[noplsestar]

Clinical seems to be the prevailing traight i hear about with the LPGT series far more so than bright.

To be honest, I always wonder why people are stating that a DAP that shows what´s there (i.e. are brave enough to let the mids shine through in contrary to all those L or V shaped sounding DAPs, which are great too - I also have a Calyx M) are being called clinical or dry sounding etc.

I was in many recording studios in my life and in about 5 mastering studios during album productions and I never heard the recordings there to be "warm" sounding. The mids always has the most important information of the whole audio recording and the mastering engineers know that. Seldom, and just for controlling if there was enough details up top as well as enough subbass, the mixing engineers would switch to the "big" loudspeakers hanging behind the (neve) mixing console (btw. rest in peace dear Rupert Neve), but for most of the time we were listening over near field speakers.

But I derail. Coming back to the LPGT ti. It shows what´s on the recording. Some guys like that, some not. Or maybe you would want to listen during the day the LPGT ti and in the evening the Calyx M / WM-1Z / N8 / L&P P6 Pro ... BUT remember: There is information missing. Also if you listen through something into the chain like the hyped C9 amp from Cayin, then there is even more coloration. It´s nothing bad about that. I just laugh a bit sometimes when audiophiles state that they want to listen music "how the artists wanted it to sound" and at the same time they have a warm sounding source, a warm sounding cable, a warm sounding amp AND a warm sounding can. As said, to each one his/her own, we just need to know what we want and what we get if we add warm + warm + warm +warm, right? Of course this will be "full" sounding, "meaty" etc. but those who are listening that way, shouldn´t think that this is what the artist wanted.

Something to add concerning the mixing and mastering: The (good) engineers always try to mix it in a way so that the recording sounds "good" no matter what listening habits the end user has (most of them want bass hahaha). And they shall have it thereby they listen through "full" and "meaty" and yes, also "bassheavy" cans and equipment. BUT remember again: This is not the mix the engineers make. They make shure that as much information as possible is in the mids, because the recording should sound great out of a crappy earbuds and out of a crappy kitchen loudspeaker and out of a crappy car loudspeaker etc. AS WELL AS on high-end gear. But crappy earbuds and crappy kitchen loudspeakers and crappy car loudspeakers don´t have bass and don´t have highs. They only have (again: crappy sounding) mids. This is the most important part.

Where was I? Aaaaah, yeah, coming back to this thread´s topic: That´s why I love the Romi Audio amps. They don´t add anything that isn´t there. They let the music through, are transparent. Amen

Edit: Most of the time artists don´t care how the recording sounds, and I don´t mean that in a bad way at all. They don´t have time for that, they just "hear" their guitar play, their groove, their drum fill in, their pronunciation etc. and it´s good that they care more about that than the overall sound. That´s why a producer is there so that he/she can hear the whole thing and not just the smallest tiny (though important) details. Besides: Most of the musicians don´t have money anyways to afford something like we (happy) guys listen to. Sad but true. Isn´t that weird? That we hear their music in such an incredible good way most of them (except maybe Trent Reznor hahaha) won´t ever hear?

 

[eskamobob1]

To be honest, I always wonder why people are stating that a DAP that shows what´s there (i.e. are brave enough to let the mids shine through in contrary to all those L or V shaped sounding DAPs, which are great too - I also have a Calyx M) are being called clinical or dry sounding etc.

I was in many recording studios in my life and in about 5 mastering studios during album productions and I never heard the recordings there to be "warm" sounding. The mids always has the most important information of the whole audio recording and the mastering engineers know that. Seldom, and just for controlling if there was enough details up top as well as enough subbass, the mixing engineers would switch to the "big" loudspeakers hanging behind the (neve) mixing console (btw. rest in peace dear Rupert Neve), but for most of the time we were listening over near field speakers.

But I derail. Coming back to the LPGT ti. It shows what´s on the recording. Some guys like that, some not. Or maybe you would want to listen during the day the LPGT ti and in the evening the Calyx M / WM-1Z / N8 / L&P P6 Pro ... BUT remember: There is information missing. Also if you listen through something into the chain like the hyped C9 amp from Cayin, then there is even more coloration. It´s nothing bad about that. I just laugh a bit sometimes when audiophiles state that they want to listen music "how the artists wanted it to sound" and at the same time they have a warm sounding source, a warm sounding cable, a warm sounding amp AND a warm sounding can. As said, to each one his/her own, we just need to know what we want and what we get if we add warm + warm + warm +warm, right? Of course this will be "full" sounding, "meaty" etc. but those who are listening that way, shouldn´t think that this is what the artist wanted.

