StanD
Headphoneus Supremus
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Use your smartphone as a remote, if it has an IR blaster with Schiit codes.
Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
- Thread starter Jason Stoddard
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Use your smartphone as a remote, if it has an IR blaster with Schiit codes.
Jones Bob
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I hear that Sony makes good focus grouped amps. You might be happy looking into those. And there is always DIY.
Jason Stoddard
Sponsor: Schiit Audio
2015 Chapter 2:
When To Listen, and When To Act
To cut to the chase:
And that’s really it. Sorry, guys, this is another business/engineering chapter. The fun stuff—on scammers and how to avoid them—will have to be in another 2 weeks. I wasn’t able to get with Alex for long enough to hear all his war stories. He’s a little busy, since January is a heavy shipping month historically, second only to December (yeah, weird, but maybe we’ll get into that later.
If you want to press on and listen to the whys and wherefores of when to listen, and when to act, I’ll try to keep it entertaining…starting with an anecdote that serves as a perfect example of how listening can go wrong.
The New Car
One of Centric’s employees, and a sometimes-contractor to Schiit, is Denise. Denise and I go way back…all the way back to Sumo. Denise is the consummate planner, coordinator, logistics master, and generally make-it-happen person. Or, in other words, the complete opposite of Mike and myself.
You might have met Denise at the last RMAF, where you also may have noticed that we were significantly better prepared than any time in Schiit history. This is entirely because we brought her on to mastermind the whole deal. Bringing her in meant that we had things like rooms in the show hotel (Mike and I would forget), that we had all the equipment shipped in time to avoid rush charges (again, we’d forget), that we had a much more appropriate space with tablecloths, printed brochures, a backwall, the same computers throughout (little tablet machines—thank Tony for that). Bottom line, she helped us immensely.
But this anecdote isn’t about that. It’s about Denise and her new car. A couple of years ago, she bought a new car, a relatively fancy one, and it had one of those keyfob transmitter and pushbutton-start deals that you see more and more these days.
“Hmm,” I said, when she showed me that cool new feature.
“Hmm what? What’s wrong?” Denise knows when I’m not thrilled about something, even if I don’t say it.
“I don’t know about those keyless things,” I told her. We also have a long history of talking frankly with each other, so it’s not like I was hurting her feelings.
“Why?”
“What happens when the battery dies?” I asked.
“Then I get a new battery,” Denise said.
I sighed. “What happens when the battery dies in a crappy neighborhood, and it’s midnight, and someone’s been following you, and you can’t get in your car?”
Denise frowned. “You have a bizarre imagination.”
“No, seriously,” I said, thinking about it some more. “Can you even get in the car without the fob?”
“I don’t know,” Denise said, now looking a little nervous.
“Does it have a low battery light on it to let you know when you need to get a new one?”
“I don’t know about that, either.” Denise was looking significantly less thrilled.
“Are the interior door releases electric, too?”
“I don’t know,” Denise said.
We looked. They weren’t. But I knew there were cars that had electric interior door buttons as well.
“So at least you can get out of the car,” I said.
“That’s good, right?” Denise said.
“Yep,” I said. “And it is a great car.”
“But maybe I should buy some extra batteries?” Denise said.
“Or at least find out how to get into the car if it dies,” I told her.
And there you go. A cool new feature. One with lots of hidden ramifications.
Full disclosure: I’m quite familiar with these kinds of systems, at least from a usage standpoint. The earliest one I had still had a key attached, on a 1993 Corvette that I ordered. It was literally brand new, first-ever tech at that point. I had a fun conversation with a car alarm engineer who refused to believe that such a thing even existed, until I showed him I could walk up to my car and have it unlock itself automatically—no buttons, no consumer input.
And I became familiar with using the key anyway when the batteries died.
And I became familiar with little glitches, like leaving the keyfob in the car and having it lock itself. Shaking the car moved the fob enough to fool it into thinking it was being carried around, and the car unlocked. Still, it wasn’t a great neighborhood to have it happen.
