[socrates63]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Portable amps, no matter how good, cannot replace home amps for most headphones that were designed for home use if you're thinking about sq. A lot of head-fiers use portable amps as a stepping stone towards a home system due to budget, wanting to get into the hobby slowly, living in a dorm and needing portability, office rigs, etc. There's nothing wrong with that as long as they don't kid themselves that a portable can do what a decent home amp and source bring to the listening experience unless they're using portable headphones, iems, or a very few select home headphone choices.

QFT

But it took me a long time to realize this.

 

[socrates63]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dual-mono? So is that why it uses two 9Vs? The only problem I can see is the fact that it doesn't have an internal charging circuit. I hope Ray will update the SR-71 soon with some sort of internally rechargeable lithium battery solution.

I agree. As much as I loved the SR-71, I finally sold it because of the inconvenience of swapping batteries.

 

[jamato8]

I think as things evolve, as with the iBasso P2 using a discrete output, that portables will scale higher and higher and although I have always believed in refinement and shear power for the ultimate sound in speakers I have also heard refined 5 watt amps performing at dizzying heights, with the right speakers of course. So having said that, The right portable and a few full sized cans, in my opinion, do an admirable job performing as a home system.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by socrates63 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree. As much as I loved the SR-71, I finally sold it because of the inconvenience of swapping batteries.

im not sure i follow. perhaps its my lack of use of my sr-71 (work and travel exclusively, with dedicated home amps) but i dont think its particularly power-hungry at all.

on the whole note of using a portable amp for home i do agree with boomana. aside from owning some seriously nice portable amps, she shares my opinion on the whole portable amp at home thing.

avoid it if possible. if its a hold-over until the wallet can get a better amp in the house, we have all been there. but it should not be thought of as a replacement to a dedicated home amp.

the k-240 sextet can sound REALLLLY fantastic with a well paired amp (i would look towards: warm, very smooooth, almost syrupy.) its a very nice thing. the REALLY cool thing with this is that they will play well from inexpensive tube amps. if they (the k240) dont like the amp, they are not really too gentle telling you so...

 

[socrates63]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif im not sure i follow. perhaps its my lack of use of my sr-71 (work and travel exclusively, with dedicated home amps) but i dont think its particularly power-hungry at all.

You're right that the SR-71 offers good battery life. However, over time, it became a nuisance to swap the batteries, and a hassle to keep a fresh pair of 9v rechargeables around. At the time, I didn't have a home amp and the SR-71 was pulling double duty -- I used it at home and at work. Basically, I was using it constantly. Later, I got the Hornet and it was nice not having to deal with the thumb screws and all.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamal007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif how about the pico as a home amp dac. will it be better than a $250ish home amps?

I'm sure the Pico is a nice amp and DAC, but it just will not have enough power to drive full-sized headphones adequately. You need power going in to get the power going out. At this point, you cannot get enough power out of a battery to compete with the 120V and plenty of amps coming out of the wall.

The best amps run in Class A, which is both wildly inefficient (note the power draw versus input, as well as the heat it gives off) and the most linear type. You need Watts to drive that. A Watt is what you get when you multiply amps and volts. Look at the battery ratings and look at what comes out of the wall. There is no comparison.

Desktop amps, as a rule, are better than portables.

The Pico with DAC is about $500. Look into a PreSonus Central Station. That has enough juice to drive a K-1000. 'Nuff said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shopper /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed. The HD650 is a high end headphone that can be driven very successfully (without reaching the lustful heights of Audio Perfection, perhaps) by a portable amp (the P2 seems a great example, another being the Little Dot Mk I).

No. No, it can't. I've given it a shot with a few portables and I think the HD-650 sounds crappy unless driven with a lot of solid state power. Power that does not come from a battery. Unless we're talking about a battery that would be tough to carry and could not be put in your pocket.

I think people are beginning to compare amps on price alone. The calculus seems to be that if prices are about equivalent, then performance must be as well. That's just not how it works.

There's a massive amount of hype surrounding portable amps. If that's all you've ever heard, then you might think it's all you need. Marketing (and I'm not just talking about print ads) tells you that you need a portable as a "beginner" and an "introduction" to amps before you make another step. That's just people trying to sell you stuff.

But the prices are going up and up around what desktop amps go for and they just do not compare. Do some basic math. Look at the power in and how that effects the power out. A battery is not line current.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamal007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif how about the pico as a home amp dac. will it be better than a $250ish home amps?

That's not a fair question. It depends on what headphones you're trying to drive and what $250 amp you're using for comparison. If you've got iems or something like an ESW9, the Pico will even be the better choice. If you, like the OP, have Sextettes or K701, HD650s, K340s, etc., a Darkvoice 336, once you change out the tubes, will kill the Pico. You simply can't get the amounts of current and voltage swing that decent home amps provide in an itsy-bitsy, battery-powered amp. No amount of wishing it were true can change that.

Just because an amp can make headphones loud, doesn't mean it can drive them well. Loudness does not equal sound quality. I heard a Go-Vibe 5 drive HD650s quite loudly, but it sounded like loud crap. Why bother. Some portable amps, like the SR-71 mentioned earlier do a better job, but not as a replacement for a home amp if you're buying home and/or reference quality headphones. I've heard HD600s with the Pico, and was impressed enough to buy one. I won't, however, be using my 600s with it, unless I'm using it as a source only. I will happily use it as an amp with other headphones that I own.