Something to add concerning the mixing and mastering: The (good) engineers always try to mix it in a way so that the recording sounds "good" no matter what listening habits the end user has (most of them want bass hahaha). And they shall have it thereby they listen through "full" and "meaty" and yes, also "bassheavy" cans and equipment. BUT remember again: This is not the mix the engineers make. They make shure that as much information as possible is in the mids, because the recording should sound great out of a crappy earbuds and out of a crappy kitchen loudspeaker and out of a crappy car loudspeaker etc. AS WELL AS on high-end gear. But crappy earbuds and crappy kitchen loudspeakers and crappy car loudspeakers don´t have bass and don´t have highs. They only have (again: crappy sounding) mids. This is the most important part.

Where was I? Aaaaah, yeah, coming back to this thread´s topic: That´s why I love the Romi Audio amps. They don´t add anything that isn´t there. They let the music through, are transparent. Amen

Edit: Most of the time artists don´t care how the recording sounds, and I don´t mean that in a bad way at all. They don´t have time for that, they just "hear" their guitar play, their groove, their drum fill in, their pronunciation etc. and it´s good that they care more about that than the overall sound. That´s why a producer is there so that he/she can hear the whole thing and not just the smallest tiny (though important) details. Besides: Most of the musicians don´t have money anyways to afford something like we (happy) guys listen to. Sad but true. Isn´t that weird? That we hear their music in such an incredible good way most of them (except maybe Trent Reznor hahaha) won´t ever hear?

I mean, that last part kinda undermines the point doesnt it? There are a lot of mixing artists and sound engineers here that fully admit to testing their stuff on car speakers as a final test. As for your comments about the LPGT though, thats kind fo the exact defenition of clinical. Detail above any and all else.

 

[noplsestar]

I mean, that last part kinda undermines the point doesnt it? There are a lot of mixing artists and sound engineers here that fully admit to testing their stuff on car speakers as a final test. As for your comments about the LPGT though, thats kind fo the exact defenition of clinical. Detail above any and all else.

I think you didn´t get the point. Of course we fully admit to testing our stuff in a car etc. The final test is (and I have done it too 7 o´clock in the morning after recording the whole night): Does the mix still sound good on a not so good system (like in car, in "my" car, but which sound I know by heart)? Meaning: Are enough mids there or too much bass etc.? Is the mix balanced etc. So I don´t see that there´s anything that undermines my point above.

Also I wouldn´t call the LPGT ti detailed but correct (don´t know how the LPGT sounds, only speaking about ti). Of course YMMV.

 

[eskamobob1]

Mind if I ask how you define analytical? Or example of sources you find to be such?

I ask because what you are describing is exactly what I call analytical. Detail before musicality, texture, or anything else.

And from all accounts I have seen the only sonic difference between LPGT and LPGT Ti is purely just amp power so I was being lazy and not writing the Ti, so we are on the same page there.

 

[normie610]

I think you didn´t get the point. Of course we fully admit to testing our stuff in a car etc. The final test is (and I have done it too 7 o´clock in the morning after recording the whole night): Does the mix still sound good on a not so good system (like in car, in "my" car, but which sound I know by heart)? Meaning: Are enough mids there or too much bass etc.? Is the mix balanced etc. So I don´t see that there´s anything that undermines my point above.

Also I wouldn´t call the LPGT ti detailed but correct (don´t know how the LPGT sounds, only speaking about ti). Of course YMMV.

It’s like photography, people are not always pleased with a picture that is true to the scene. For some people it might look dull and boring as opposed to the one that’s edited to add more warmth, pleasant tone, etc. while for others they like it as real as possible. I guess it’s back to each person’s preferences.

 

[subguy812]

To be honest, I always wonder why people are stating that a DAP that shows what´s there (i.e. are brave enough to let the mids shine through in contrary to all those L or V shaped sounding DAPs, which are great too - I also have a Calyx M) are being called clinical or dry sounding etc.

