RSA * Dark Star * SE and balanced, dual chassis amp designed to drive most any HP . .

[fdhfdy]

how big is the chasises?

 

[Skylab]

Very approximately, 12" w x 9" D, and the whole stack is 7" high.

 

[Audio-Omega]

Skylab, let us know how it sounds with Sennheiser HD800.  

 

[Skylab]

Will do. I will be testing it with the HD-800 and T1, as well as the HE-6 and LCD-2.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

sachu, my advice is to quit while you are, er, behind. Criticising kit you havent even heard is an easy trap to fall into, much harder to get oneself out of.

 
People with no electronics experience regularly comment on how gear is built, without question... Why should someone WITH experience with very similar circuits be excluded from offering an opinion? 
 
 
 
I wonder how this amp will compare to something like a Krell S-300i for example. We could start with the Krell being $500 less expensive to start, having an Ipod Dock, being a class-A circuit (there is no way on earth the dark-star runs class-A at full rated power without finned heat-sinks) and probably being easier to resell for a larger percentage of the original cost. The Dark-Star was made by Ray and that's about all it has going for it. 
 
If one were to allow $3000 of second hand gear the options for truly butt-kicking speaker amplifiers and preamps will take you FAR. Heck, most people on head-fi already own a headphone amp that would make an outstanding preamp - which leaves you $3000 to spend on a speaker amp.
 
If this were a krell product, it would not get a second look on head-fi. Actually, I dont think the krell I called out above has ever been mentioned on head-fi. OTOH, if you want to sell your gear (it happens) wouldn't you like the option of selling to a speaker guy as well as a headphone guy? 

 

[Syan25]

I'm kind of saddened by the way this thread has turned. Let's keep an open mind about how it can perform until reviews come in...

 

[daveDerek]

Quote:

Will do. I will be testing it with the HD-800 and T1, as well as the HE-6 and LCD-2.

Rob, i understand that you won't have the time to fully test it with all of your cans, but would it be possible to at least get a sense of how it sounds to you driving the other cans in your collection, especially the dx1000, the r10 (noted to be finicky about amps), and the k340 (more difficult to drive than many phones).
 


Quote:

 
People with no electronics experience regularly comment on how gear is built, without question... Why should someone WITH experience with very similar circuits be excluded from offering an opinion? 
 
I wonder how this amp will compare to something like a Krell S-300i for example. We could start with the Krell being $500 less expensive to start, having an Ipod Dock, being a class-A circuit (there is no way on earth the dark-star runs class-A at full rated power without finned heat-sinks) and probably being easier to resell for a larger percentage of the original cost. The Dark-Star was made by Ray and that's about all it has going for it. 
 
If one were to allow $3000 of second hand gear the options for truly butt-kicking speaker amplifiers and preamps will take you FAR. Heck, most people on head-fi already own a headphone amp that would make an outstanding preamp - which leaves you $3000 to spend on a speaker amp.
 
If this were a krell product, it would not get a second look on head-fi. Actually, I dont think the krell I called out above has ever been mentioned on head-fi. OTOH, if you want to sell your gear (it happens) wouldn't you like the option of selling to a speaker guy as well as a headphone guy? 

Ari, as usual you make some good points. i think what gets folks upset is this animosity towards Ray which seems personal. it's fair game to have questions about how something is built, or what it costs, or not to like how it sounds to you, but at least give it a fair listen before saying it sounds bad, especially when other experienced listeners who've heard something have a favorable impression of it sonically. Ray's products seem to work quite reliably, and speaking of reliability there is no one better about getting you his product (you contact him, send payment, and a few days later you have the unit), something some other vendors seem unable to do.
 

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Rob, i understand that you won't have the time to fully test it with all of your cans, but would it be possible to at least get a sense of how it sounds to you driving the other cans in your collection, especially the dx1000, the r10 (noted to be finicky about amps), and the k340 (more difficult to drive than many phones).
 

The K340 are a good suggestion, thanks - I will try those. But I don't think it makes sense to use an uber powerful amp like the DarkStar to drive high-sensitivity/efficient cans like the DX1000 or R10, so I will almost certainly not spend the time on those.