And I do have another car with electric door poppers and pushbutton start—but it also has a key that you can use on a hidden lock outside to get in—and if you pull the door handles hard enough, they work mechanically, rather than electrically. Otherwise, I’d make sure I knew where the hidden pull-cables were.
Now, I know why you see these systems more and more. It’s because people think they’re pretty cool, and they ask for them.
And there is something neat about walking up to your car, having it unlock automatically, and then just sitting down and pushing a button to have it start up.
But…
(Here it comes, you’re thinking…)
…but this is a perfect example of listening and acting without considering all of the ramifications. Let’s compare a mechanical key and a transmitter/pushbutton start system:
Key:
Transmitter/Pushbutton:
So there you go. A perfect example of a simple system that is being replaced by one that’s significantly more complex, costly, and inconvenient for the customer. You may even be able to make a case that it’s more dangerous, too (how do you get out of a car with electric doors that aren’t working—yeah, I know there are failsafes, but do you even know where they are…or remember them in an emergency?)
And all of this is thanks to the best of intentions… to listening to and acting on customer desires.
The Reality of Unforeseen Consequences
“So is this your passive-aggressive response to the whole ‘switchgate’ thing?” some wags will ask. “Do you really think keys and transmitters have anything to do with where you put your switches on the chassis?”
Well, no and yes. No, because I’m gonna talk about switches (and about other feature-type stuff) here, and yes, because I do think they are related—both are about replacing a simple system with one that is more complex, and has significant downsides.
First, let’s talk switches. Why are our switches on the back? Lots of reasons:
Re-engineering to move the switch to the front could be possible in one of two ways:
So, I think it’s a comfortable assumption that the switches will stay on the back.
But, while we’re at it, let’s talk a bit about some other convenience features. Now, believe it or not, we hear you…we do listen all the time, and use your input to shape future products and product plans, within what is possible in our budget. Sometimes you gotta remember that we’re all about bang for the buck.
Here are some other things we get asked about, and some reasons why we’re still considering how best to accommodate them…or why we don’t think we’ll be able to accommodate them in the future.
So what can I say here to sum up? It’s that sometimes things that sound easy have many unintended consequences. These unintended consequences can be both on the owner’s side, or on the business side.
On the owner’s side, something that sounds simple (and very attractive on first glance) can increase cost dramatically, reduce usability, or cause inconvenience or even harm.
On the business’ side, something that sounds simple (and that a lot of people seem to be asking for) can wrap them around an axle by diverting efforts to complex, long-term development projects, and add significant cost to the products.
Bottom line…listen, but dissect. Ask yourself: Am I really seeing all the ramifications of this request? Is it really as easy as I think? How much time will it take? Is the company set up to develop this…and support it in the future? And, if we do this, will it make a significant positive difference?
And listen for what they don’t say, too…but that’s another chapter.
When To Listen, and When To Act
To cut to the chase:
- When to listen to your customers? Always.
- When to act? Only after careful consideration.
And that’s really it. Sorry, guys, this is another business/engineering chapter. The fun stuff—on scammers and how to avoid them—will have to be in another 2 weeks. I wasn’t able to get with Alex for long enough to hear all his war stories. He’s a little busy, since January is a heavy shipping month historically, second only to December (yeah, weird, but maybe we’ll get into that later.
If you want to press on and listen to the whys and wherefores of when to listen, and when to act, I’ll try to keep it entertaining…starting with an anecdote that serves as a perfect example of how listening can go wrong.
The New Car
One of Centric’s employees, and a sometimes-contractor to Schiit, is Denise. Denise and I go way back…all the way back to Sumo. Denise is the consummate planner, coordinator, logistics master, and generally make-it-happen person. Or, in other words, the complete opposite of Mike and myself.