I was in many recording studios in my life and in about 5 mastering studios during album productions and I never heard the recordings there to be "warm" sounding. The mids always has the most important information of the whole audio recording and the mastering engineers know that. Seldom, and just for controlling if there was enough details up top as well as enough subbass, the mixing engineers would switch to the "big" loudspeakers hanging behind the (neve) mixing console (btw. rest in peace dear Rupert Neve), but for most of the time we were listening over near field speakers.

But I derail. Coming back to the LPGT ti. It shows what´s on the recording. Some guys like that, some not. Or maybe you would want to listen during the day the LPGT ti and in the evening the Calyx M / WM-1Z / N8 / L&P P6 Pro ... BUT remember: There is information missing. Also if you listen through something into the chain like the hyped C9 amp from Cayin, then there is even more coloration. It´s nothing bad about that. I just laugh a bit sometimes when audiophiles state that they want to listen music "how the artists wanted it to sound" and at the same time they have a warm sounding source, a warm sounding cable, a warm sounding amp AND a warm sounding can. As said, to each one his/her own, we just need to know what we want and what we get if we add warm + warm + warm +warm, right? Of course this will be "full" sounding, "meaty" etc. but those who are listening that way, shouldn´t think that this is what the artist wanted.

Something to add concerning the mixing and mastering: The (good) engineers always try to mix it in a way so that the recording sounds "good" no matter what listening habits the end user has (most of them want bass hahaha). And they shall have it thereby they listen through "full" and "meaty" and yes, also "bassheavy" cans and equipment. BUT remember again: This is not the mix the engineers make. They make shure that as much information as possible is in the mids, because the recording should sound great out of a crappy earbuds and out of a crappy kitchen loudspeaker and out of a crappy car loudspeaker etc. AS WELL AS on high-end gear. But crappy earbuds and crappy kitchen loudspeakers and crappy car loudspeakers don´t have bass and don´t have highs. They only have (again: crappy sounding) mids. This is the most important part.

Where was I? Aaaaah, yeah, coming back to this thread´s topic: That´s why I love the Romi Audio amps. They don´t add anything that isn´t there. They let the music through, are transparent. Amen

Edit: Most of the time artists don´t care how the recording sounds, and I don´t mean that in a bad way at all. They don´t have time for that, they just "hear" their guitar play, their groove, their drum fill in, their pronunciation etc. and it´s good that they care more about that than the overall sound. That´s why a producer is there so that he/she can hear the whole thing and not just the smallest tiny (though important) details. Besides: Most of the musicians don´t have money anyways to afford something like we (happy) guys listen to. Sad but true. Isn´t that weird? That we hear their music in such an incredible good way most of them (except maybe Trent Reznor hahaha) won´t ever hear?

I was going to say the similar thing in a couple of sentences. Mad props to you for your detailed response. The LPGT, as most of the Lotoo stuff I have heard is reference, zero coloration. I would not consider them bright.

 

[eskamobob1]

I was going to say the similar thing in a couple of sentences. Mad props to you for your detailed response. The LPGT, as most of the Lotion stuff I have heard is reference, zero coloration. I would not consider them bright.

I mean, yah, but reference and clinical, smooth, agressive, or textured can all go hand in hand. The 789 is a great example. Very reference, but also quite clinical and aggressive where as the p6p (or ahb2) is still quite reference, is smoother (or still clinical) and much much less agressive

 

[subguy812]

I mean, yah, but reference and clinical, smooth, agressive, or textured can all go hand in hand. The 789 is a great example. Very reference, but also quite clinical and aggressive where as the p6p (or ahb2) is still quite reference, is smoother (or still clinical) and much much less agressive

Terms such as clinical, conjure thoughts of stale and boring. I don't feel it is either of those two adjectives, or bright, I do feel they are a reviewers friend based on the reference signature.

 

[noplsestar]

Mind if I ask how you define analytical? Or example of sources you find to be such?

I ask because what you are describing is exactly what I call analytical. Detail before musicality, texture, or anything else.

