[senorx12562]

So, I've read a good bit of this thread and learnt a lot ...but it's over 400 pages long and there's something I haven't been able to find: difference in sound over USB between Gung MB "B generation" and "C generation" (I'm assuming the models with SN starting with C feature Unison).

I ask this because I've heard the praises of Unison sung on the BF2. I'm looking at two DACs, a BF2, and a "gen B" Gung MB. Both pretty much the same money. If I was willing to wait/spend more, would the Unison version of the Gung MB be worth holding out for? Or have a made a grave error in assuming that a gen B Gung MB doesn't have Unison in the first place?

My understanding (Schiit won't confirm) is that Gungnir MBs with a B S/N are the A2 version, those with a C or a number are A1, so previous gen. My A2 (purchased 9/17) came with gen5 usb, not Unison. A1s will only have Unison if they've been updated by Schiit. Not sure when Unison became standard on the Gungnir MB.

 

[GoKart]

Thanks both for your responses. Well, it looks like I've gotten both (the joys on eBay). The Gung MB was £725, and the BF2 was £545.

From the pictures of the Gungnir, I can just about make out the Gen 5 sticker underneath the USB plug. Though that doesn't necessarily mean it hasn't been upgraded, as eluded to regarding future upgrades for me, this being here in the U.K. makes it unlikely in the first place. I do have a DDC (Douk U2 Pro w/ temp clocks). I think that could possibly close the gap between Gen 5 and Unison somewhat. This is my first foray into multibit. I briefly had the Drop Airist R-2R and liked it enough to know that I should travel further down that path but I'm expecting the Gung and BF2 to both impress me next to my current DACs VMV D1SE and Hugo TT (WTS UK/EU BTW).

As for the serial numbers, My understanding was that no letters or SN proceeding with 'A' are Gungnir A1s. B denotes the A2. But, looking on Schiit's own product pictures, the latest iterations that state Unison inclusion, etc. seem to feature SN starting with C; I was assuming that the C denotes the latest revision - A2 with the Unison implementation.

 

[senorx12562]

Thanks both for your responses. Well, it looks like I've gotten both (the joys on eBay). The Gung MB was £725, and the BF2 was £545.

From the pictures of the Gungnir, I can just about make out the Gen 5 sticker underneath the USB plug. Though that doesn't necessarily mean it hasn't been upgraded, as eluded to regarding future upgrades for me, this being here in the U.K. makes it unlikely in the first place. I do have a DDC (Douk U2 Pro w/ temp clocks). I think that could possibly close the gap between Gen 5 and Unison somewhat. This is my first foray into multibit. I briefly had the Drop Airist R-2R and liked it enough to know that I should travel further down that path but I'm expecting the Gung and BF2 to both impress me next to my current DACs VMV D1SE and Hugo TT (WTS UK/EU BTW).

As for the serial numbers, My understanding was that no letters or SN proceeding with 'A' are Gungnir A1s. B denotes the A2. But, looking on Schiit's own product pictures, the latest iterations that state Unison inclusion, etc. seem to feature SN starting with C; I was assuming that the C denotes the latest revision - A2 with the Unison implementation.

I know for a fact that there are many A1s out in the wild with a "C" serial number. I have no idea what Schiit uses (if anything) to signify Unison equipped units. I have never seen an "A" s/n, not that that means anything. Having never heard the Bifrost 2, I would be curious how you think it compares to the Gungnir MB.

 

[GoKart]

Well, looks like the Gungnir will arrive first. It'll be here tomorrow. BF2 likely on Saturday. Shame that I'm out tomorrow night after work ...and likely hungover on Saturday. I'll probably have to wait until Sunday before I can give both a whirl.

As I'll be using my DDC to feed both DACs, is anyone aware of sonic differences between coax and SPIDIF on these two?

 

[carbonF1]

Congrats on the Gumby and Bifrost 2, wow, getting both at around the same time . FWIW, the product photos are quite old, except for the first one now featuring the black finish. The same rear photo with the SCH number and C serial has been up there since at least 2018 when I looked on the wayback machine. Wouldn't surprise me if it was even older.