You might have met Denise at the last RMAF, where you also may have noticed that we were significantly better prepared than any time in Schiit history. This is entirely because we brought her on to mastermind the whole deal. Bringing her in meant that we had things like rooms in the show hotel (Mike and I would forget), that we had all the equipment shipped in time to avoid rush charges (again, we’d forget), that we had a much more appropriate space with tablecloths, printed brochures, a backwall, the same computers throughout (little tablet machines—thank Tony for that). Bottom line, she helped us immensely.
But this anecdote isn’t about that. It’s about Denise and her new car. A couple of years ago, she bought a new car, a relatively fancy one, and it had one of those keyfob transmitter and pushbutton-start deals that you see more and more these days.
“Hmm,” I said, when she showed me that cool new feature.
“Hmm what? What’s wrong?” Denise knows when I’m not thrilled about something, even if I don’t say it.
“I don’t know about those keyless things,” I told her. We also have a long history of talking frankly with each other, so it’s not like I was hurting her feelings.
“Why?”
“What happens when the battery dies?” I asked.
“Then I get a new battery,” Denise said.
I sighed. “What happens when the battery dies in a crappy neighborhood, and it’s midnight, and someone’s been following you, and you can’t get in your car?”
Denise frowned. “You have a bizarre imagination.”
“No, seriously,” I said, thinking about it some more. “Can you even get in the car without the fob?”
“I don’t know,” Denise said, now looking a little nervous.
“Does it have a low battery light on it to let you know when you need to get a new one?”
“I don’t know about that, either.” Denise was looking significantly less thrilled.
“Are the interior door releases electric, too?”
“I don’t know,” Denise said.
We looked. They weren’t. But I knew there were cars that had electric interior door buttons as well.
“So at least you can get out of the car,” I said.
“That’s good, right?” Denise said.
“Yep,” I said. “And it is a great car.”
“But maybe I should buy some extra batteries?” Denise said.
“Or at least find out how to get into the car if it dies,” I told her.
And there you go. A cool new feature. One with lots of hidden ramifications.
Full disclosure: I’m quite familiar with these kinds of systems, at least from a usage standpoint. The earliest one I had still had a key attached, on a 1993 Corvette that I ordered. It was literally brand new, first-ever tech at that point. I had a fun conversation with a car alarm engineer who refused to believe that such a thing even existed, until I showed him I could walk up to my car and have it unlock itself automatically—no buttons, no consumer input.
And I became familiar with using the key anyway when the batteries died.
And I became familiar with little glitches, like leaving the keyfob in the car and having it lock itself. Shaking the car moved the fob enough to fool it into thinking it was being carried around, and the car unlocked. Still, it wasn’t a great neighborhood to have it happen.
And I do have another car with electric door poppers and pushbutton start—but it also has a key that you can use on a hidden lock outside to get in—and if you pull the door handles hard enough, they work mechanically, rather than electrically. Otherwise, I’d make sure I knew where the hidden pull-cables were.
Now, I know why you see these systems more and more. It’s because people think they’re pretty cool, and they ask for them.
And there is something neat about walking up to your car, having it unlock automatically, and then just sitting down and pushing a button to have it start up.
But…
(Here it comes, you’re thinking…)
…but this is a perfect example of listening and acting without considering all of the ramifications. Let’s compare a mechanical key and a transmitter/pushbutton start system:
Key:
- Easy interface. Everyone knows how to use a key. At least for now.
- Reliable. Well, unless the lock is frozen or the key is literally worn out or damaged. Fun fact: I once blew a new notch in a key while using it as a screwdriver on an alternator wire and shorting hot and ground…which meant I couldn’t start the car after the repair because the key wouldn’t turn in the lock.
- Simple. It’s a machined piece of metal. Durrr.
- Cheap. Lose it? Get a new one at Home Despot for $7 or so.
Transmitter/Pushbutton:
- Easy interface, but with gotchas. Push and go, right? Sure, if the battery in the transmitter is good, and the car battery is charged, and there hasn’t been a mechanical or electrical failure in the transmitter, and if there hasn’t been a mechanical or electrical failure in the car. And what happens if it is dead? How do you get in the car? Or out of it?
