Roon Optimization Guide For Increased Sound Quality

[dsyzling]

I swap between Device volume and Fixed volume - I can't really say I hear much difference - Roon on both claim DSP volume control at 0db. I'm using my ipad to control by dac/streamer end point (Hugo2/2Go) but using the volume control on the amp (Hugo 2 fixed volume). This has been working fine and whether I choose device or fixed volume for Hugo 2 it's always set at 0db in Roon. One evening I tried streaming from youtube to the 2Go over bluetooth, I had to adjust the volume on the ipad device. Now whenever I turn on the dac and Roon my volume is set to -29db when I use Fixed. I've swapped to device volume and adjusted the volume back to 0db, powered off, powered back on (with device volume) and it stayed at 0db. However, when I return to Fixed volume, Roon is always applying a -29db dsp volume adjustment - I thought that was contrary to what Fixed volume should do.

Has anyone seen this behaviour? I saw a discussion of a 'feature' they added which had issues with syncing the volume control on an iOS device with Roon which annoyed a high number of users.

 

[TDHEAD]

Preordered one yesterday as my very first Nucleus. I have been running Roon server/core off an old desktop that I keep running all the time, mostly just for Roon. Love the price point here. Much more competitive with building your own NUC but plug and play.

On a related topic, Roon Nucleus One. I currently have a Nucleus with a 1 TB m.2 SSD mounted internally.
I am expecting delivery of the Roon Nucleus One tomorrow. I doing some additional reading I found a couple of potentially disappointing things out I was not expecting since this is their latest hardware offering. I may be missing something but here is what I understand. The Nucleus one does not have tany of the latest chip sets, in fact its chip set is several generation back (Intel Celeron) ???processor.
In addition you can no longer install M.2 SSD like Samsung Evos . Rather it only houses a 2.5 SATA drive . The Samsung 870 QVO I purchased has read/write speeds of 560mb/s??? which is light years slower than the 970 EVO M.@ ssd which is more like 3500mb/s. If I understand this correctly than how could this be improved for the Audiophile community??? Also if that is the case and I am not missing some other architecture improvement than I probably won’t even open the box and just send it back and research Plan B??? Anyone out there have better info?


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[TDHEAD]

This guide assumes you have already downloaded and installed Roon Core/Server 2.0 on your source and Roon Endpoint version 2.0 on a Mac or PC.

• Access the settings menu by clicking on the hamburger menu (three horizontal lines) on the top left of the Roon app. Configure the following:
  • Disable the default music folder (not the folder where your music is stored. Roon sometimes automatically adds the default system music folder and this is the one we want to disable)
    • Settings > Storage > kebab menu (three vertical dots) > Disable
  • Set Background audio analysis to Off
    • Settings > Library > Background audio analysis > drop down menu > OFF
    • Note: changing this setting is vitally important for SQ, but also a PITA. You'll need to turn this back on after adding new media to your library then turn it off again.
  • Set On-Demand audio analysis to Off
    • Settings > Library > On-Demand audio analysis > drop down menu > OFF
    • Note: changing this setting is vitally important for SQ, but also a PITA. You'll need to turn this back on after adding new media to your library then turn it off again.
  • Disable all audio zones and devices except for the upstream device (DAC/Network Player) you will use to connect to your Roon Core.
    • Settings > Audio > Connected to Core > DAC/Network Player > Enable
    • Note: ASIO drivers for Windows and ASLA for Linux tend to yield the best audio performance. Though I have heard instances of WASAPI performing just as well in Windows with the right software.
  • Audio Device Settings
    • Settings > Audio > Connected to Core > DAC/Network Player > cogwheel menu
      • DSD playback strategy > Native or DSD over PCM (DoP)
      • MQA capabilities > off
      • Volume Control > Fixed
      • Resync Delay > 0ms
        • Note: if you click play and the first second or so of a track is cut off, increase in 50ms increments until it plays. Some DACs need a few milliseconds to sync with the source before initializing playback.
    • Show Advanced > Drop down menu >
      • Set your DAC's max sample rate for PCM
      • Set your DAC's native bits per sample for PCM (bit depth)
      • Set your DAC's max sample rate for DSD
      • Enable MQA decoder > No
      • Use maximum Buffer size > No
      • Power of 2 Hardware Buffer Size > No or 0
  • Disable DSP and remove filters (don't worry, you can always add these back).
    • Home (main music playback bar at the bottom) > Speaker Icon (lower right) > Click the Sine Wave/hairpin looking thingy (this should open the DSP menu)
      • From the DSP menu:
        • Headroom Management > Disabled
        • Sample rate Conversion > Disabled
        • Parametric EQ > Remove Filter (top right)
        • Convolution > Remove Filter
        • Crossfeed > Remove Filter
        • Audeze Presets > Remove Filter
        • Note: it is important to remove these filters, not just disable them.

