[Deftone]

The DAC is just one link in the chain. Every piece makes a difference. What kind of sources are you listening to? MP3, AAC, FLAC, streaming....

What headphones and amp are you listening to?

Brian.

 Wav 16/44 cd rips > roon > wyrd > chord cables > bimby > magni 2 u / Vali / Valhalla 2 > HD650/HD800-S

 

[bgentry]

I'm unfamiliar with the configuration of Roon. I would make double sure that Roon is sending 44.1kHz as 44.1kHz without any resampling. I'd also try to turn off any form of DSP: No volume compensation, no eq, etc. That way the Bifrost can have the most pure signal to work with.

Brian.

 

[Deftone]

I'm unfamiliar with the configuration of Roon. I would make double sure that Roon is sending 44.1kHz as 44.1kHz without any resampling. I'd also try to turn off any form of DSP: No volume compensation, no eq, etc. That way the Bifrost can have the most pure signal to work with.

Brian.

roon has one of the purest outputs by default. all them types of settings that can reduce sound quality can even be force disabled but yeah its set as
 
WASAPI event, 44.1, no upsample/resample, volume removed. completely bypassed the windows mixer.
 
also the purple light is showing which means its outputting a bitperfect signal to the dac.

 

[Argo Duck]

^ Good possibility. Several others as well.

Deftone: Magni 2 is the more neutral (non-tube) amp and the better to test with. Tubes have variations that might overpower the usually subtle variations between DACs.

If comparing Modi and Bimby in some A/B way be sure to match levels (e.g. confirm outputs match with a multi-meter and pink noise). Level-matching can't be done by ear as I learned from my own experience!

It may be the 'differences' between the two DACs are - unfortunately - not along parameters to which you are (currently) sensitive. That would be a pity but good reason to return the Bimby and try something else yes?

Final note: though usually subtle, DAC variations are sometimes worth the price (or saving as the case may be). A detail that one brings out consistently and another doesn't is worth a lot if it's personally important to you.

 

[Argo Duck]

Sorry for the followup post...to add to the last paragraph above, I had 3 (Delta-sigma) DACs some years ago, owned between a week and a year, which all sounded pretty much the same to me. For a review I ran a level-matched test over some 10 days, expecting to find no differences. I was wrong.

Overall, the differences were found only in bits of tracks here and there - but once heard I couldn't "un-hear" them and some of them were important to me. As well, I found the 'self-training' needed for the exercise sensitized and improved my listening. It wasn't that I could 'hear' any more than I did before: rather I developed more ability to differentiate what I was hearing.

Good luck.

 

[sheldaze]

I recall Schiit has already tried to come up with battery powered DAC/amp along the lines of Modi, but it wasn't satisfactory enough and the only outcome from that was Fulla. My understanding is that the DAC/amp considered was Delta-Sigma.
 
I hope Schiit folks will consider coming up with an R2R portable DAC. A good portable R2R implementation has the potential of driving a stake through the portable DAC market...

This is precisely what I am thinking too.

 

[Limniscate]

   Wav 16/44 cd rips > roon > wyrd > chord cables > bimby > magni 2 u / Vali / Valhalla 2 > HD650/HD800-S

I keep giving DACs (Modi, ODAC rev a., Bryston BDA-1, Asus Essence One, Bimby) a chance because so many people keep saying that they make a difference yet I keep hearing no difference or very little difference.  I just upgraded my amp from an Odyssey HT-3 Stratos SE ++ to Odyssey Kismet Monos (powering Magnepan 1.7i's) and also can't really tell a difference, yet everyone else seems to say there's a difference.  I count myself blessed that I can't hear the difference because that means ultimately that I get to save on my pocket book in the future.  

 

[artur9]

Overall, the differences were found only in bits of tracks here and there - but once heard I couldn't "un-hear" them and some of them were important to me. 

 
That's been my experience.  Finding the right piece of music to illuminate the difference makes all the difference.  
 
My wife just got me Britten's Brandenburg.  Before I got that I couldn't tell the difference between the DAC in my preprocessor and my UberFrost.  With it, I can tell a tiny bit of difference which I haven't yet been able to quantify.
 
On the other hand one can certainly decide that the differences aren't worth the additional expense.  That is, why go looking for differences if what one has is satisfactory?

 

[landroni]

@Deftone
In addition to the other comments, I would suggest that differences between DACs may manifest themselves only in extended listening. Give it two-three hours with one DAC, and then the same albums with the other DAC. Relax. But if you're doing instantaneous back and forth switch-backs (as you would with transducers), all under the stress of finding SOMETHING, differences if any may well become imperceptible. 

 

 
Also the Schiit MB line seems to benefit from long warm-up time (burn-in, break-in, pick your poison), so there is this to try, too. Further, USB and OSs can play nasty tricks --- if I had a spare DAP with coax output, I'd use coax input for testing the DACs.

 

[artur9]

  I have that same hardware (CuBox) with Volumio. Did not do a careful test, but interposing a Bel Canto mLink USB>S/PDIF converter/reclocker between it and the Bimby (I have a couple of mLinks around) felt like a win.

