[Paladin79]

I see your point of view, and understand it, and it's obviously your choice to make, but I think it depends to a large degree on your goals.

Here's a very basic question - and one that's well worth considering.....
Do you want a system that sounds good or do you want a system that accurately reproduces what you play through it?
(Let's assume that they may not necessarily be the same....)

There is no correct answer there... but whichever answer YOU prefer is most certainly going to affect your purchasing decisions.
We all know that recorded music is far from perfect... and that there's no such thing as a perfect piece of equipment either.
However, your answer to that question is going to have a lot to do with how you select what gear you choose to listen to.

Personally, I prefer for my system to sound good, but I also want it to let me hear what I'm playing accurately.
And, for people who have that goal, while specifications may not ensure a successful result, they can absolutely rule out an unsuccessful one.
I've heard DACs with excellent conventional specs that sounded very good...
And I've heard DACs with excellent specs that I didn't think sounded good...
But, either way, I would not own a DAC with really poor specs.
Because, as proven by those specs, it is NOT letting me hear what my recording actually sounds like (and that is what I want MY equipment to do).

I had an interesting pair of vintage speakers once....
They weren't especially revealing... and in fact seemed to smooth over a lot of defects that would have been audible with other speakers.
They did such a good job of this that poorly recorded material actually sounded better on them than on a higher performance pair of speakers.
However, the downside of that was that, if you actually played a really high quality recording through them, they failed to convey as much of that quality as a better set of speakers.

No matter how good it seems to sound, if that DAC has a lot of distortion, or poor frequency response, I know it is NOT letting me hear what my music sounds like.

I've used this analogy a lot (although it's rather trite)...
I personally happen to like Madonna's singing...
And I personally do not like Elvis Presley...
But I still wouldn't listen to a stereo system that made Elvis Presley albums sound like Madonna was singing...

And, likewise, I wouldn't walk around my home wearing bright yellow sunglasses... even though they make everything look bright and cheery.

I own a lot of gear and go so far as to make modifications or build certain things to my own specs. One thing though, no matter what you hear, and listen to there are sometimes monetary limits. Do you want to spend another $10,000 for slight improvements to your system? I am to a point in my life where I could probably buy most any piece of gear I want but I prefer to invest in other things.

I might believe what I am am hearing is so good it cannot get any better but I do not think that is a realistic approach. Unfortunately on occasion I hear speakers I like better or headphones I like better or DACS. Should I never go to listen to other equipment? I have a Gungnir multibit DAC, and I use it a lot. Does this mean Schiit will never improve upon it or will I never hear something else I like better? Nope lol.

If you are happy with what you listen to, perfect, that is wonderful. I have not bought any new DACS since being involved in the testing, but I did find out there is a lot of good product out there, some of which I do not want to spend the money on. As I mentioned before, sometimes we just have reviews to read, or we can take advantage of trying out some Schiit product and sending it back if we do not like it. I am not sure how many others make that offer. I happened to be in a position to hear gear I could not hear in one place ever again, and I was able to form my own opinions about it as well as read others opinions if I so desired. It also eliminated any pre-conceived notions because I had no idea of brand or price. It was all about the listening. Someone mentioned a specific DAC earlier and not only do I own one, but I know several friends liked it. YMMV

 

[KeithEmo]

Just to be clear here... all views expressed here are my own - personally.
As it turns out, my idea of "high fidelity" does happen to agree with the majority of others here at Emotiva, so that works out well for us both ....

We don't really have a "company philosophy" beyond doing the best we can to provide products that do what the majority of our customers seem to want.
I would also point out that Schiit audio also has a similar philosophy... about leaving the choice up to their customers.
(They do in fact sell both R2R and D-S DACs, as well as both tube and solid state gear of other types.)

I've personally owned quite a few DACs over the years...
And had the opportunity to listen to many more...
And that included several R2R and R2R NOS models...
And all of the DACs I've continued to own are currently D-S ones...
(And, yes, given a choice between a DAC that accurately reproduces whatever I feed it, and one that alters it to "sound nice", I'm always going to choose accurate.)

I stand by my statement, Keith. You represent Emotiva so you stand by theirs.

 

[Paladin79]

Are we talking about a blind test where we ask a bunch of people what DAC they like better?
Or are we asking a bunch of people which DAC they believe is more accurate to the original?
Or are we actually somehow testing which DAC is audibly closer to the original?
(We could run one signal through an A/D, and then our DAC, while running another through a simple analog buffer, and test how many people can tell one from the other.)

I would be happy to answer this in private so the thread stays on topic.