 

[dminches]

Quote:

i think what gets folks upset is this animosity towards Ray which seems personal

I really don't get this part unless I am in dark about stuff.  In the 3 times I have spoken to Ray he has been very friendly, courteous and helpful.  His products seem reasonably priced.  He sticks to his stated build time, etc.  If people have personal issues with Ray they should take them directly to Ray and not in public forums. That seems like the proper thing to do.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Ari, as usual you make some good points. i think what gets folks upset is this animosity towards Ray which seems personal. it's fair game to have questions about how something is built, or what it costs, or not to like how it sounds to you, but at least give it a fair listen before saying it sounds bad, especially when other experienced listeners who've heard something have a favorable impression of it sonically. Ray's products seem to work quite reliably, and speaking of reliability there is no one better about getting you his product (you contact him, send payment, and a few days later you have the unit), something some other vendors seem unable to do.
 

Id actually bet that the amp sounds nice. Sachu also said that the chip used was one of the best he had tried. The "grand-daddy" of all gain-clone amps, the gaincard, was very well regarded until people realized it could be knocked off for about $100. Im just saying that I doubt its a good deal. Not that most things in audio are, but at least some are easy to recover your money from. 
 
Quote:

The K340 are a good suggestion, thanks - I will try those. But I don't think it makes sense to use an uber powerful amp like the DarkStar to drive high-sensitivity/efficient cans like the DX1000 or R10, so I will almost certainly not spend the time on those.

The gain is only 11. People use amps with gain of 11 on low impedance headphones all the time. The Woo-2 and Raptor have gain in the 13-20 range and people run low impedance headphones on them all the time. A bunch of portable amp reviews say that those little amps sound best on the high gain setting, 11 in many cases.
 
You WILL however run into problems: The power amp chips used are exceptionally noisy. The vast majority of this kind of chip are noisy, Its just how they are. Being a balanced circuit, random noise is WORSE than datasheet by 6db. Im betting for really bad SNR with sensitive headphones. 
 
I know, I know, the dark star was not designed for efficient low impedance headphones but for medium impedance orthos with very low sensitivity. But Krell used to demo their amps with a set of RS-1 hooked directly to the speaker outputs to demonstrate how quiet their circuitry was. Its sort of a parlor trick, but it demonstrates noise (or lack thereof) VERY quickly. 

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

I've had my HR-2 burning in for two days so far and I've got no complaints with heat - it is cool as a cucumber. Sounds terrific too...
as far as I know - the HR-2 is a Class A amp as advertised on the website.


 
 

I see you have no grasp of what Class A means.  A cool running Class A amp doesn't exist since they have to, by definition, be very inefficient.  Any claims of the HR-2 being run in Class A are either a lie or Ray simply doesn't know any better.  I'm open to both suggestions. 
 


Quote:

Birgir, I, for one, am not familiar with 'what Rudi is trying to hide'. could you please clarify your statement.
that second sentence quoted above is certainly not in an of itself a logical conclusion.
 

Capacitor coupled SS amp that is quad mono so it drifts like mad and has to be extensively shielded so it doesn't pick up noise.  Absolutely the worst of the worst money can buy.  Heck, I have a germanium SS amp here made in the early 60's that performs better than that and is far better built. 
 

 
Quote:

People with no electronics experience regularly comment on how gear is built, without question... Why should someone WITH experience with very similar circuits be excluded from offering an opinion?

 
Exactly.  Any claims of this being "awesome" are made by people who just look at the fancy casework and have no idea just how much crap that circuit and PSU really are.  I've been looking at this for a while now and I do think this is the worst thing Ray has ever made and considering just how bad the A-10 is that says quite a bit.  One just has to look at the datasheet for the OPA541 to see how horrible a choice it is for audio use and something like the LM3886 would be a far better choice.  Still that would just make it a cheap gainclone amp that would be murdered by something properly designed like the Krell Ari suggested or something like a Firstwatt F5.  I feel very sorry for anybody who would buy this and I'm very interested to see this measured in full.  I'm sure some of the claims Ray is making will not stand up to scrutiny...
 