- Reliable…maybe. I’m sure plenty of really good engineers sweat the details on these systems to make sure they are reliable as all getout, because the downside is so significant. However, there’s simply more to go wrong.
- Complex. Transmitters, electronics, code, batteries, switches, pushbuttons, receivers, pairing, security, etc. You can’t deny it’s complex. Read some articles on how messy the code is in cars, and you may start getting a very uncomfortable feeling in the pit of your stomach.
- Expensive. Junior tosses the fob in the washing machine…go to the dealer and pay $300 for a new one and programming. That is, if you haven’t already lost the second fob.
So there you go. A perfect example of a simple system that is being replaced by one that’s significantly more complex, costly, and inconvenient for the customer. You may even be able to make a case that it’s more dangerous, too (how do you get out of a car with electric doors that aren’t working—yeah, I know there are failsafes, but do you even know where they are…or remember them in an emergency?)
And all of this is thanks to the best of intentions… to listening to and acting on customer desires.
The Reality of Unforeseen Consequences
“So is this your passive-aggressive response to the whole ‘switchgate’ thing?” some wags will ask. “Do you really think keys and transmitters have anything to do with where you put your switches on the chassis?”
Well, no and yes. No, because I’m gonna talk about switches (and about other feature-type stuff) here, and yes, because I do think they are related—both are about replacing a simple system with one that is more complex, and has significant downsides.
First, let’s talk switches. Why are our switches on the back? Lots of reasons:
- In many of our products, it’s simply impossible to put an AC switch on the front, at least in the expected left-side location. The transformers take up too much space, and are frequently only ¼-1/2” away from the front panel. A good AC switch like the one we use on the back needs over an inch of depth.
- It’s closest to the AC entry point into the chassis, and minimizes the length of AC traces we have to run around the board. We don’t like AC running all the way down the board, as we’d prefer to keep its field away from more sensitive regulated supplies.
- Plus, as Mike said, we like to leave things on.
- Plus, there are these things known as power strips that have switches. Some even have remote controls.
Re-engineering to move the switch to the front could be possible in one of two ways:
- Very awkward switch position and long AC line runs along the board. How would you like to have a switch that’s 3-4” away from the left edge of the chassis? Nice. Plus, you still now have AC running all over where we wanted to have regulated supplies.
- Significant price increase—if it fit. A nifty soft-touch pushbutton controlling an AC relay needs significantly more electronics, plus a keep-alive transformer—translating into higher costs, assuming the extra transformer would even fit.
So, I think it’s a comfortable assumption that the switches will stay on the back.
But, while we’re at it, let’s talk a bit about some other convenience features. Now, believe it or not, we hear you…we do listen all the time, and use your input to shape future products and product plans, within what is possible in our budget. Sometimes you gotta remember that we’re all about bang for the buck.
Here are some other things we get asked about, and some reasons why we’re still considering how best to accommodate them…or why we don’t think we’ll be able to accommodate them in the future.
- Universal AC voltage. Oh yeah, this would be great for some customers. The ability to plug into 100-240V and have it work everywhere in the world isn’t a problem for Apple chargers and such, so why can’t we offer it? In short, because it is either complex and expensive, or it’s a compromise. Apple can do it because they use switching supplies. We won’t use switching supplies, because we believe that they are usually very compromised (in terms of noise) when compared to linear supplies. Linear supplies can use complex switching systems to detect and swap transformer primaries, but again, you need a keep-alive transformer and quite a bit of electronics. It’s pretty amazing how big a good auto-switching linear power supply is. It won’t fit in a lot of our gear, and even if it did, it would significantly affect the price. Our solution? Perhaps in the future you’ll see a voltage selector switch on the back panel…but suitably protected. If someone switches it to the wrong voltage, it’ll be a bad day. And even if recessed and protected, many someones will switch it wrong. We’re still debating this one.
