[NA Blur]

 
Also what was the issue with the previous DAC?  Did it sound bad?  In what way was the sound bad?  Or was it simply missing a necessary feature?
 
Might be something else would have made more sense to upgrade before upgrading the DAC.

I did not notice a difference between the 4490 Bifrost and my already superb Grace Design m903. I did not expect one, but figured with all of the hype I would test the standalone DAC against an all-in-one unit like the m903.

 

[earnmyturns]

  Some of the comments here may come across as a bit of snobbery.  Fine wine, discerning palate, developed senses, that kind of thing.

Experience and practice that teach you some finer-grained distinctions are not snobbery. Many years ago, a musician friend-of-a-friend explained that he only had a cheap, lousy record player because if he started trying to get his record-listening experience closer to reality, he'd go even more broke than he was already. Yes, he could make our the differences much better than non-musician me, but he was making a rational resource-allocation decision. Sure, people get taken in by new shiny objects, but it's a bit of a know-nothing view to claim that all such distinctions are from snobbery rather than from actually having put the time and effort into learning something about what you care about.

 

[artur9]

  Experience and practice that teach you some finer-grained distinctions are not snobbery. 

Too true.  Which is why I liked your skiing analogy best.

 

[Seminarian]

I find this discussion regarding the ability (or lack thereof) to hear SQ distinctions on point. I have the lowest of the low Schiit Modi 2. It is now my 4th or so standalone DAC and it is the ONLY one in the procession that I can say bears any huge  improvement over its predecessors. The immediate predecessor is the Altmann Attraction DAC and it was clearly the best of the lot prior to the Modi. But between the Altmann and the Modi there is no contest. 
 
So, simply based on the leap forward made by the Modi I have just now put in my order for the Yggdrasil. Am I concerned that I won't be able to detect significant SQ leaps forward with that $2500 outlay? Not at all. The leap made by the Modi is enough to at least confirm that I have the requisite golden ears to pick up why the Yggy is so wonderful. The Modi leap also suggests to me that Schiit knows what they're doing. 
 
FWIW, my background is in music, having been a professional (brass) musician with performance experience in all forms, i.e. orchestral, big band, horn bands, pit orchestras etc. etc. Making it all the more interesting is having been a working piano tuner for many years, my ears are trashed. Tinnitus has all but ruined my enjoyment ability but my mantra is to buy the best living room sound - no headphones -  I can and let the audio reproduction system present to me as much of the original recording as possible, my ears be damned. 

 

[Seminarian]

NOTE: pay no attention to that "My System" thing at the bottom.

 

[bigro]

I envy Those Who do not hear much a a difference between DACS or other gear. your wallets must be fat and happy. Bimby vs Modi, Modi 2u and even Bifrost Uber was a very noticeable improvement for me. I did my comparison with speakers, there is a lot that you miss with headphones in my opinion.

 

[sheldaze]

  I envy Those Who do not hear much a a difference between DACS or other gear. your wallets must be fat and happy. Bimby vs Modi, Modi 2u and even Bifrost Uber was a very noticeable improvement for me. I did my comparison with speakers, there is a lot that you miss with headphones in my opinion.

Excuse me if I repost - there are a lot of threads.
 
Yes!
 
My upgrade from Bifrost Uber to Gungnir Multibit - let's just say I'm glad I was using a good set of headphones at the time. Per my amplifier, I could not discern the difference using any of my 3-most common usage (then): NAD VISO HP50, Sennheiser HD650, and another headphone (I am forgetting now). Only through my Denon AH-D2000 was there a noticeable improvement between the two DACs.
 
However through my speaker system, the difference between the Gungnir Multibit and the upgraded (better and closer sounding) Bifrost Multibit was incredibly dramatic.
 
At a recent mini-meet, I could tell the difference between Audio-gd DAC-19, Gungnir Multibit, and Yggdrasil at the first note - and the difference was not strictly related to volume. It was like they moved my chair, changed the room treatment, (Gumby and Yggy compared) and in the case of the DAC-19 put the players into a box.
 
Speakers add more layers to the deltas between DACs.
 
Yes!

 

[earnmyturns]

   
Speakers add more layers to the deltas between DACs.