Would also be curious to see your thoughts between the two DACs.

 

[GoKart]

Congrats on the Gumby and Bifrost 2, wow, getting both at around the same time . FWIW, the product photos are quite old, except for the first one now featuring the black finish. The same rear photo with the SCH number and C serial has been up there since at least 2018 when I looked on the wayback machine. Wouldn't surprise me if it was even older.

Would also be curious to see your thoughts between the two DACs.

I will post my thoughts then. I'm hoping to spend all Sunday listening to music; a rarity. I will try and remember that I'm not there purely to analyse the DACs and to actually enjoy the music, but we all know what it's like when we've got new toys...

 

[GoKart]

I wasn't really sure what to expect when I hooked all these DACs up some hours ago but my conclusion was quite easy to arrive at. I'm still fairly new to hifi so I'll abstain from going into any real detail at the risk of making myself sound like a fool.

PC/FLAC > Douk U2 Pro (temp clocks) > VMV D1SE, BF2 & Gungnir A2 MB > LB MC3 > Kinki THR-1 > HE500, DT880 600 Ohm & HD560s

I had all of the DACs and the amp warm up for about two hours prior to listening. I spent most of the time with my primary music headphone, HE500. The first hour I went between last week's acquisition, the VMV, and my new Gungnir. It wasn't immediately obvious to me what was going on but the Schiit sounded "better", somehow. I started the musical journey with many of my standard test tracks, my favourite Tool track, Lateralus, is always first. The odd bit of Zeppelin followed, a track off Quadrophenia, Careless Whisper, True, some live Count Basie, and then back to some more contemporary stuff, Hyperlandia, some local bands with whom I'm familiar with, etc..

In terms of resolution, it was tricky to separate the Gungnir and the D1. I think I was listening for this at first but my attention was drawn to the smoothness of the Schiit. The primary aspect that became obvious after a few different tracks was the sense of space the Schiit presented. It sounded taller most notably but the layering was more complex on the Gungnir too; this helped with instrument separation, sense of depth, and the sound stage being more believable overall. Two other things were apparent during my listening. The Gungnir had better timbre and seemed more dynamic. Kick drums and snare drums were more slammy on the Gungnir. The sense of space that the Gung presents helped me make up my mind fairly quickly that it was the DAC to beat, but the additional impact really surprised me. I thought there was going to be more of a difference in timbre between the Schiit and the VMV but it was pretty close, with the Multi Bit ahead. Though, I purchased the D1SE as it has a reputation as be an excellent allrounder, so it does make sense to me taking that into consideration.

So, I added a few more tracks to my playlist, replaced the VMV with the BF2 and went right back to Tool. The differences between the Gungnir and Bifrost weren't immediately obviously. Tonally, I was expected them to be fairly different. From many of the comments on this thread, the Gungnir A2 has a reputation for being more neutral sounding. I'm not sure whether I'm getting this confused or that the change in the output stage is more noticeable on the DS Gung, but this is a MB model. I know a lot more about what the BF2 is supposed to sound like - 'fun', 'flavoured', 'thunderous and dark', 'engaging', 'exciting'. Though, I found both of these piece of Schiit to sound tonally similar - engaging is the word I'd use. However, what really didn't take me long to discover was the difference in resolution. The BF2 was lacking. I was initially surprised when I noticed this because, as I mentioned above, I'm fairly new to hifi and am always sceptical that I will be able to hear differences between DACs and ever more expensive amps, etc.. Though, as I found, the difference in resolution between the two didn't take long to identify. I think I remember hearing a reviewer say that this was one of the aspects that the BF2 isn't competitive in in this price range. This makes me a little more confident in my assessment. I didn't go as far in my comparisons between the Gungnir and BF2 after noticing the difference in resolution; I just sat back and enjoyed my music through the big boy, occasionally switching back to the Bifrost to confirm my impressions.