- Fancy screens with nifty graphics. Yep, they’re sexy. They’re also quite noisy, as in electrically noisy. They also require quite a bit of programming resources. This would require that we hire additional people, probably full-time. Translation: much higher cost. And what happens when you have to reprogram for bugs? Our solution: there probably won’t be screens in our future. That’s what computers, tablets, and phones are for.
- Remote control. Yep, as we get into the speaker side of things, we understand that remotes can be quite nice. They’re not as important as, say, getting your grandmother’s oxygen tank delivered on time, but they are nice. Of course, remotes are also the thing that is most often broken or lost. Plus, you’ll either have to register remote codes (and pay for it), or else take the chance that somebody’s surround processor might use the same codes (and you’ll pay even more for that), or you’ll have to go Bluetooth and do apps for Android and iPhone, and then you’re a software company…with all the foibles that entails. Our solution: Still thinking on it, but we hear you. I expect you’ll see a remote from us in the future. But I don’t know what it is yet.
So what can I say here to sum up? It’s that sometimes things that sound easy have many unintended consequences. These unintended consequences can be both on the owner’s side, or on the business side.
On the owner’s side, something that sounds simple (and very attractive on first glance) can increase cost dramatically, reduce usability, or cause inconvenience or even harm.
On the business’ side, something that sounds simple (and that a lot of people seem to be asking for) can wrap them around an axle by diverting efforts to complex, long-term development projects, and add significant cost to the products.
Bottom line…listen, but dissect. Ask yourself: Am I really seeing all the ramifications of this request? Is it really as easy as I think? How much time will it take? Is the company set up to develop this…and support it in the future? And, if we do this, will it make a significant positive difference?
And listen for what they don’t say, too…but that’s another chapter.
StanD
Headphoneus Supremus
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Just a spurious thought, can't you take the secondary of your existing transformer and use that with a switch/relay to connect/discopnnect the secondary to the power supply circuitry? Is there much of a downside to leaving the transformer's primary connected to the power line, especially if it's OK to leave things switched on all the time?
MWSVette
Headphoneus Supremus
I would like to see a Sys 2, with 2 rca outs and a switch or button to send the signal to either or both rca outs.
45longcolt
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Hi Jason, thanks for the latest chapter.
Just to be clear, I don't insist that the power switch be on the front. I ask only that it be reasonably accessible from the side, so that I don't have to reach around the power cord. Like you did, brilliantly, on Ragnarok. Which I am enjoying at this very instant through speakers. On the one hand, Ygg being a taller component means there should be more room (as opposed to Gungnir, which really is uncomfortable for me to use, but I persevere!)
OTOH, how hard would it be to put the switch outboard, closest to the side? Maybe not for Ygg at this point, but something to keep in mind for future products. Please consider that, as a $2K plus, full-size component, I suspect a lot of Yggs are going to go into racks as opposed to sitting on desktops (anyone with a desk that big probably has an executive secretary to flip switches anyway.)
Of course, you know I'm getting Ygg anyway (unless you ban me for heresy.)
Keep the good Schiit coming.
superjawes
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On the all-electronic keyfobs, my wife's car uses these, but Mitsubishi seems to have thought head in a couple ways. First, the fob itself houses an old, dumb key. I've never experimented to see if the fob works without the key (perhaps that would be fun), but the car has real mechanical locks and an ignition switch to use if the battery dies. Second, her instrument cluster has a display that notifies the driver if the key battery is low, or if a key is not detected.
It might still be complicated, but at least they have planned for some of the most likely failure modes, and I think it works well.
Also, I would like a switch on the front of my Valhalla, but it is by no means necessary. Really, the only issue with the switch on the back (for me), is that the amp can get quite hot, and reaching around to turn it off after a few hours of use could get sticky...but that's really just a nitpick. My world isn't going to end if I burn myself on a tube.
It might still be complicated, but at least they have planned for some of the most likely failure modes, and I think it works well.
