[Infoseeker]

Would such tubing have a significant effect on soundstage? I would rather prioritize soundstage.

 

[Mimouille]

Well, I suppose you and Tupac0306 will be able to give us all side by side visual comparisons soon; Have you ordered the ultimate yet?

Yes I have...my impressions are on the way as my ears seem to change all the time.

 

[jelt2359]

I doubt it, the sound tubes seem the same... The original SE5 bores and tubes are very thin. I am thinking he might have simplified the crossovers and thus require less wiring?

I suspect the new anti-reshell technology would lead to more wiring not less... Guess we'll know soon

 

[Mimouille]

I doubt there is actually anti reshell technology. Just psychological pressure. Maybe I am wrong.

 

[Mython]

I doubt there is actually anti reshell technology. Just psychological pressure. Maybe I am wrong.

 
 
"Cutting off the nose to spite the face" is an expression used to describe a needlessly self-destructive over-reaction to a problem: "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face" is a warning against acting out of pique, or against pursuing revenge in a way that would damage oneself more than the object of one's anger.

 

[Mimouille]

You know, some iem makers do not even offer reshell (like JH). Spiral Ear just wants to handle the reshell themselves. It is expensive but better than nothing.
 
Besides, I understand it if you do not want to have iems of your brand running aroung reshelled by others. They might sound the same, but you have no control over that, and if they sound like crap, it harms your image.

 

[Mython]

   
Besides, I understand it if you do not want to have iems of your brand running around reshelled by others. They might sound the same, but you have no control over that, and if they sound like crap, it harms your image.

 
 
1) yes, it's nice for the original maker, but that's just not realistic, so why not get over it?
 
2) No other CIEM maker, that I'm aware of, tries to exert such control over their customers and their competitors.
 
3) If the re-shell is not labeled with the original maker's brand name, then it has very little to do with their image. The person with a re-shell knows that it's not original - that's the risk/price they accept when buying a secondhand product. As for those original full-price SE5 customers who've sought re-shells for themselves, undertaken by a third-party, I find it rather interesting that at least one that I'm aware of considers the re-shell to have a distinct improvement in sound quality.
 
 
Ironically, SpiralEars negativity and control-freakery sends a very loud, clear, and negative image about SpiralEar themselves, and puts them at a far greater competitive disadvantage than if they choose to bite-the-bullet and let customers and competitors operate on an open and level playing field.
 
I can't speak for other head-fiers, but my discussion of the current negativity being expressed by SpiralEar isn't because I wish them any negativity, but rather because it is quite blatantly obvious that their negativity is harming themselves, potentially harming the best interests of customers, and potentially harming the atmosphere of the wider CIEM industry. It's sad to see such a respected maker taking such a negative and unrealistic stance towards the way of the CIEM world.
 
It is their prerogative if they wish to stubbornly continue with the negative approach, and I respect that, but if that happens, then it will equally be the right of CIEM customers to openly discuss the shortcomings of said approach.
 
 
Whatever will be will be.

 

[lee730]

I think a huge part of the issue with having Grzegrz reshell the IEMs is for people not within Europe. It's simply not feasible. Also the asking price for reshells is still rather steep. These things will always serve as an obstacle. I bet you that is impacting his overall bottom line in a huge way. It limits his market.

 

[Kunlun]

I doubt it's hurting Spiral Ears, head-fi is a tiny, tiny consideration for all that it seems like our posts are earthshaking things.

Silicone is different from acrylic in that a reshell always means remaking the ciem entirely, rather than a much more minor process of buffing down a few spots, etc. That's the reason for the high price. As for having a no 2nd party reshell policy, I think this does make sure you hear what gregorz intended. The 2nd hand market in ciems has always been a bit silly. Gregorz comes from the pro audio side with ACS. Pro musicians wear their "ears" (which is what ciems are called in the industry) as a serious piece of gear, not to sell later. That's what the se5 is tuned for. The new variant may be a concession to the prosumer market, but I doubt it's his main focus.

We may not like his policy, but there are sound reasons for it.

 

[Mython]

I doubt it's hurting Spiral Ears, head-fi is a tiny, tiny consideration for all that it seems like our posts are earthshaking things.
 

 
Oh, the bad feeling about the policy is not limited to Head-fi; I can assure you of that. There are many other forums, even in Poland itself.
 
 

Silicone is different from acrylic in that a reshell always means remaking the ciem entirely, rather than a much more minor process of buffing down a few spots, etc. That's the reason for the high price.

 
That's not a re-shell. That's just a 30-day re-fit.  Big difference.
 
 

 As for having a no 2nd party reshell policy, I think this does make sure you hear what gregorz intended.

 
Yes, I do appreciate that, and Grzegorz is entitled to only offer warranty on his own workmanship. He is also entitled to offer a re-shell service that ensures you hear exactly what he intended.
 
I don't think anyone has any issue with that.
 