These three DACs all sound brilliant, but the Gungnir MB beat out the other two in one way or another from what I've heard today. In my mind, this Gungnir sounds like the love child of these other two DACs. What matters to me most, and what pay particular attention to when critically listening, is drum presentation. I'm a drummer. I restored vintage drums in a past life and studied sound engineering at university many years ago; my attention there almost solely on drum recording and production. I mention this as I wished to caveat everything I've said with that so as to highlight that I put far too much stock in drum presentation in my appreciation of audio gear so your mileage may vary. Though, I hope others will find what I've said useful so they too don't have to buy several DACs a week to find what they're looking for.

TLDR: Gungnir MB wins.

 

[TomSix]

GoKart: Quite Interesting listening comparisons. Good report —Kudos.

 

[bagwell359]

I have a Gumby MB that I bought in late 2015 - a1. I added the Gen5 myself around 2019. I thought I read you cannot upgrade the Gen5 at home but must send it in for them to make the change and they must also change the board with the chips on it.

I have heard the more recent chip models and they are brighter and more aggressive. I did away with my 12k Vinyl collection and my nearly $15k analog rig SOLEY because of how my Gumby sounds. I will never let it out of my hands. I have a LG v40 that is supposed to do all the MQA unfolding and sound great. Piffle my Gumby trounces it with one unfold.

 

[GoKart]

I have a Gumby MB that I bought in late 2015 - a1. I added the Gen5 myself around 2019. I thought I read you cannot upgrade the Gen5 at home but must send it in for them to make the change and they must also change the board with the chips on it.

I have heard the more recent chip models and they are brighter and more aggressive. I did away with my 12k Vinyl collection and my nearly $15k analog rig SOLEY because of how my Gumby sounds. I will never let it out of my hands. I have a LG v40 that is supposed to do all the MQA unfolding and sound great. Piffle my Gumby trounces it with one unfold.

I see you have a Ragnarok. I've been eyeing one of those up. I take it it pairs well with the Gumby? What's it's party trick/sound signature?

 

[bagwell359]

I see you have a Ragnarok. I've been eyeing one of those up. I take it it pairs well with the Gumby? What's it's party trick/sound signature?

I have the Rag 1. I have heard the Rag 2. The Rag 1 can drive speakers very well (KEF, Magnepan .7i, Focal, etc.) And has enough kick using balanced can cables to easily drive the HE-6.

It's big advantages over the 2 is that's it's Class A to 4 wpc while the 2 just goes to 1, and used its probably under $850. The disadvantage is it runs very warm, the 2 is an ice cube, and the pre amp in the 1 shortens the far left and right soundstage a bit. It can be heard but it does not normally damage the music and mostly it's not a factor. The 2 seems to handle it better. The low bass is better in the 2, but the bass of the 1 is well above average. I thought the treble on the 2 was sort of wild but it was a very early unit. The 1 treble can be a hair mechanical.

The Gumby MB a1 is a gem. It has the liquidity to take the treble of the 1, and the way the pair handles decay is wonderful. I find the Gumby MB a2 since it debuted in '17 to be brighter - more on the Sabre side of digital sounding making it less ideal to pair w the Rag 1 and the Rag 2 but far from a dog. I do not endorse the non MB versions.

 

[GoKart]

I wonder how competent a Rag 1/2 would be with driving something like a Susvara or OG HE6.

 

[Brubacca]

I have Gumby A1 that I had factory upgraded to Unison USB. Its a great match with a Naim Nait 5si.

 

[emorrison33]

I wasn't really sure what to expect when I hooked all these DACs up some hours ago but my conclusion was quite easy to arrive at. I'm still fairly new to hifi so I'll abstain from going into any real detail at the risk of making myself sound like a fool.

PC/FLAC > Douk U2 Pro (temp clocks) > VMV D1SE, BF2 & Gungnir A2 MB > LB MC3 > Kinki THR-1 > HE500, DT880 600 Ohm & HD560s

I had all of the DACs and the amp warm up for about two hours prior to listening. I spent most of the time with my primary music headphone, HE500. The first hour I went between last week's acquisition, the VMV, and my new Gungnir. It wasn't immediately obvious to me what was going on but the Schiit sounded "better", somehow. I started the musical journey with many of my standard test tracks, my favourite Tool track, Lateralus, is always first. The odd bit of Zeppelin followed, a track off Quadrophenia, Careless Whisper, True, some live Count Basie, and then back to some more contemporary stuff, Hyperlandia, some local bands with whom I'm familiar with, etc..