I have the Cubox as well.  I tried it using HDMI but that was unsatisfactory.  I think it was resampling everything but I don't really know.
The Toslink from the Cubox is limited to only 48Kz so I could not use it for my high res files.  I haven't tried the Cubox for USB audio but maybe I should.
 
I got a W4S uLink to compare my pre-processor to the Uberfrost.  I liked the sound with the uLink better than straight USB.  Then I got a Wyrd and that cleaned up some roughness very nicely.

 

[monkuboy]

I'm one who doesn't seem to hear differences between DAC's when trying to compare one to another. Yet this doesn't save me any money because I keep buying them anyway! 
 
The thing is, as someone mentioned above, it's good to just sit down and listen to some music for an extended period of time with one DAC and then listen again with a different DAC. Not listening intently trying to pick out things to compare, but just sitting back and enjoying the music.  I've found that when doing this, I end up preferring one to another although I can't really pinpoint why.  One just seems to sound better than the other. I've found this to be true with headphone amps as well. Whether it is real or just psychological I don't know, but I find myself gravitating towards a favorite when I just spend time listening with the goal of enjoyment rather than analyzing.

 

[landroni]

  I'm one who doesn't seem to hear differences between DAC's when trying to compare one to another. Yet this doesn't save me any money because I keep buying them anyway!

 
The thing is, as someone mentioned above, it's good to just sit down and listen to some music for an extended period of time with one DAC and then listen again with a different DAC. Not listening intently trying to pick out things to compare, but just sitting back and enjoying the music.  I've found that when doing this, I end up preferring one to another although I can't really pinpoint why.  One just seems to sound better than the other. I've found this to be true with headphone amps as well. Whether it is real or just psychological I don't know, but I find myself gravitating towards a favorite when I just spend time listening with the goal of enjoyment rather than analyzing.

On this very topic Mike Moffat's own experience is illuminating:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/7725#post_11921090
"[...] Intrigued, I built a similar box with passive relays and a passive attenuator. Damn, if he wasn't right. It is really difficult to tell differences in an instantaneous blind A/B test between tube gear that I built versus some commercial gear that I was not particularly fond of. I used to bet John beers that I could tell the difference. Usually, I won at 7 out of 10 picks or so – the best I ever did was 9 out of ten. But it was really hard.

 
This whole deal made me wonder if I was crazy hearing differences between amps. If what John said was true, and many others have said in the passing 40 years or so, there is no point for an audio hobby involving anything other than transducers. What?

 
So I tried something new – I still did the A/B tests, matched levels, but allowed long-term listening to each; at least an hour or two with known recordings. Guess what! Suddenly I knew which was what. I tried it out on John B and Mike and Dave and all my other audio buddies. They called it too – tubes vs a bad solid state preamp. Every friggin' time. My enthusiasm had returned. This taught me that the human ear is an integral, NOT differential device.

 
So much for the blind A/B instantaneous naysayers. All that matters is frequency response, they say. People can't hear anything much above 20KHz in their prime, less later. The ear has a short memory, it is all bias, blah, blah. They should take up a different hobby, say stamp collecting. [...]"

 

[earnmyturns]

 
I have the Cubox as well.  I tried it using HDMI but that was unsatisfactory.  I think it was resampling everything but I don't really know.
The Toslink from the Cubox is limited to only 48Kz so I could not use it for my high res files.  I haven't tried the Cubox for USB audio but maybe I should.
 
I got a W4S uLink to compare my pre-processor to the Uberfrost.  I liked the sound with the uLink better than straight USB.  Then I got a Wyrd and that cleaned up some roughness very nicely.

HDMI is the spawn of the (copy protection) devil. Direct USB from Cubox + Volumio is pretty good, but using the Bel Canto mLink to convert Cubox USB to coax S/PDIF into my DACs (Bel Canto C7R for my speaker setup, Bimby for headphone setup) felt like an improvement in soundstage and realism in string and percussion onsets and decays. The usual subjectivity and placebo effect caveats apply.

 

[Deftone]

Yes i understand guys and thank you for your comments but really, should i have to go to all this extra effort and hastle to hear the difference between a £100 dac and a £600 dac?
 
for an upgrade that big, shouldnt i be able to just plug in place of the modi 2 and enjoy the upgrade? messing with settings, listening for subtle ques and details, taking time to train my ears for the new dac. honestly i just wanna enjoy the music.
 

 

[earnmyturns]

   
i couldnt even tell a slight difference coming from modi 2
 
 
then a few days later i watch this review.. so are my ears broke, are zeos ears broke? why cant i hear it but everyone else can? have we all been tricked by placebo?
 
im honestly considering getting rid of all my stuff and using some £20 sennheiser earphones from my smart phone.

Who knows? Only you can tell what you hear. There are several recordings that I've listened to many times over the last 40 years, such as "Conference of the Birds" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference_of_the_Birds_(Dave_Holland_album), which I've owned since it came out in 1973 (first as vinyl, then as CD). The experience of that record (ripped to FLAC) when I got my (properly burned-in) Bimby was a revelation, especially with respect to how *live* Dave Holland's bass sounded. It doesn't hurt that I've heard Holland live on average once a year over the last 15 years, most times so close that the direct sound from the strings is not drowned by stage amplification. But this is super-subjective, of course. Works for me, anyway.