 

[KeithEmo]

Where I work, at Emotiva, we are currently "between high-end DAC models"...
However, we do also offer a 30 day return/refund policy on all of our gear...
So there are still a few opportunities to audition before making a commitment.

Sadly, there are fewer and fewer stores where you can audition equipment left...
However, it is worth noting that you will usually find DACs, as well as headphone amps, at the various headphone meets that run from time to time...

I own a lot of gear and go so far as to make modifications or build certain things to my own specs. One thing though, no matter what you hear, and listen to there are sometimes monetary limits. Do you want to spend another $10,000 for slight improvements to your system? I am to a point in my life where I could probably buy most any piece of gear I want but I prefer to invest in other things.

I might believe what I am am hearing is so good it cannot get any better but I do not think that is a realistic approach. Unfortunately on occasion I hear speakers I like better or headphones I like better or DACS. Should I never go to listen to other equipment? I have a Gungnir multibit DAC, and I use it a lot. Does this mean Schiit will never improve upon it or will I never hear something else I like better? Nope lol.

If you are happy with what you listen to, perfect, that is wonderful. I have not bought any new DACS since being involved in the testing, but I did find out there is a lot of good product out there, some of which I do not want to spend the money on. As I mentioned before, sometimes we just have reviews to read, or we can take advantage of trying out some Schiit product and sending it back if we do not like it. I am not sure how many others make that offer. I happened to be in a position to hear gear I could not hear in one place ever again, and I was able to form my own opinions about it as well as read others opinions if I so desired. It also eliminated any pre-conceived notions because I had no idea of brand or price. It was all about the listening. Someone mentioned a specific DAC earlier and not only do I own one, but I know several friends liked it. YMMV

 

[Ableza]

Just to be clear here... all views expressed here are my own - personally.

I was just poking you, thus the smiley face.

 

[Voxata]

Here's a very basic question - and one that's well worth considering.....
Do you want a system that sounds good or do you want a system that accurately reproduces what you play through it?

This is quite correct. I've owned gear that has warmed up the sound and made things very enjoyable. However, when I game on my PC spacial queue's are messed up. I need a piece of gear that sounds incredible with music and doesn't alter the sound heavily. So, my motive is mostly accuracy and then enjoyment. Still, mix and match your chain accordingly and you can have a good taste of both.

 

[kcazbarach]

Finally arrived, still can't believe id ever spend this much on a DAC. but for me Gungnir is to be my "end-game" DAC (at least i Hope).

been up for a few hours. and i haven't listened too much, but the vocals sound better. not sure how to describe it. but in some of the music im listening to, they sound way better than the previous DAC. Note: previous dac was ODAC from jdslabs (way long ago)



PS: I also stupidly spent a good 20 minutes trying to figure out why it wasn't working for me after i had set it up. I was not getting any sound at all. (had to press the button on the front for USB Lololol)

 

[kumar402]

Finally arrived, still can't believe id ever spend this much on a DAC. but for me Gungnir is to be my "end-game" DAC (at least i Hope).

been up for a few hours. and i haven't listened too much, but the vocals sound better. not sure how to describe it.

I think the word you are looking for is "dense tonality"
Keep it on for next 2-3 days. It will get better and better.

 

[artur9]

Just to be clear here... all views expressed here are my own - personally....

Are there measurements which actually show the difference between D/S DACs and other types of DACs?

Like, supposedly, D/S DACs have really poor INL or something.

 

[RCBinTN]

Are there measurements which actually show the difference between D/S DACs and other types of DACs?
Like, supposedly, D/S DACs have really poor INL or something.

I remember this thread, and it's a painful memory, but it may help answer your question ... happy reading

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-yggdrasil-v2-upgrade-technical-measurements.881867/

 

[artur9]

I remember that but I don't think it helps with the question I was trying to ask.

Let me try another way: Given a set of measurements is there anything that would make one say "Ah! That's a D/S DAC" vs "Ah! That's an R2R DAC"

 

[RCBinTN]

Perhaps try the Sound Science forum.

 

[kcazbarach]

I think the word you are looking for is "dense tonality"
Keep it on for next 2-3 days. It will get better and better.

yea definitely is getting better.

 

[Byronb]

I can hear the difference. At least I think I can, and to me that really is all that matters.

 

[robert766]

Just got my hands on a Gumby! Had a quick 10 minute listen before I had to go back to work but first impression is good. Much meatier and more lively than the dac out of the bluesound node2 haha. Can't wait to have a better listen tonight.

Oh I didn't even know Oxford Comma by Vampire weekend had a bass line at all