In terms of resolution, it was tricky to separate the Gungnir and the D1. I think I was listening for this at first but my attention was drawn to the smoothness of the Schiit. The primary aspect that became obvious after a few different tracks was the sense of space the Schiit presented. It sounded taller most notably but the layering was more complex on the Gungnir too; this helped with instrument separation, sense of depth, and the sound stage being more believable overall. Two other things were apparent during my listening. The Gungnir had better timbre and seemed more dynamic. Kick drums and snare drums were more slammy on the Gungnir. The sense of space that the Gung presents helped me make up my mind fairly quickly that it was the DAC to beat, but the additional impact really surprised me. I thought there was going to be more of a difference in timbre between the Schiit and the VMV but it was pretty close, with the Multi Bit ahead. Though, I purchased the D1SE as it has a reputation as be an excellent allrounder, so it does make sense to me taking that into consideration.

So, I added a few more tracks to my playlist, replaced the VMV with the BF2 and went right back to Tool. The differences between the Gungnir and Bifrost weren't immediately obviously. Tonally, I was expected them to be fairly different. From many of the comments on this thread, the Gungnir A2 has a reputation for being more neutral sounding. I'm not sure whether I'm getting this confused or that the change in the output stage is more noticeable on the DS Gung, but this is a MB model. I know a lot more about what the BF2 is supposed to sound like - 'fun', 'flavoured', 'thunderous and dark', 'engaging', 'exciting'. Though, I found both of these piece of Schiit to sound tonally similar - engaging is the word I'd use. However, what really didn't take me long to discover was the difference in resolution. The BF2 was lacking. I was initially surprised when I noticed this because, as I mentioned above, I'm fairly new to hifi and am always sceptical that I will be able to hear differences between DACs and ever more expensive amps, etc.. Though, as I found, the difference in resolution between the two didn't take long to identify. I think I remember hearing a reviewer say that this was one of the aspects that the BF2 isn't competitive in in this price range. This makes me a little more confident in my assessment. I didn't go as far in my comparisons between the Gungnir and BF2 after noticing the difference in resolution; I just sat back and enjoyed my music through the big boy, occasionally switching back to the Bifrost to confirm my impressions.

These three DACs all sound brilliant, but the Gungnir MB beat out the other two in one way or another from what I've heard today. In my mind, this Gungnir sounds like the love child of these other two DACs. What matters to me most, and what pay particular attention to when critically listening, is drum presentation. I'm a drummer. I restored vintage drums in a past life and studied sound engineering at university many years ago; my attention there almost solely on drum recording and production. I mention this as I wished to caveat everything I've said with that so as to highlight that I put far too much stock in drum presentation in my appreciation of audio gear so your mileage may vary. Though, I hope others will find what I've said useful so they too don't have to buy several DACs a week to find what they're looking for.

TLDR: Gungnir MB wins.

How are the drums comparing the Bifrost 2 with the Gungnir? I'm thinking it might be my next "upgrade". I'm a drummer myself, so that is what I concentrate on mostly.

 

[GoKart]

How are the drums comparing the Bifrost 2 with the Gungnir? I'm thinking it might be my next "upgrade". I'm a drummer myself, so that is what I concentrate on mostly.

That's where I found the difference in resolution to be most obvious. The clarity of decay of snare hits particularly, but all drum hits; the extra detail in the wash of cymbals; being able to more clearly here the character of the recording environment/reverb, etc., this all adds to drums sounding more real. The extra resolution also has the added benefit of being to better identify gear, the type of drums, how they're tuned, heads used, the brand of cymbals, etc., details often hidden by production techniques/lost in the mix. I'd caution you by saying what you listen to likely makes a difference, but as you can see from my post, I went through a decent range of music; the difference in resolution was apparent across it.

I was hoping to not hear a significant enough difference so I could happily keep the BF2 and sell the Gungnir on, save myself some cash, but alas, the differences were obvious to me...