 

[Penchum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif No. No, it can't. I've given it a shot with a few portables and I think the HD-650 sounds crappy unless driven with a lot of solid state power. Power that does not come from a battery. Unless we're talking about a battery that would be tough to carry and could not be put in your pocket. I think people are beginning to compare amps on price alone. The calculus seems to be that if prices are about equivalent, then performance must be as well. That's just not how it works. There's a massive amount of hype surrounding portable amps. If that's all you've ever heard, then you might think it's all you need. Marketing (and I'm not just talking about print ads) tells you that you need a portable as a "beginner" and an "introduction" to amps before you make another step. That's just people trying to sell you stuff. But the prices are going up and up around what desktop amps go for and they just do not compare. Do some basic math. Look at the power in and how that effects the power out. A battery is not line current.

Sorry Uncle Erik, what you said above is "what was" and not "what is", right now. I have a new Little-Tube MK1 portable amp and it drives my HD-650s with ease. It is equal to everything you could want in a sub $350 home amp. It has power, plenty of headroom, transparency and does not color the music. It is designed to run 600ohm (and below) headphones! At 60% volume (approaching too much), it will run solid for 17 hours! It's specifications are superb and include the LM4562 Opamp. Additional testing is underway, but it is clear that the MK1 represents a new, higher plateau for portable amps. This is a good thing, especially with a $119 price tag!

 

[manaox2]

The Meier Arietta ($250) is ranked by opinion to beat the best portable amp (LISA III $500+) I can think of (except for maybe the $1000+ portable rudistor). Basically, a portable amp is very unlikely to do a better all around job over a recommended desktop amp. Its been stated enough now in this thread, you don't have to throw out specific amp names to see if we didn't think of something.

Its not "can" it drive it, it is with what quality when your paying big bucks. The LISA III should drive HD650 just fine, but with a desktop amp at half the price, you'll still be outperformed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif the k-240 sextet can sound REALLLLY fantastic with a well paired amp (i would look towards: warm, very smooooth, almost syrupy.) its a very nice thing. the REALLY cool thing with this is that they will play well from inexpensive tube amps. if they (the k240) dont like the amp, they are not really too gentle telling you so...

Haha, yeah, the 600 ohm didn't like the Corda Move so much. Don't think I'm bashing the Move at all, it was AMAZING with many headphones.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shopper /img/forum/go_quote.gif I never use portable amps with batteries. Have you tried something like the iBasso P2? Me neither but I know for a fact that it (or the Little Dot Mk I) has the energy to drive the HD650 (which is not nearly as hard to drive well as some swear) pretty well. And lastly my Xenos 1HA-EPC (modified in the line opamps) sounds GREAT with my HD650.

Tell me what you mean by being driven well. Also, which home amps have you heard with the HD650s? It's easy to drive the 650s loudly. A Cmoy can do that. Driving them well is an entirely different matter, and even many excellent home amps can't do it right. I'm glad you're enjoying your headphones. That's what this hobby is all about, but your post is misleading and not true if we're talking sound quality instead of just volume.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penchum /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry Uncle Erik, what you said above is "what was" and not "what is", right now. I have a new Little-Tube MK1 portable amp and it drives my HD-650s with ease. It is equal to everything you could want in a sub $350 home amp. It has power, plenty of headroom, transparency and does not color the music. It is designed to run 600ohm (and below) headphones! At 60% volume (approaching too much), it will run solid for 17 hours! It's specifications are superb and include the LM4562 Opamp. Additional testing is underway, but it is clear that the MK1 represents a new, higher plateau for portable amps. This is a good thing, especially with a $119 price tag!

Again, I'm glad you're happy with your amp, but you don't know what you're talking about here. You're spouting marketing lingo, which means nothing in reality. Tell me what those "superb" specs mean after comparing them with those of home amps designed to drive high impedance headphones. Tell me which home amps you've listened to. Liking your amp is one thing. Saying a battery-powered mini amp can drive HD650s better than a decent home amp that was made for high impedance headphones, is just plain false.

 

[Penchum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Again, I'm glad you're happy with your amp, but you don't know what you're talking about here. You're spouting marketing lingo, which means nothing in reality. Tell me what those "superb" specs mean after comparing them with those of home amps designed to drive high impedance headphones. Tell me which home amps you've listened to. Liking your amp is one thing. Saying a battery-powered mini amp can drive HD650s better than a decent home amp that was made for high impedance headphones, is just plain false.

Well, its too bad you feel that way. Your coming across like a know it all and that is just plain tasteless. It does exactly what I said and there is plenty more to be said about it. Just because it doesn't fit within the parameters of your memory (from reading someone else's posts), does not mean I have no idea of what I'm talking about. I was honest and direct and for you to imply otherwise is totally out of line.

 

[PFKMan23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penchum /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, its too bad you feel that way. Your coming across like a know it all and that is just plain tasteless. It does exactly what I said and there is plenty more to be said about it. Just because it doesn't fit within the parameters of your memory (from reading someone else's posts), does not mean I have no idea of what I'm talking about. I was honest and direct and for you to imply otherwise is totally out of line.

What other amps have you heard? This was asked earlier, but you have not replied. It is not tasteless to ask for a qualification of someone's experience, especially when seemingly misguided comments are made. Boomana's comments come from empirical experience, as opposed to simple specifications. What other amps have you heard? The simple fact that an amp can drive a headphone to ear bleeding levels says nothing. I have tried all my headphones in various systems including portable amps and with respect to volume, all of the could drive them to the point that would cause hearing damage or driver damage.

 

[milkpowder]

My M-Audio Transit can drive the HD650 to more than loud enough levels, but it sounds pretty poor compared to what the HD650 is really capable of. Volume isn't everything.

I haven't compared the two before, but according to what has been said in this thread, a Gilmore Lite should sound better than a Pico or AE-2? Surely current and voltage isn't everything, or is it?

 

[cp8ir]

Interesting thread. I'll be spending my holidays listening between a Hornet and a cheaper home/non-battery Rockhopper Pimeta... not sure what to expect, especially with a novice's ears.