The rest of the optimizations will be done at the hardware, BIOS and operating system level. That will be covered in the "Building a Custom Digital Source" thread.

You can also use these optimizations as a litmus test of sorts. If you change these settings and can't hear a difference in your rig. Leave this thread and don't give "optimizing" Roon another thought.

Hope this helps!

-lj

On a related topic, Roon Nucleus One. I currently have a Nucleus with a 1 TB m.2 SSD mounted internally.
I am expecting delivery of the Roon Nucleus One tomorrow. I doing some additional reading I found a couple of potentially disappointing things out I was not expecting since this is their latest hardware offering. I may be missing something but here is what I understand. The Nucleus one does not have tany of the latest chip sets, in fact its chip set is several generation back (Intel Celeron) ???processor.
In addition you can no longer install M.2 SSD like Samsung Evos . Rather it only houses a 2.5 SATA drive . The Samsung 870 QVO I purchased has read/write speeds of 560mb/s??? which is light years slower than the 970 EVO M.@ ssd which is more like 3500mb/s. If I understand this correctly than how could this be improved for the Audiophile community??? Also if that is the case and I am not missing some other architecture improvement than I probably won’t even open the box and just send it back and research Plan B??? Anyone out there have better info?


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[skeeb23]

Late to the party here...or I suppose it's never too late for things like this. I just want to thank the OP for this. I adjusted all the settings last night. I'm not saying I notice a huge difference, but, I do feel like I'm getting a more natural sound to my music now. Either way, I like the set it and forget kind of mentality this gives.

 

[dbturbo2]

Roon has just updated their software with OPRA, an open source repository for headphone EQ curves.

https://blog.roonlabs.com/opra-makes-optimized-headphone-tuning-accessible-to-everyone/

 

[BS0D]

Curiosity… anyone still use V1.8 (build 1126)?

 

[TheR0v3r]

This.

As a rule, I tend not to recommend split Roon processing/delivery configurations like yours because most people's home networks are either configured poorly or they lack practical knowledge as to how to control the variables in between. That said, I still think split streamer solutions like yours have among the highest performance ceilings of any digital source configuration, especially with Roon. But it shifts complexity and introduces a whole host of different problems in between processing and playback devices such as broadcast isolation, switch noise, latency, galvanically isolated Ethernet versus fiber, etc., etc. There are plenty of tricks like using media converters (Ethernet-to-fiber, USB-to-fiber, etc.), but I've never liked what these do to the sound.

I’m running a split configuration and am in the process of upgrading my network setup. One of the things that adds to the complexity is how different protocols react to changes in the networking hardware. I’ve set things up so that I can switch between different protocols as I do changes in the hardware configuration to help me understand the results.

Roon RAAT seems to be one of the more sensitive protocols (maybe more ”chatter”?) to switch noise, galvanic isolation etc. IF you’re running a split setup, have gone through the excellent ”Roon Optimization Guide” and aren’t getting the results you want, try upgrading your hardware configuration.

P.S. And upgrading doesn’t mean more expensive, it means better.

 

[Bones13]

So far, I found that simply resetting the network at night worked well enough for me.