 

[dminches]

Quote:

Exactly.  Any claims of this being "awesome" are made by people who just look at the fancy casework and have no idea just how much crap that circuit and PSU really are.  I've been looking at this for a while now and I do think this is the worst thing Ray has ever made

I find it interesting that you rip into people for saying the unit is great based on them looking at it but then you turn around and call it crap based on YOU looking at it.  Have you actually heard this amp?

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

I find it interesting that you rip into people for saying the unit is great based on them looking at it but then you turn around and call it crap based on YOU looking at it.  Have you actually heard this amp?

Casework =/= electrical components...

 

[Skylab]

From reading the datasheet of the OPA541, it's very clear the chip was chosen for power and not for its noise performance.  The OPA541 is noisier at low power than it is at higher power - at 100mW output the THD+N is 2% at 10 kHz, and 3% at 20kHz.  That doesn't seem ideal.  At 5W, however, THD+N remains below 1% in the audio band. The OPA541 appears to be happier when outputting a lot of power.  That's the purpose of this particular amp.  I don't see where it has been suggested that it be considered a "one size fits all" headphone amp. As such, it seems to me that on paper at least, this amp is going to be best used for its purpose of driving demanding headphones like the HE-6.  However, I have never believed in listening to paper. 
 
Also, I cannot find any claim by RSA that the DarkStar operates ALL in Class A.  I'm not sure where that is coming from. My understanding is it is a Class A/B amp, and as such, will operate in Class A up to a point, like all Class A/B designs.  The amp doesn't say "Class A" anywhere on it, and the RSA web site doesn't say it either.
 
I think people have the right to expect a lot if they are paying $3K for a headphone amp.  And I plan to review the DarkStar with that in mind.  But I don't intend to judge it for things it's not purporting to be. 
 
And lastly, regarding the casework - there is nothing wrong with liking nice casework.  It is obvious to anyone who takes a good look at the DarkStar that you are paying significant money for the casework, irrespective of the sound of the amp one way or the other.  People with no interest in investing in the aesthetics of their audio gear are likely not even considering this amp, I would imagine.

 

[sachu]

Quote:

Exactly.  Any claims of this being "awesome" are made by people who just look at the fancy casework and have no idea just how much crap that circuit and PSU really are.  I've been looking at this for a while now and I do think this is the worst thing Ray has ever made and considering just how bad the A-10 is that says quite a bit.  One just has to look at the datasheet for the OPA541 to see how horrible a choice it is for audio use and something like the LM3886 would be a far better choice.  Still that would just make it a cheap gainclone amp that would be murdered by something properly designed like the Krell Ari suggested or something like a Firstwatt F5.  I feel very sorry for anybody who would buy this and I'm very interested to see this measured in full.  I'm sure some of the claims Ray is making will not stand up to scrutiny...
 

There are differing view points when it comes to the OPA541 and the LM series ( believe carlosfm used to like the OPA a fair bit). At least from what i remember back when i had just started into DIY and when i had truly inexperienced ears. I do know my stereo 7 channel amp used LM3886 for the tweeter channels and LM4780 in bridged mode for the mids and woofers. OPA541 was for middle channel when used in discrete home theater mode, so was largely unused for the most part.
 
Am sure a search now will still birng up those threads on the virtues of the different chipamps which were all the rage back in the early 2000s. But in the same vein you won't see even one claiming one of these amps to be a "high end " audiophile amplifier.
THey are great for building something for your garage or for a nice project to do with your kid or some such amplifier.
 
Positioning this as mid end  ( for instance: my magnepan + plinius class a amp system is what i deem mid end ) let alone high end is tantamount to"pulling the wool over the eyes (ears in this case)" of oneself and one's customers in my opinion.
 
And you don't need a class A amp, let alone a class A krell or a pass labs to beat the crap out of gainclone amp..even when i was building these gainclones, i had no illusions of grandeur to their abilities..and was resoundly proven when put head to head against an N-channel class AB amp.
 
Class A is a whole another deal in itself and then when done right..its ungodly beautiful to listen to and all else doesn't compare.
 
And you don't need to be an audio engineer  (surprise surprise 

) to design an amp using these chips. Heck, a high school freshman can build one from scratch from the datasheet or by visiting one of the many webrings dedicated to gainclone amps.