the passive mode 'on'
One relay more should fit.

In the Freya+ the primary of the tube power supply transformer can be swithed as it does have a separate power transformer for the tube voltages.Not sure is it is done this way. Maybe that was the argument not to do it in the Saga+. But as it has just one tube the DC voltages of the tube could be swiched just as well.

 

[Porteroso]

If you are going for great sound, out of the very best NOS tubes, I think schiit is a poor choice in the first place. It might be incredible, who knows, but there are some really great specialized tube amp builders out there, and I can't imagine schiit does it any better. I'm sure they do it great though.

About the tubes, if there is no reasonable on/off, it doesn't make sense to put nice tubes in, so really it doesn't make sense to buy it, IMO. Which is fine! This is their thunderdome, and they are seeing what people want, or don't want. Anything that burns through nice tubes is a firm no from me.

Still waiting on the Sol... Last news was great news.

 

[EELawson]

If you are going for great sound, out of the very best NOS tubes, I think schiit is a poor choice in the first place. It might be incredible, who knows, but there are some really great specialized tube amp builders out there, and I can't imagine schiit does it any better. I'm sure they do it great though.

About the tubes, if there is no reasonable on/off, it doesn't make sense to put nice tubes in, so really it doesn't make sense to buy it, IMO. Which is fine! This is their thunderdome, and they are seeing what people want, or don't want. Anything that burns through nice tubes is a firm no from me.

Still waiting on the Sol... Last news was great news.

Yup. If you were going for great sound out of the best NOS tubes, you wouldn't be considering the less expensive preamp in any company's line in the first place.

 

[jnorris]

Does Schiit recommend the Saga+ be left on all the time? For the original Saga, the manual specifically says, as does a technician that replied to this question in an email that turning the unit off between sessions will improve tube life. From the manual...

Can I leave Saga on all the time?
You can, but it’ll dramatically shorten the tube
lifespan.

 

[belgiangenius]

Ditto. +1 for this option

So I ordered the Freya + and just asked in the notes section if they could hold the tubes and reduce the price by the value of the tubes. I figured it was worth asking. The surprising thing is, the Freya arrived Monday with tubes and I was billed the full amount, as expected. But I never received any response or acknowledgement whatsoever to the question. That's rather weird customer service.

Anyway, I have been listening to Freya + for a couple of days and it is quite awesome. It is definitely quieter and seems generally better sounding. It doesn't put my Yamaha B2 into protection on startup like the original Freya does. And it is so nice to watch television at night with it in buffer mode and not see $400 worth the tubes needlessly burning up.

The one thing I observe is that it now behaves like most gear with motorized POTS in that one push of the remote volume causes it to jump 3-4 levels. Is it no longer possible to adjust the volume one graduation at a time using the remote?

 

[audionics]

So I ordered the Freya + and just asked in the notes section if they could hold the tubes and reduce the price by the value of the tubes. I figured it was worth asking. The surprising thing is, the Freya arrived Monday with tubes and I was billed the full amount, as expected. But I never received any response or acknowledgement whatsoever to the question. That's rather weird customer service.

Anyway, I have been listening to Freya + for a couple of days and it is quite awesome. It is definitely quieter and seems generally better sounding. It doesn't put my Yamaha B2 into protection on startup like the original Freya does. And it is so nice to watch television at night with it in buffer mode and not see $400 worth the tubes needlessly burning up.

The one thing I observe is that it now behaves like most gear with motorized POTS in that one push of the remote volume causes it to jump 3-4 levels. Is it no longer possible to adjust the volume one graduation at a time using the remote?

I guess the digital value for the relay volume control is now derived from the potmeter and volume is operated and controlled via this potmeter.
So yes that way it will jump serveral digital steps when moved.

 

[audionics]

Yup. If you were going for great sound out of the best NOS tubes, you wouldn't be considering the less expensive preamp in any company's line in the first place.

That may not be entirely true.

Schiit has a good reputation and the Saga+ has the least amount of components in the signal path.
With remote control it is a unique product.

For me the Freya+ with 4 tubes with 8 triodes in the signal path is waaay too much as the weakest link in this chain makes the sound quality.
As I like to try and use vintage tubes, if any, in the preamp this is an impossible situation as vintage tubes differ in transconductance, Ia, noise etc.
My best use of any preamp might even be in passive mode.

For audiophiles that love tubes the Saga+ is the better Schiit option.

 

[Derrick Swart]

So I ordered the Freya + and just asked in the notes section if they could hold the tubes and reduce the price by the value of the tubes. I figured it was worth asking. The surprising thing is, the Freya arrived Monday with tubes and I was billed the full amount, as expected. But I never received any response or acknowledgement whatsoever to the question. That's rather weird customer service.

Why is that weird? You got what you paid/ordered for?