However, I will try to learn how to set up a separate VLAN for the Roon part of the network. I will look into whether or not that is the best way to keep the thrashing of the Roon network away from the regular network, and vise versa. It will take some learning to get it right I think.

Are any of you guys network engineers? I would love at least a description of what kind of subnet to set up. I do have an EdgeLite router that should allow that kind of configuration. I suspect I will need extra physical ethernet connection to run a switch/hub out of one of the Router ethernet slots that connects only to the NUC running ROCK, and the Renderer for my DAC. Then partitioning a VLAN that only runs those 2 devices with fixed addresses.

 

[lairpost]

So far, I found that simply resetting the network at night worked well enough for me.

However, I will try to learn how to set up a separate VLAN for the Roon part of the network. I will look into whether or not that is the best way to keep the thrashing of the Roon network away from the regular network, and vise versa. It will take some learning to get it right I think.

Are any of you guys network engineers? I would love at least a description of what kind of subnet to set up. I do have an EdgeLite router that should allow that kind of configuration. I suspect I will need extra physical ethernet connection to run a switch/hub out of one of the Router ethernet slots that connects only to the NUC running ROCK, and the Renderer for my DAC. Then partitioning a VLAN that only runs those 2 devices with fixed addresses.

A relatively easy test to understand the impact of a separate vlan for Roon would be to simply disconnect everything else besides Roon required devices. You now have a dedicated vlan for Roon. If you find there's an improvement in sound, head down the path of a 2nd vlan, but if you don't you've saved yourself the hassle.

P.S. Network engineer for the past 3 decades, retired. For my setup there simply isn't enough broadcast traffic to warrant a separate vlan for audio. I don't want to discourage you learning how to setup one for yourself though...

 

[Hubert481]

...
The rest of the optimizations will be done at the hardware, BIOS and operating system level. That will be covered in the "Building a Custom Digital Source" thread.

...

can you post the link therefore in the first thread - cannot find it - thank you

 

[Currawong]

I swap between Device volume and Fixed volume - I can't really say I hear much difference - Roon on both claim DSP volume control at 0db. I'm using my ipad to control by dac/streamer end point (Hugo2/2Go) but using the volume control on the amp (Hugo 2 fixed volume). This has been working fine and whether I choose device or fixed volume for Hugo 2 it's always set at 0db in Roon. One evening I tried streaming from youtube to the 2Go over bluetooth, I had to adjust the volume on the ipad device. Now whenever I turn on the dac and Roon my volume is set to -29db when I use Fixed. I've swapped to device volume and adjusted the volume back to 0db, powered off, powered back on (with device volume) and it stayed at 0db. However, when I return to Fixed volume, Roon is always applying a -29db dsp volume adjustment - I thought that was contrary to what Fixed volume should do.

Has anyone seen this behaviour? I saw a discussion of a 'feature' they added which had issues with syncing the volume control on an iOS device with Roon which annoyed a high number of users.

Since I saw this, I thought I'd chime in with some useful information:
Fixed volume tells Roon that the device does not have a volume control, and disables Roon's digital volume control. This is the correct setting for most DACs and DDCs.
Device volume is for USB-connected devices that can receive signals to tell it to change its internal volume. If a device doesn't have an internal volume control, changing Roon's volume level will have no effect. If not for use with your computer's internal audio, this works with some USB dongle DACs, such as the Woo Audio Tube Mini, and maybe others that are designed to be hooked up to a phone and controlled by the phone's volume adjustment.
DSP volume uses Roon's digital volume control, which is audibly lossy.

If you're having an issue with an iPhone or iPad and the volume level of a device, plug it in, and BEFORE opening Roon, adjust the volume level with the side buttons to max with the device connected. Make sure it's adjusting the device volume, not just the alert volume, which you may need to change in the Settings app. THEN open Roon, and it should be back to normal.