I used to have more limited space for living room gear, so I had been sticking with decent small integrated DAC/amps, first Naim UnitiQute and then the distinctly better Bel Canto C7R. Now I have a bit more space, so I'm very curious to see what I could do with separate balanced DAC and pre+amp. I'm not in a hurry, so I'll wait to find out what the promised Schiit 2-chan gear can do. I need a remote, though

 

[rmoody]

  I envy Those Who do not hear much a a difference between DACS or other gear. your wallets must be fat and happy. Bimby vs Modi, Modi 2u and even Bifrost Uber was a very noticeable improvement for me. I did my comparison with speakers, there is a lot that you miss with headphones in my opinion.

I look at you funny a lot of times my friend

. I cannot tell the difference between DACs (Modi 2 Uber vs Bifrost Uber) yet I can tell the difference in amps (Magni 2 Uber vs Asgard 2). Yet still, on my DX90 I can tell between flac and DSD of the same album (I think).
 
It's a mixed bag this ability. However, somehow, a Mule 2 just got into my cart and was ordered all of the sudden. I just can't explain it. Even though I can't seem to tell the difference between DACs; amps I seem to can tell a difference in for whatever reason. I just fell in love with bigro's Vali 2, he nearly got an Asgard 2 back in fact (unfortunately, he knows where I work). Every time I've listened to one of his tube amps (Vali, Valhalla 2, Vali 2), I've come away wanting and wishing, now, that is nearly over (2-3 weeks backorder). Then what do I do about my secondary Asgard 2? Lyr 2? Valhalla 2? First. World. Problems. huh?
 
I do wonder why I have a hard time detecting the difference in DACs? Loud rock concerts? Target shooting? Aircraft engines/propellers inches from my head? Oh well, I'll still move to a Gumby once I save for it. Then I'll be at my end game....until.

 

[watchnerd]

   Wav 16/44 cd rips > roon > wyrd > chord cables > bimby > magni 2 u / Vali / Valhalla 2 > HD650/HD800-S

 
Congrats on the nice chain and welcome to diminishing returns!

 

[watchnerd]

 
I do wonder why I have a hard time detecting the difference in DACs? Loud rock concerts? Target shooting? Aircraft engines/propellers inches from my head? Oh well, I'll still move to a Gumby once I save for it. Then I'll be at my end game....until.

 
Pssshaw...
 
DACs are for sane people.  Real zealots get into moving-coil cartridges.

 

[landroni]

  I find this discussion regarding the ability (or lack thereof) to hear SQ distinctions on point. I have the lowest of the low Schiit Modi 2. It is now my 4th or so standalone DAC and it is the ONLY one in the procession that I can say bears any huge  improvement over its predecessors. The immediate predecessor is the Altmann Attraction DAC and it was clearly the best of the lot prior to the Modi. But between the Altmann and the Modi there is no contest. 
 

Given the price differential between Altmann Attraction DAC (~6000 euros, but even more if you get additional options) and Modi 2 (max 150$), this is a sorry indictment for the Altmann device... The Altmann DAC doesn't even have a case (let alone a fancy one) to justify anything that comes close to the headline ask price.

 

[landroni]

 

  I envy Those Who do not hear much a a difference between DACS or other gear. your wallets must be fat and happy. Bimby vs Modi, Modi 2u and even Bifrost Uber was a very noticeable improvement for me. I did my comparison with speakers, there is a lot that you miss with headphones in my opinion.

Excuse me if I repost - there are a lot of threads.

 
Yes!

 
My upgrade from Bifrost Uber to Gungnir Multibit - let's just say I'm glad I was using a good set of headphones at the time. Per my amplifier, I could not discern the difference using any of my 3-most common usage (then): NAD VISO HP50, Sennheiser HD650, and another headphone (I am forgetting now). Only through my Denon AH-D2000 was there a noticeable improvement between the two DACs.

 
However through my speaker system, the difference between the Gungnir Multibit and the upgraded (better and closer sounding) Bifrost Multibit was incredibly dramatic.

 
At a recent mini-meet, I could tell the difference between Audio-gd DAC-19, Gungnir Multibit, and Yggdrasil at the first note - and the difference was not strictly related to volume. It was like they moved my chair, changed the room treatment, (Gumby and Yggy compared) and in the case of the DAC-19 put the players into a box.

 
Speakers add more layers to the deltas between DACs.

 
Yes!

What speakers do you have in mind? I mean specific models and recommendations...
 
My problem with speakers is that the range of choices is bewildering, while the pricing goes from unaffordable to ridiculously outrageous. I mean, 200K for a transducer? Should I take a mortgage to get a pair? Right now the only point of reference that I have in the "realistic" speaker market is KEF's LS50, at 1500$. This is still remarkably pricey for many folks out there...
 