Also, I would like a switch on the front of my Valhalla, but it is by no means necessary. Really, the only issue with the switch on the back (for me), is that the amp can get quite hot, and reaching around to turn it off after a few hours of use could get sticky...but that's really just a nitpick. My world isn't going to end if I burn myself on a tube.
Jason Stoddard
Sponsor: Schiit Audio
Nope, not without a LOT of additional logic. Many of our products are already crammed as it is. Plus, Euro requirements for "Off is off, standby is 0.00000002mA current (I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.
Jason Stoddard
Sponsor: Schiit Audio
That would require daughterboards and wiring. Yggy is already straining the BOM cost.
Plus, remote controlled AC power strips and wall sockets are a thing (if you're intending to turn it off.) Best to leave that kind of componentry to people who know it best.
StanD
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What logic? The switch either engages the relay or not, like the Karate Kid, push on/push off (switch type, toggles). Space and Euro requirements are another as you say...consideration.
KLJTech
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Just leave your gear on, that way it's already warmed up when you're ready to use it and you get the benefit of a cleaner looking design. I don't mean to tick anyone off, but the man has said several times that they're not going to put it on the front of the case...I say good, I love the design, can we move on?
Jason Stoddard
Sponsor: Schiit Audio
Logic for the automatic voltage sensing/switching, plus the power components to do this on the AC side. If you have a simple way of doing this, I'd love to see the schematic (though it would still be a no-go, due to the European regulations regarding parasitic power--we're not going to make multiple versions, sorry.)
KLJTech
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Come on! What's the big deal Schiit Audio? Build some with the power switch on the front (some with toggle switches, some with rocker style switches)...make sure to build some with both styles switches on the side, for the side power switch crowd, known as the SPSC. How hard could it be?...oh, that hard?...never mind.
Actually, I while you're at it, could you add a dimmer switch/dial (some on the front, some on the side, some on the back) for the LED's? That way I could turn them way down when I'm listening and back up when I want to impress my friends. How about different color LED's? I can't be the only one that would like the LED's to match the color of my shirt!
Actually, I while you're at it, could you add a dimmer switch/dial (some on the front, some on the side, some on the back) for the LED's? That way I could turn them way down when I'm listening and back up when I want to impress my friends. How about different color LED's? I can't be the only one that would like the LED's to match the color of my shirt!
bigro
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Yeah I was thinking something similar. I am at a crossroads now I have the original Modi laying around as I upgraded my 2ch system DAC to the Modi2 Uber. Finally setting up a desktop system and have a Vali on the way to use with the Modi, For a Headphone setup. However I also have some Centrance Masterclass 2504 for a desktop 2ch setup on the way and would like an easy way to switch the output of the Modi to Either the Vali for headphone listening or to the preamp/amp setup for the Masterclasses. Because more often than not I enjoy a good 2 CH setup and unless its late or I will disturb the significant other its 2 ch for me.
A Reverse Bias on the Sys if possible would be awesome. I know you can use it in reverse with volume pot all the way up but you lose the ability to do volume control. I have mentioned before a larger sys with multiple possibly 4 inputs and maybe 2 outputs (2 outputs so a possibly powered sub can be hooked up) or in my above example that can stack nicely under a Valhalla/Bifrost would be soooo sweet. I'm not trying to start SYS-GATE here, just a schiity wish list For now its annoying splitters for me
I suspect I will need Preamp between the Mod whatever amp I use (possibly Emotiva mini x) to the masterclasses. So I may be getting a Magni 2 Uber
StanD
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All you need is a simple push in /out switch that takes power from an existing secondary that turns a relay on or off depending on the switch's state. The relay would simply connect/disconnect the secondary from the power supply circuitry. If you need to switch miltiple secondaries, etc, get the right relay. Those pesky European Regulators can be bribed, but that will drive up costs. I'd draw a schematic but I ran out of napkins.
While you're at it, how about a light dimmer for those LEDs.