And from all accounts I have seen the only sonic difference between LPGT and LPGT Ti is purely just amp power so I was being lazy and not writing the Ti, so we are on the same page there.

I mean, yah, but reference and clinical, smooth, agressive, or textured can all go hand in hand. The 789 is a great example. Very reference, but also quite clinical and aggressive where as the p6p (or ahb2) is still quite reference, is smoother (or still clinical) and much much less agressive

Interesting questions. I always ask myself what does „musicality“ mean? I know what it means but I don’t. Haha. Anyways, a source with more musicality has a bit more bass, maybe also a bit more highs. Which means: less mids. In other words: V-shaped, consumer friendly. And that is totally ok. It’s like what @normie610 wrote about picture quality. Some like it as it is, most people like it „colored“. I like both. Depends on my mood.

Aggressive is a DAP that pronounces the upper mids. Analytical is a DAP with elevated highs. Neither is the LPGT ti. It sounds balanced to me. In other words: It does not highlight anything. That might be boring, too clean or „dry“ to some audiophiles (same goes for the Romi Audio amps, that are also no bass monsters). But hey, I don’t even have a golden ear Ahahahaha, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[michaelc]

I would say this is decent enough to get power cord free. The volume knob is at around 11 o’clock on high gain for my normal listening level of pop, jazz, etc. It may not be as dynamic as my home setup with a Bakoon AMP-13R, but decent enough to be out of the house. And it is not burned-in yet since I just got it yesterday from Romi.

Connect both 3.5 & 4.4 out to 4.4 in?

What is the differences compare to 4.4 to 4.4?

 

[ChrisLN]

Connect both 3.5 & 4.4 out to 4.4 in?

What is the differences compare to 4.4 to 4.4?

Only the ground from the 3.5 was taken into the 4.4. I had the cable made that way some time ago not specifically for any particular DAP. It turned out that someone mentioned earlier the LPGT‘s 4.4 does have the ground pin connected so it wasn’t necessary.

 

[eskamobob1]

Interesting questions. I always ask myself what does „musicality“ mean? I know what it means but I don’t. Haha. Anyways, a source with more musicality has a bit more bass, maybe also a bit more highs. Which means: less mids. In other words: V-shaped, consumer friendly. And that is totally ok. It’s like what @normie610 wrote about picture quality. Some like it as it is, most people like it „colored“. I like both. Depends on my mood.

Aggressive is a DAP that pronounces the upper mids. Analytical is a DAP with elevated highs. Neither is the LPGT ti. It sounds balanced to me. In other words: It does not highlight anything. That might be boring, too clean or „dry“ to some audiophiles (same goes for the Romi Audio amps, that are also no bass monsters). But hey, I don’t even have a golden ear Ahahahaha, so take it with a grain of salt.

Honestly man, I flat out don't think you can attribute things like aggression, smoothness, or even timbral warmth to FR. For example, the 789 and AHB2 measure basicaly exactly the same and impart zero FR change while one is quite agressive and the other is just not.

The modi 3 and holo may are another great set if examples. 0 FR change on either (both measure absaluteky excelently), but the modi can be quite timbraly cold and flat while the may has much more body to the notes.

 

[eskamobob1]

Terms such as clinical, conjure thoughts of stale and boring. I don't feel it is either of those two adjectives, or bright, I do feel they are a reviewers friend based on the reference signature.

This, in my experience, seems to be a holdover from the lower end where clinical often is boring and sterile and warm is fun and impactful. Once you get up to higher end amps (a90 is realy close to being there but not quite) yoy start being able to have clinical but impactful and natural at the same time. No vestigial hint of aggressiveness that you get with the 789 (havent heard other thx topologies myself, but from what I've heard they tend to be similar)

 

[subguy812]

This, in my experience, seems to be a holdover from the lower end where clinical often is boring and sterile and warm is fun and impactful. Once you get up to higher end amps (a90 is realy close to being there but not quite) yoy start being able to have clinical but impactful and natural at the same time. No vestigial hint of aggressiveness that you get with the 789 (havent heard other thx topologies myself, but from what I've heard they tend to be similar)

Cool, we can agree to disagree on our personal definitions

 

[eskamobob1]

Cool, we can agree to disagree on our personal definitions

I cant delete the post on mobil. I mixed up people.