An issue only arises when the company policy extends further than that, into threatening competitors and seeking to actively prevent customers and competitors from re-shelling SE CIEMs outside of SpiralEar lab.
 
Any company that offers re-shells of sufficient quality at a competitive price need not concern themselves with competitors, because their service will hold it's own ground against competitors. Trying to forcibly eliminate re-shell competition is something quite different, though. I would have thought Grzegorz would be thankful for Poland having an open market these days. You can't have your cake and eat it.
 

The 2nd hand market in ciems has always been a bit silly. Gregorz comes from the pro audio side with ACS. Pro musicians wear their "ears" (which is what ciems are called in the industry) as a serious piece of gear, not to sell later.

 
As I remarked in my post in the multi-CIEM thread, many SE-5 customers can only afford to purchase an SE-5 because they were able to sell their previous CIEMs from other vendors. That doesn't seem 'silly' to me, at all. It has therefore directly benefited both Grzegorz and some of his customers, that competing products were viable to sell and re-shell, on the open market. A secondhand market is not necessarily a bad thing for sales of new product - on the contrary, it can actually help to keep the market more fluid.
 
 

Gregorz comes from the pro audio side with ACS.

 
Yes, and Grzegorz learned much of his craft from ACS.
 
Although he has innovated some skills himself (and I respect his skill, incidentally), it's a good job they didn't seek to control him when he decided to leave and use the skills he learned at ACS, to start his own company, don't you think?
 
 
Speaking of ACS:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/753454/acs-encore-studio-new-5-driver-ciem
 
http://acscustom.com/uk/product/acs-encore-studio-custom/
 
(N.B. although it's 5-driver, it's 3-way)
 
 
.

 

[shotgunshane]

Acrylic reshells are complete rebuilds as well, along with color changes, art changes, socket changes, etc. Most reshellers send you the old shattered shell back for fun. Those worth their salt take extensive measurements of frequency response, phase, etc before and after, as well as physical measurements of tube length, etc.

Not sure why all this equates to silly. Many pro musicians, particularly those listed on a manufacturers web page, often get their in-ears free or very heavily discounted. I really can't blame anyone paying full price wanting to recoupe a portion of money in a second hand market.

 

[Kunlun]

I misspoke on the reshell versus refit for sure. I do think it's odd that people expect a company to facilitate a second hand market. Why would gregorz want people selling his se5 so they buy some hyped competitor? He has plenty of work, I really doubt a few audiophiles really amounts to a drop in the bucket of his market (oh no, an angry post, gasp!). Remember, it's not a big company with a big overhead. People will either save up for his ciem or he will sell a bunch to pro audio people and not care at all. On the pro audio side, a company will receive orders for (literally) several hundred at a go. Ciems may be a bit less, but that's the scale. It dwarfs whatever happens here. Gregorz will manage, somehow, cue sad violin music. It's not like people won't get hyped anyway, in spite of our righteous indignation.

If anything, there should be a super extra level of respect given to Noble and companies that have owner transfer services. Note that Noble doesn't have a pro musician focus, however. Rather than people being grateful, actually, people flipped about and were enraged at the idea that Noble would have a black friday sale. We could save money? GRRR! It was bizarre. You've heard the expression "this is why we can't have nice things"? Yeah.

 

[Mython]

.... I do think it's odd that people expect a company to facilitate a second hand market

 
 
No facilitation required.    (that's simply a nice, pragmatic, civil, optional thing for a company to offer, that reflects well upon the company and it's attitude towards its customers)
 
No obstruction required.
 
 
.

 

[nickie]

I misspoke on the reshell versus refit for sure. I do think it's odd that people expect a company to facilitate a second hand market. Why would gregorz want people selling his se5 so they buy some hyped competitor? He has plenty of work, I really doubt a few audiophiles really amounts to a drop in the bucket of his market (oh no, an angry post, gasp!). Remember, it's not a big company with a big overhead. People will either save up for his ciem or he will sell a bunch to pro audio people and not care at all. On the pro audio side, a company will receive orders for (literally) several hundred at a go. Ciems may be a bit less, but that's the scale. It dwarfs whatever happens here. Gregorz will manage, somehow, cue sad violin music. It's not like people won't get hyped anyway, in spite of our righteous indignation.

If anything, there should be a super extra level of respect given to Noble and companies that have owner transfer services. Note that Noble doesn't have a pro musician focus, however. Rather than people being grateful, actually, people flipped about and were enraged at the idea that Noble would have a black friday sale. We could save money? GRRR! It was bizarre. You've heard the expression "this is why we can't have nice things"? Yeah.

That's true but it's quite a dick move to go a great length to obstruct that possibility, even if such market is as tiny as you claim which obviously isn't.

 

[Kunlun]

That's true but it's quite a dick move to go a great length to obstruct that possibility, even if such market is as tiny as you claim which obviously isn't.

I'm not sure wanting his ciems to sound the way they were made to, even for a tiny part of his market is really a dick move. Plus, you shoukd ask yourself, why is he doing this? It's not to be a dick.