What affordable speakers pair well with the Schiit MB line?

 

[bigro]

 
I look at you funny a lot of times my friend

. I cannot tell the difference between DACs (Modi 2 Uber vs Bifrost Uber) yet I can tell the difference in amps (Magni 2 Uber vs Asgard 2). Yet still, on my DX90 I can tell between flac and DSD of the same album (I think).
 
It's a mixed bag this ability. However, somehow, a Mule 2 just got into my cart and was ordered all of the sudden. I just can't explain it. Even though I can't seem to tell the difference between DACs; amps I seem to can tell a difference in for whatever reason. I just fell in love with bigro's Vali 2, he nearly got an Asgard 2 back in fact (unfortunately, he knows where I work). Every time I've listened to one of his tube amps (Vali, Valhalla 2, Vali 2), I've come away wanting and wishing, now, that is nearly over (2-3 weeks backorder). Then what do I do about my secondary Asgard 2? Lyr 2? Valhalla 2? First. World. Problems. huh?
 
I do wonder why I have a hard time detecting the difference in DACs? Loud rock concerts? Target shooting? Aircraft engines/propellers inches from my head? Oh well, I'll still move to a Gumby once I save for it. Then I'll be at my end game....until.

Ill Trade one of my Modi 2 U's and some beer for your Bimby. You will not Know the difference, you said so.

 
 
Quote:

 
What speakers do you have in mind? I mean specific models and recommendations...
 
My problem with speakers is that the range of choices is bewildering, while the pricing goes from unaffordable to ridiculously outrageous. I mean, 200K for a transducer? Should I take a mortgage to get a pair? Right now the only point of reference that I have in the "realistic" speaker market is KEF's LS50, at 1500$. This is still remarkably pricey for many folks out there...
 
What affordable speakers pair well with the Schiit MB line?

I used the Mackie MR5 MkII monitors for some time. I like the Mackies Because they are Class A/B amps a lot of Monitors in that price Range use Class D Amps. Studio Monitors are a good way to go on a budget. $300 for a pair of the MR5 MKIII on amazon. The Mackies Will accept Balanced and Unbalanced and they will rival most Home audio speaker in that price range or the next range up.
 
Another Option that I currently Use are the ELAC Debut B6 speakers. $279 a Pair. Andrew Jones Designed and made a splash at RMAF last year. The Half Pint Emotiva Amps drive These with authority.
 
I you are looking for a desktop set. The Centrance Master Class speakers will Knock you socks off with Imaging and details. You do not need a Super Powerful amp with these. I opted for a small sub with these because I like a little low end authority. I used the PSB Subseries 100. its small sounds great and has the same finish as the Centrance speakers.  Speaking of PSB, I have not heard these but the Alpha line gets great reviews as well.
 
Yes I like Speakers.

   
Pssshaw...
 
DACs are for sane people.  Real zealots get into moving-coil cartridges.

HAHAHA...... Yeah I am looking at the Denon 103 R For my Rega .  I guess I am a Zealot

 

[sheldaze]

 
What speakers do you have in mind? I mean specific models and recommendations...
 
My problem with speakers is that the range of choices is bewildering, while the pricing goes from unaffordable to ridiculously outrageous. I mean, 200K for a transducer? Should I take a mortgage to get a pair? Right now the only point of reference that I have in the "realistic" speaker market is KEF's LS50, at 1500$. This is still remarkably pricey for many folks out there...
 
What affordable speakers pair well with the Schiit MB line?

Speakers and electronics are certainly an art form, in how to pick and choose. The guy we were visiting had about $5K in speakers, and perhaps as much as that in just an amplifier. But cost in electronics means absolutely nothing - I switched from using a $4.5K all-in-one digital receiver which used to do-it-all to connecting a few different external amplifiers to help with the heavy lifting. I found the cheapest amplifier had the best synergy in my system.
 
And today I'm using a Rag, and it sounds even better. But your original question is tough - you must have a local dealer, who will allow you to sit down and listen for many hours. Seems the guy we were visiting has his favorite hang out on the North side of town. I did the same type of listening back in the late 90s, before my store closed. And there's yet another member of our local group of headphone friends who also has a high-end stereo system - he too has his favorite local store on the West side of town.
 
I think the DAC selection is much simpler