 

[lairpost]

Since I saw this, I thought I'd chime in with some useful information:
Fixed volume tells Roon that the device does not have a volume control, and disables Roon's digital volume control. This is the correct setting for most DACs and DDCs.
Device volume is for USB-connected devices that can receive signals to tell it to change its internal volume. If a device doesn't have an internal volume control, changing Roon's volume level will have no effect. If not for use with your computer's internal audio, this works with some USB dongle DACs, such as the Woo Audio Tube Mini, and maybe others that are designed to be hooked up to a phone and controlled by the phone's volume adjustment.
DSP volume uses Roon's digital volume control, which is audibly lossy.

If you're having an issue with an iPhone or iPad and the volume level of a device, plug it in, and BEFORE opening Roon, adjust the volume level with the side buttons to max with the device connected. Make sure it's adjusting the device volume, not just the alert volume, which you may need to change in the Settings app. THEN open Roon, and it should be back to normal.

I prefer Device volume for the much finer grain control but I don't find Roon DSP to be audibly lossy. On one very high gain device I have to attenuate -20dB with no audible loss. Here's some data to show that it's not lossy, see link PDF doc. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...truth-about-dsp-volume-control-in-roon.23552/

 

[TheAttorney]

I prefer Device volume for the much finer grain control but I don't find Roon DSP to be audibly lossy. On one very high gain device I have to attenuate -20dB with no audible loss. Here's some data to show that it's not lossy, see link PDF doc. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...truth-about-dsp-volume-control-in-roon.23552/

I, and many other audiophiles, do find that roon's DSP is audibly lossy. The fact that ASR has "proven" that Roon's DSP volume control is better that any analogue volume control in the world - is for me ample reason to stay well clear of roon's DSP .

I really wish it wasn't so, because roon's DSP is functionally excellent, but I can only hear what I hear.

Fixed Volume should have a very slight SQ advantage over Device Volume, but the difference is very small.
Both on my Grimm MU2 all-in-one (with analogue volume control), and on my previous MU1 streamer (with digital volume control), I could barely tell the difference between Device and Fixed volume, so currently use Device for its extra convenience. Both sounded significantly better than roon's DSP.

 

[lairpost]

I, and many other audiophiles, do find that roon's DSP is audibly lossy. The fact that ASR has "proven" that Roon's DSP volume control is better that any analogue volume control in the world - is for me ample reason to stay well clear of roon's DSP .

I really wish it wasn't so, because roon's DSP is functionally excellent, but I can only hear what I hear.

Fixed Volume should have a very slight SQ advantage over Device Volume, but the difference is very small.
Both on my Grimm MU2 all-in-one (with analogue volume control), and on my previous MU1 streamer (with digital volume control), I could barely tell the difference between Device and Fixed volume, so currently use Device for its extra convenience. Both sounded significantly better than roon's DSP.

It's just data, and was not produced by ASR rather by
DrCWO
Creator of rooExtend
Audiophile music lover,
Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering

I hope you all still figure out how to enjoy the music

 

[Hypops]

I, and many other audiophiles, do find that roon's DSP is audibly lossy. The fact that ASR has "proven" that Roon's DSP volume control is better that any analogue volume control in the world - is for me ample reason to stay well clear of roon's DSP .

I really wish it wasn't so, because roon's DSP is functionally excellent, but I can only hear what I hear.

Fixed Volume should have a very slight SQ advantage over Device Volume, but the difference is very small.
Both on my Grimm MU2 all-in-one (with analogue volume control), and on my previous MU1 streamer (with digital volume control), I could barely tell the difference between Device and Fixed volume, so currently use Device for its extra convenience. Both sounded significantly better than roon's DSP.

To be fair, many Roon users also find the SQ degraded when using remote devices, so I'm not sure how far to trust other people's opinions on the subject. Seems like one of those areas where it's best to trust one's own ears.

It's possible I don't have a revealing enough chain or that my ears are't up to the task, but I hear no difference between when Roon's DSP is on vs off (easy enough to check by having a profile with and without DSP with identical headroom settings). However, I do hear a difference between Roon's playback and other hi-res services, but that's more a matter of "different" rather than "better" IMO.